Cost/Benefit analysis

[JimKirk]

Really, The time I spend reloading is some of the most enjoyable time I spend. I'm this technical type that thrives on getting things to work the way I want them to work. Saving some $$ is a by-product of reloading for me. Shooting is only a means to an end, seeing what you built preform like you want or you can figure out way it does not. Fishing almost never repays it total cost, I could buy fish cheaper! Hunting is the same, I could buy prime beef cheaper! Golfing...ever tried to eat one them little white balls ...if all you want is to have a beer wouldn't it be cheaper just to buy the beer to start with?

Jimmy K

 

[Maj Dad]

Deavis, It's Time

to kick back and relax. Lose the calculator and focus on the sunshine and a Corona. Everything you say is logical and well thought out, and you are spot on, but sound wound just a tad tight. Take it from your long lost (and late learning) cousin: Chill, compadre...

 

[Deavis]

You weren't even addressing me and I took it personally.
Nobody works 24/7 (at least for long), and everybody needs downtime which is (usually) never compensated.

Did I address anyone personally or did I attack their argument? I'm sorry I'm not polite enough for you, but I like being honest. There is a difference between pointing out ignorance in an argument and calling someone ignorant. I'm not going to flame you, but as an economic professor, if there is something fundamentally wrong with my argument, then point it out.

We all do, and we don't do a cost to benefit analysis on it to see if it's worth our time.

I beg to differ, we all do it automatically. We just don't think about it. That's why nobody will take me up on the offer to reload for me for nothing on their "free" time... because it is worth something and they instantly make a calculation that says, "My free time is worth more than $0, no thanks Deavis." How about I offer some of you $100 an hour to reload for me on your "free" time or your SWMBO scratching time? I bet SWMBO wouldn't mind a new necklace and would be happy to trade you for a couple of 8 hour days.

Everything you say is logical and well thought out, and you are spot on, but sound wound just a tad tight.

Just honest these days, there is no point in spending time fluttering around the point, better to just get it out there.

 

[Asherdan]

Deavis, I think you're dismissing the concept of non-monetary compensation in favor of only monetary compensation. The guys talking about free time and enjoyment in a technical task are bringing that one up, it is real world applicable and does have an assignable value.

Also, when I reload, not only am I compensating myself in a non-monetary fashion, but I'm producing a material good usable by me for 1/3 to 1/2 the counter price in the cartrdges I reload for, since I'm well past the stage of recouping tooling costs. Depending on caliber my hourly monetary compensation (derived by my material cost vs. retal cost differential) runs from $18 to $32 per hour. I view it as paying myself, same as doing a brake job for $67 in parts & tools plus my time, rather than the $220 dealer cost (also a recent personal example).

This is still an individual value judgement. The monetary/non-monetary compensation is worth it to me. Someone else may have their non-monetary aspect run into the negative, changing the total compensation ratio in favour of other options.

 

[Landric]

I beg to differ, we all do it automatically. We just don't think about it. That's why nobody will take me up on the offer to reload for me for nothing on their "free" time... because it is worth something and they instantly make a calculation that says, "My free time is worth more than $0, no thanks Deavis." How about I offer some of you $100 an hour to reload for me on your "free" time or your SWMBO scratching time? I bet SWMBO wouldn't mind a new necklace and would be happy to trade you for a couple of 8 hour days.

Of course no one has volunteered to load for you for free. Time spent working for someone else is by definition no longer free time, and it should be compensated. I handload for the various benefits I get out of it, not because my time is valueless to me. Again, I point out that no one here has said that their time has no value, just that time outside work doesn't have monetary value.

Provided I had the proper licenses and insurance, I'd be happy to load for you for $100 an hour, but at that point it becomes work time and is no longer my time. Since you are paying me, its your choice how I spend those hours, not mine.

 

[jeepmor]

My reloading reasoning

Do you judge your free time doing what ever it is you do based on what you could be making if you were at work?

Yes, my free time is worth more to me than my work time, in dollars. Work gets a lot out of me. Time off is oh so precious when you've been starting up the largest solar factory in America. It's a real grind, truly, I'm a grind engineer. I knew what I was getting into, but oh brother, my free time has evaporated. That said, I started my reloading endeavour for cost savings and clearly got it before my current job. Translated, I had 3-4 days off a week, every week, and I could make thousands of rounds if I chose too. And a few times I did. I did the math and figured it all out once. If you want a quick return or need the right math to convince the wife, build rifle cartridges first. Adds up much, much quicker that way.

Before I started the new job, I moved to a LNL progressive press so my time could be more productive for pistol loading. Plus I got in on that 1k free bullet deal, did some math there too. I bought an LNL bushing kit for my single stage so I could save time from being overly anal getting that last 0.001" out of my die settings. Now I drop in, give a firm twist, and go. I do wish the setting on my LNL matched the setting on the single stage bushing so there was not adjustment from one to the other, but oh well.

I've purchased stashes of cases, bullets, primers and powders so I don't have to run to the store to get the require accoutrements. I timed myself for a 100 rounds once and figured I was making 300 rounds an hour no matter what I was cranking out. That savings adds up quickly when you factor your time in.

I saw a bunch of lifestyle change coming years in advance and took advantage of my wife and I's DINK status while I had the extra deniro with her working. She's a stay at home Mom now, 3-4 years after starting reloading. The kid's almost two now, so the time saving of the progressive makes a single evening of work very productive.

