Labyrinth666
Member
I have found some cheap ammo in 7.62x54 and it has corrosive berdan primers. My question is, is corrosive ammo bad, and if so, why?
Corrosive ammo, why is it bad?
- Thread starter Labyrinth666
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mljdeckard
Member
Older primers used compounds which, if left uncleaned after shooting, will quickly pit and rust the bore.
kingpin008
Member
It's only bad if you don't clean the barrel after shooting it. Basically, the salts in the residue attract and hold moisture, which then speeds up rust and corrosion of the metal in the bore.
A quick rinse with soapy water takes care of it, though.
A quick rinse with soapy water takes care of it, though.
slabuda
Member
Its bad because its corrosive and can pit your barrel if you do not clean the rifle right after shooting.
If you give a good clean right after shooting it shouldnt badly affect the life of your barrel.
If you go to a range and cant field strip/clean there at least shoot some powder blast followed by some CLP or similar though it and clean when oyu get home.
If you give a good clean right after shooting it shouldnt badly affect the life of your barrel.
If you go to a range and cant field strip/clean there at least shoot some powder blast followed by some CLP or similar though it and clean when oyu get home.
five.five-six
Member
Labyrinth666 said:
because it corrodes stuff.... in your gun
in a bolt it's not a big deal, bring a bottle of windex with you to the range, a few squirts down the barrel while the barrel is hot, then a dry patch and then a oiled patch and you are GTG, just clean as normal when you have time after that
in a gas gun.... well it's a lot more work
five.five-six
Member
it is best to use somthign with water in it to disolve the salt, then oil
It is not "bad", but the salt released when the primer is fired promotes rust in gun barrels and around the breech if the gun is not cleaned very soon after shooting. Some folks find no problem in doing so, and enjoy shooting inexpensive military surplus ammunition with corrosive primers. And in dry climates, the shooter can postpone cleaning for a day or more. But in a humid Washington area summer, I have seen a new barrel rust in less than a half hour after firing corrosive primed ammunition.
Up to about 1935, nearly all primers* were "corrosive", using potassium chlorate which becomes potassium chloride (akin to sodium chloride, common table salt) when it gave up its oxygen molecule in firing. The old primers were very stable and many people, especially the military, were slow in taking up the new non-corrosive primers for that reason.
To see the problem with corrosive primers, one needs only to look at the bores of many WWII military weapons or sporting arms made before the 1930's.
*The few that were not were usually "mercuric" using mercury fulminate as a priming compound. Those primers did not release salt, but they released free mercury, which made brass cases soft and unreloadable.
Jim
Up to about 1935, nearly all primers* were "corrosive", using potassium chlorate which becomes potassium chloride (akin to sodium chloride, common table salt) when it gave up its oxygen molecule in firing. The old primers were very stable and many people, especially the military, were slow in taking up the new non-corrosive primers for that reason.
To see the problem with corrosive primers, one needs only to look at the bores of many WWII military weapons or sporting arms made before the 1930's.
*The few that were not were usually "mercuric" using mercury fulminate as a priming compound. Those primers did not release salt, but they released free mercury, which made brass cases soft and unreloadable.
Jim
slabuda
Member
Really? even with the powder blast first? I dont shoot corrosive as far as I know. Unless modern wolf is corrosive but I dont believe it is.
I know the BP guys use soapy water but at a range that may not be the easiest to get to. WHy I suggested powder blast followed by the clp. If Im wrong I apologize for false info.
five.five-six
Member
yes, oil and solvents won't disolve salt... get a cup and some rock salt, try it at home.. water is the key... some like windex for the magical properties of the ammonia in it
IdahoLT1
Member
It's the only thing I've seen make an SKS jam. When I was younger I shot 200rds of corrosive ammo through my SKS. I didn't know it was corrosive, but it was berdan primed and steel core ammo. I didn't clean it and 2 months later the gun wouldn't shoot properly and jammed a lot. I tore it apart and found the gas tube/chamber along with the barrel was pitted. I donated the gun to my favorite shop and chalked it up as a live and learn experience. I pulled the remaining bullets and I'm in the process of reloading them.
So if you shoot corrosive ammo through autoloader, make sure you clean everything thoroughly, not just the barrel.
So if you shoot corrosive ammo through autoloader, make sure you clean everything thoroughly, not just the barrel.
ccsniper
member
Cause it is corrosive. It corrodes things. And causes corrosion.
Yeah a Kind of a jerk satement but the title answers the question.
ccsniper
member
The reason why most military surplus is corrosive is because the primers tend to last longer than non corrosive primers. I believe most former com bloc countries still use it for their ammo IIRC.
nwilliams
Member
It's not bad, just make sure you clean the gun soon after you're done shooting it.
Just keep in mind that some corrosive ammo is ok and some of it is just bad because it's manufactured poorly. Well manufactured corrosive ammo can shoot just as well as any inexpensive non-corrosive ammo and sometimes it can even shoot better than expensive non-corrosive ammo.
Just keep in mind that some corrosive ammo is ok and some of it is just bad because it's manufactured poorly. Well manufactured corrosive ammo can shoot just as well as any inexpensive non-corrosive ammo and sometimes it can even shoot better than expensive non-corrosive ammo.
Sinmply put, the residue of fired "corrosive" primers attract moisture.
If you are shooting in a very humid climate, you should try to clean your guns the same day. If you are in a dry climate, you can wait a bit longer as there is little moisture to attract to your guns, especially if you seal them up in a guncase to transport and store until cleaning time. In either case, unless you live in the rainforests, you don't need to run a patch mere moments after firing your last bullet.
