Copper Fouling in My Semi-New Rifle

[infuriatednoodle]

Hey guys, the name's Brendan.

But anywho, I got a question regarding copper fouling. I have a Savage 111 in 30-06 that I got last august and unfortunately I have only put about 100 rounds through it, maybe less. Just recently I looked at the muzzle and I noticed some definite copper fouling in the grooves of the rifling. I went to a gunsmith and didn't show him, but he said ahh yeah that stuff will come out with a lot of Hoppe's 9. He didn't seem to get the point that I've tried that many many times (I'm pretty religious on cleaning my guns). I'll attach a pic at the bottom of what it looks like, but it just seems that it is a lot of copper fouling for a little less than 100 rounds through it. Bad barrel maybe? I also shoot remington core-lokts, which I like very very much. How much copper fouling can decrease the accuracy to a noticeable amount? Or am I just being paranoid?

Much appreciated

 

[bhk]

Looks pretty normal and I wouldn't worry much about. A little copper coloring hurts nothing. When it gets to the point you want to remove it because accuracy is suffering, there are lots of products on the gun store shelves for copper removal that are much, much stronger and more effective than Hoppies. They will be labeled as such. Many of my rifles have such coloring with little buildup and my accuracy hasn't suffered at all. Every once in a while (after several hundred rounds, depending on the rifle) I will use a good solvent to remove it. Of course, some of returns after the first shot.

 

[alsaqr]

All copper bullets like the Barnes TSX leave a lot of copper fouling in the bore. It's hard to say how much fouling it takes to degrade accuracy; it depends on the gun. Some of my guns do not shoot well when all the fouling is removed from the bore.

 

[Tim the student]

Try something like Sweets or Butch's or Montana Extreme. Or, you could go with a foaming bore cleaner. Those might work better than Hoppes. I like those a lot better than Hoppes for cleaning out copper.

As far as accuracy degradation, shoot more and see. What may be true for my bore may not be the same for your bore.

IMO, a barrel isn't bad because it fouls. If it shoots like a AK shooting rusty milsurp ammo, then that is another thing. (No offense to you AK lovers )

 

[ogree]

Get yourself some wipe-out.

http://www.eabco.com/WipeOut.htm

This is the best copper remover I have used to date.

 

[osprey176]

Forget Hoppes for copper removal.Try Barnes CR 10.The stuff works great. Be sure to follow the directions and don't leave it in the barrel too long.If you use it about every 20 rounds,it should keep the fouling under control.Often a new barrel will foul quickly until it gets a couple hundred rounds through it.Also,don't for to clean your bronze brushes after using any copper cleaner, like brake cleaner,or else you will need to buy them by the dozen. Bronze is part copper.

 

[slowr1der]

I also use Wipe Out, and really like it. Is it the best cleaner out there? I have no idea as I've not tested anywhere close to all of them, but it's the best I've used.

 

[teumessian_fox]

In all honesty, if you ever plan on shooting the gun again, why bother removing incidental copper fouling? It's just going to repeat itself.

Unless it effects accuracy, which it doesn't, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[infuriatednoodle]

Thanks guys - I'm gonna go to Gander today and pick up some copper fouling stuff. I also am going to order Wipe Out and give that a try and see how it goes. I've been told from multiple people that it is no surprise in a new rifle barrel. Just wanted a second opinion.

 

[OldmanFCSA]

Use Sweets 7.62 or any other cleaner that uses amonia.
Do not use a brass brush or a brass tipped cleaning rod or the blueish color you see on your patches will be the brass dissolving not the copper coming out of the bore.
Stainless steel brushes are available at Brownells. They will not harm your barrel - you will do more damage by firing than by cleaning.
Also use a good carbon cleaner like bore-tech eliminator.
DO NOT use any oils that contain Teflon in your bore - it will destroy the accuracy of your barrel.
Have FUN.