Now, I just need to find more time to do the shooting, it's deer season and I have not even sighted my rifle in yet this year. Been working, a lot.

That's my story. Reloading is a hobby for me. I have several hobbies that save me money, reloading is just one of them. The other, I'm good with my hands as I grew up in a woodshop/metal/fabrication environment since I was 13 y/o. I just dig that kind of stuff and reloading is just another extension of that.

jeepmor

 

[RustyFN]

Don't forget to count your time, it is not free. Any analysis that excludes it is short-sighted. Don't give me the whole, "I like reloading" or "reloading is relaxing, it doesn't cost me anything," spiel, that isn't the point. Your free time is worth something, generally it should be valued at the money you could be making in that time OR the monetary translation of other activities you could be doing that are rewarding for you.

If any of you value your free time at $0, then come talk to me, I'd be happy to employ you to reload for me at that rate 24/7. I'll even throw in a copy of Thoma Sowell's, "Basic Economics," to cure you of your opportunity cost ill

You are 100% right. This is what I figure my time is worth to reload. I cast my own bullets for 45 auto. I get all the lead for free so I figure the bullet material as being free. I use range pick-up brass so I have never had to buy brass. The only thing I have to buy to reload are powder and primers. I am loading 45 auto for $30 per 1,000. Factory 45 auto would cost around $450 so I am saving $420. I have seven hours invested in casting and loading those 1,000 rounds so my time is worth $60 per hour. At least that what I figure I'm getting paid to reload my own ammo because of the savings. Some how I think this is the opposite of your point.

 

[Ky Larry]

Maybe we're missing the real relationship between reloading, shooting, and cost. New reloaders tell me they spend just as much on components as they did on factory ammo. Reloading just lets them shoot a lot more for the same dollars. Like, DUH. I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I figured this out 35 years ago. The question is,"Does reloading save money?" The answer is a definate yes, no, sometimes, and "It depends on how you look at it."

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Some people have concluded that reloading doesn't save you money, it just allows you to shoot more for the same price. If you don't like to shoot much, or have unlimited funds, you do not NEED to reload. If you have more time than money, or are willing to part with SOME time, reloading may be for you. If you just like to SHOOT, at all costs, reloading is time well (and often enjoyably) spent.

 

[Landric]

I have also noticed that folks who bring of these "value of time" arguments never seem to count the time they spend at the range as part of the "cost" of shooting. The logic seems to go that "shooting is fun" and "handloading couldn't possibly be fun", so I'll count my time spent handloading as money lost, but the time I spend on the range is fun, so I won't count that as money lost. These same people then get upset when someone suggests they count their time on the range the same way they say they count handloading.

What these people see to miss is that some of us (myself included) enjoy handloading as much as shooting. In fact, I like handloading so much that the time I enjoy most on the range is testing my newly worked up handloads.

The bottom line is that if one doesn't enjoy handloading, one shouldn't do it. It will never save enough money to make up for the time spend doing it if one doesn't like it.

 

[qajaq59]

Don't forget to count your time, it is not free.

Do you figure a cost for your time when you go skiing, fishing or golfing? If not, then this hobby is no different. And if you do..... Well, so be it.

 

[RKRCPA]

All I know is, I started reloading 30 years ago and it has been costing me money ever since. I load cheap ammo so I can shoot more. I shoot more and then I want a new gun. Then I buy more relaoding stuff so I can shoot. Then I buy a new gun.......

Reloading has cost me a fortune in the last 30 years, it's almost as bad as my motorcycle. (But I get good gas mileage)

 

[Roccobro]

And with the national unemployment rate at almost 10%, all this opportunity cost=dollars talk is invalid. Not many people can just say "hey, I'm going to make my hourly wage for the next 2 hours" and make it so.

I believe in magic. But arguing my point with internal "logic" won't convince everyone else of this "fact".

But obviously Beavis enjoys wasting his time here vs. making USD currnecy. I know I do. I'll take that $0 he promised to do that!!!!

Justin
(back to slobbering on my feet...aka teaching economics to NON-students)

 

[Roccobro]

Sombody plug in the numbers in quickcalc for me. If I work 12 hours days and I reload (WHILE WORKING!) for 2 hours each day, what are my opportunity costs????
#s:
assume likely to keep job = 99%
assume $43/hr
Assume 1.5x$43/hr is I skip my lunch break (I eat on the clock when nobody is watching)
assume I was drooling on my feet while working anyways.....
Assume I sell said ammo to boss holding my future position
And said loads are 18.0gr of TG behind a 200gr bullet for his Ruger Blackhawk
et al ad nauseum

Justin

 

[RustyFN]

What these people see to miss is that some of us (myself included) enjoy handloading as much as shooting. In fact, I like handloading so much that the time I enjoy most on the range is testing my newly worked up handloads.

I'm with you there. That's why I haven't bought factory ammo for the last three years. Sometimes I think I shoot so I can reload. The same thing for me with casting bullets.

All I know is, I started reloading 30 years ago and it has been costing me money ever since. I load cheap ammo so I can shoot more. I shoot more and then I want a new gun. Then I buy more relaoding stuff so I can shoot. Then I buy a new gun.......

It's a vicious cycle RKR.