When you do get to cleaning, you can use anything water based, but windex is not actually any more effective than water or other alternatives. Frankly the whole rinse, dry, oil then do it again more thoroughly at home is tedious and unnecessary. There are gun cleaning products out there that are effective and designed to work with corrosive primer deposits, one of them bine M-Pro7 or Hoppes elite. These are not solvents, but rather detergent type cleaning agents that do effectively clean residual compounds and do it effectively. I use M-pro 7 and i shoot a lot of corrosive surplus in various rifles and pistols and with this i have no more rust occasional blooms that i would sometimes get with using pure water cleaning methods.
The main flaw with water based cleaning methods is that you not only have to make sure you remove all the salts with the water, now you have to make sure you remove the water itself since that is the *actual* corrosive agent here. The salt deposits are merely the catalyst for the deposition of the corrosive moisture. If you go dousing your gun with the garden hose to clean it out, you're introducing a lot more H2O than those wee little salts ever could and now its all in the nooks and crannies. Even just running sopping wet patches down the barrel potentially ends up with water squeezing out and dripping down into the receiver and action. Using proper cleaning chemicals effectively removes this hindrance.
If you are shooting in a very humid climate, you should try to clean your guns the same day. If you are in a dry climate, you can wait a bit longer as there is little moisture to attract to your guns, especially if you seal them up in a guncase to transport and store until cleaning time. In either case, unless you live in the rainforests, you don't need to run a patch mere moments after firing your last bullet.
When you do get to cleaning, you can use anything water based, but windex is not actually any more effective than water or other alternatives. Frankly the whole rinse, dry, oil then do it again more thoroughly at home is tedious and unnecessary. There are gun cleaning products out there that are effective and designed to work with corrosive primer deposits, one of them bine M-Pro7 or Hoppes elite. These are not solvents, but rather detergent type cleaning agents that do effectively clean residual compounds and do it effectively. I use M-pro 7 and i shoot a lot of corrosive surplus in various rifles and pistols and with this i have no more rust occasional blooms that i would sometimes get with using pure water cleaning methods.
The main flaw with water based cleaning methods is that you not only have to make sure you remove all the salts with the water, now you have to make sure you remove the water itself since that is the *actual* corrosive agent here. The salt deposits are merely the catalyst for the deposition of the corrosive moisture. If you go dousing your gun with the garden hose to clean it out, you're introducing a lot more H2O than those wee little salts ever could and now its all in the nooks and crannies. Even just running sopping wet patches down the barrel potentially ends up with water squeezing out and dripping down into the receiver and action. Using proper cleaning chemicals effectively removes this hindrance.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Corrosive primed ammo requires compulsive cleaning with water-based cleaners followed by drying then oiling the barrel. Or else a chrome lined barrel.
Advantage is that corrosive primers tend to fire reliably in cold weather conditions (think Russian winters).
Advantage is that corrosive primers tend to fire reliably in cold weather conditions (think Russian winters).
devildog32713
Member
The Russians liked their corrosive primers, as I learned that corrosive primers work better in cold climates, like uhhh, Russia!
Labyrinth666
Member
So if I get an AK with a chrome lined barrel it won't corrode?
Joe Demko
Member
I have several weapons that see nothing but corrosive ammo with no ill effects. The cleaning isn't as tedious as some make it sound. A bucket hot water and a funnel make it easy for me. My PSL, for example, gets stripped and the bolt group gets tossed in the bucket and swished around. The gas tube and barrel get a couple quarts dumped through them. Everything will dry from residual heat and any further desired cleaning can be done at leisure. Use of a Balistol solution instead of plain water will leave a protective coat of oil. This all takes about as much time to do as to describe. None of my corrosive- shooting guns show any corrosion at all, and I live in PA where it is plenty humid.
five.five-six
Member
this is why i like to do it at the range while the barrel is still hot... it will dry the water rather quickley... many times at the end of the day, I will run a clip through my mosin to warm up the barrel, then dump some water down the barrel, then a dry patch or 2 thaen an oiled patch.... GTG
GunsAmerica Fan
Member
Just clean your gun and shoot the cheap ammo. But beware a lot of that 7.62x54R is really hot machinegun ammo and jams M44s and some M39s. 91/30s have much less tight chambers and shoot the hot stuff fine though.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
The bore may not, but this is a gas-operated firearm, so corrosive deposits will accumulate in any passages or parts that burning gases will go through.Labyrinth666 said:
Shadow 7D
Member
It's something to watch for, not really much else, if you know how to clean the rifle afterward, most of the problems comes from people not realizing two important things, first that the ammo is corrosive, and second, that you have to use a water based cleaner and not a solvent to remove the salts.
rocky branch
Member
Most all military ammo had corrosive primers into the 50s.
Some much later.
"Bad" is a funny description.
You just got to clean your piece. It's part of the game.
Semi-autos require a bit more attention.
Some much later.
"Bad" is a funny description.
You just got to clean your piece. It's part of the game.
Semi-autos require a bit more attention.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Agreed. You'll want to run hot water through, and brush out, the gas block and gas vent hole through the barrel.
Usually I just strip my AKs down to parts and put the small parts in a bucket and stand the barrel muzzle-down in the bucket and pour near-boling water over the whole lot. Dunk, scrub, rinse, and let air dry. The very hot water helps it evaporate off faster. Once dry, oil well.
I usually check them the next day or two later. Just pop the gas tube off quickly and peek inside. If I've missed any spots, there will be a little surface rust. If no rust, no worries.
-Sam
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