 

[mustang_steve]

KG12 will cut right through that mess.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Infuriatednoodle. When your gunsmith said to use Hoppe's #9 he was talking about Hoppe's BENCH REST #9 Copper solvent. It WILL remove the copper fouling. Using a copper bore brush and following that with several patches. Repeat if necessary. Been using Bench Rest #9 for over 40 years and my 60+ year old Winchester 94 has NO copper fouling. Nor any of my other firearms.

 

[Rule3]

KG12 will cut right through that mess.

+1

KG 12 is the only product that significantly removes copper. Not just by what they say, but by independent tests. The other products remove some but KG12 is the best.

http://www.eabco.com/KG12Copper.html

 

[Deus Machina]

Also, for what it's worth, my rifles have seemed to get more fouled up in the first 100-250 rounds or so than after.

I figure that's why some people demand to break in a barrel, and firing it will burnish the barrel smooth after so many rounds.

 

[infuriatednoodle]

I remembered my friend had a can of KG12 sitting around and I decided to give it a try. Not long after using it, I noticed a huge difference, it cut through that copper like nothing.

DO NOT use any oils that contain Teflon in your bore - it will destroy the accuracy of your barrel.

Also, I'm just curious because I've never heard anyone say this before, but any idea of why it would be a bad idea to use something like Rem Oil that has Teflon in your bore?

 

[mustang_steve]

This was the fouling I had to clear...this was after 60 hours of immersion in Hoppes no 9.



I stuck a patch saturated in KG-12 on it overnight (about 10 hours)...it was gone. Yes, they were about as tall as the rifling.

For reference, that's the breech end of a barrel of a 9mm pistol. That copper was welded in so hard that I couldn't even chisel it out.

 

[Rule3]

Check Fr Frogs Pad tests of copper removal.

http://www.frfrogspad.com/cleaners.htm

 

[longdayjake]

Will KG-12 harm the barrel if left for too long?

 

[TheCracker]

Another vote for Sweets 7.62. Its quick compared to others I've tried. My rem 270 coppers up like crazy ESP with tue core lokt cheapies and 7.62 WORKS.

 

[mustang_steve]

longdayjake, it will destroy any bluing it touches, as bluing is technically a form of rust. It will also wreak havok on any copper/brass components, including ammo in the barrel...so clean the barrel thoroughly of the excess. Besides that, it's fine to use on the barrel.

KG12 will be very thick when 12 hours has passed. It takes about 6-7 flannel patches (the only thing I'll use) with Hoppes to cut through it all.

 

[JTHunter]

Several years ago, I heard of a setup where the rifle was place upright with the breech plugged shut with a cotton ball or plastic plug and a solution placed in from the muzzle. Then an electrode was inserted into the barrel from the muzzle and a clamp placed on the barrel to complete the circuit. It was essentially "reverse electoplating", driving the copper from the barrel and to the electrode stuck down the barrel. This was left overnight to finish the job.
Don't know the name of the system or if it is still around.

 

[ghostwriter]

my vote is for Warthog copper fouling cleaner. +1 on the wipeout as well. Both of these are industrial cleaners for people who shoot more in a day than most shoot in a month.
Doesn't matter if it comes back afer shooting again. As it settles down you might find less and less.
If it shoots accurate don't mess with it and limit the brush sessions to a minimum, saves the barrel.

 

[The Bushmaster]

OCD1...The Frogspad tests are corrupted because he used Hoppe's #9 solvent and not HOPPE'S BENCHREST #9. There is quite a difference in the two. One is a nitro solvent and the other is a copper removing solvent.

 

[Rule3]

Perhaps the Hoppes Copper Benchrest is better than #9 but I would not consider the test "corrupted".

Here is another test.with Hoppes Copper solvent

http://www.cleenboreusa.com/kg/kg-12testresults.asp

With Bench rest:

http://www.weite.us/Documents/Jim O...DF Catalog/Test Results KG Copper Remover.pdf

 

[The Bushmaster]

Andthe bores on all of my firearms have no copper fouling using Hoppe's Benchrest #9.

As mentioned in one of the articles...It doesn't matter which one you use. They all remove copper. Though I would be a bit worrysome about a chemical that "etched" the bullet rather then desolved the copper. Just my [old] thinking.