Could this affect my gun rights?

[megatronrules]

I'am going to file for a restraining order this week against a former girlfriend who is stalking and harrasing me,I've also been threatened by her new boyfriend who called my cell phone tonight. I went ot my local PD to report it and they said that I should go file for a restraining order against her. My question is could she in turn get one against me and if so woulden't this screw with my gun rights and ccw permit? I would think that the fact I got one against her first would prevent this but I don't know. I haven't done anything to her and shes never reported anything about me to the police. I want this R.O. on her because I feel shes a nut and may try something,but I don't want her to get one om me in return and mess up my right to own a gun or my ccw,what would you do in my situation? Any insight on this would be great guys.

 

[Leanwolf]

I suggest you speak with an attorney who is versed in that type legality.

L.W.

 

[Vic]

R.O.

I did the research on RO's. First thing is, witnesses, and second, documentation. Unless you have proof positive, you cannot even file an RO legally (they don't hand them out like church flyers). The person submitting must have PROOF of the infringments or tresspass against them or a judge will not sign it. As for her filing against you...same thing as above. Since you have documented the first police report on her, it is on record. If this happens again or a multitude of times...report it to the police every time and their report IS the documentation you need to file the RO. As far as affecting your right to carry with a CCW and her filing a RO, I wouldn't worry about it. Police and judges (depending on where you live) are smart enough to see through all the trash in a domestic disagreement. If you live in an "anti" part of the woods, it might affect you if the court decides to issue the RO for her, but I don't see that happening because when you got the permit to carry you were declared physically and mentally qualified to do so and you have NO police record/felonies. The qualification factor for a civ to carry is actually harder to get through than some police qualifications to carry in some areas. This is not actual legal advice, but it is personal experience. Document the harassment "X" times of occurance, file for RO. You may wish to consult an attorney in your area because laws vary from place to place. Maybe there's an attorney here who can better direct you.

 

[hoppinglark]

if you don't have one, get the "old school style" answering machine, when the jealous new boyfriend calls and leaves threatening messages you can legally take it to the police, ONLY BECAUSE he knew he was being recorded.

Just an idea. if he's that dumb...

BTW "megatronrules" cool name!

 

[stlgunfan]

She was your gf so shes considered a "intimate partner" under the LautenDick bill. Id be worried yes if she turns one on you. I think Floridas pretty strict when it comes to RO and guns. Thanks Lautenberg for that. Another useless form of gun control.

IMO I wouldnt file one on her. Cuase she might try and file one on you and there goes your gun rights.

 

[Zundfolge]

I want this R.O. on her because I feel shes a nut and may try something...

If she's a nut that might try something than a piece of paper won't stop her.

At the very least you can expect her to file one against you (which will mean no more CHL, and you'll have to "dispose" of your firearms quickly ... I recommend selling them to a friend for $1). Of course once you're disarmed, if she and/or her new BF do something nutty than the outcome for you will be worse.

I'd say for the most part that restraining orders don't do any good ... in fact I'd go so far as to say they are bad because they tend to escalate things.

Several years ago a guy I knew was dumped by his girlfriend for another guy. He kept calling her, begging her to come back (but never got upset or threatening), but the new boyfriend didn't like this so he convinced her to file a RO. The RO pushed him over the edge from a lovesick puppy trying to beg her to come back to a wounded animal who decided to lash out at them. Had there been no restraining order, he'd have eventually given up and moved on, instead it lead to a series of events that got more and more out of hand with lots of property damage and even a little violence. (I'm not suggesting that they deserved it, nor that the whole mess wasn't his fault ... I'm just pointing out that the RO made things worse not better).

 

[megatronrules]

Thanks all and hoppinglark I like my username catchy isn't it? I guess maybe I won't run and file one until I research this further. I don't think the new BF is going to actually do anything I think hes just being MR. man in his own mind. I diddn't argue with him but I did asert the fact I haven't called her in almost 3 months so he had the wrong guy. I know this seems wierd but girl can be pocessive and unwilling to let go just as much as men can.

 

[Jim March]

Listen, this depends a LOT on the state. The standards of proof on RO issuance varies all over the map. In Oregon they hand 'em out like candy.

The good news is this: if one is served on you, it's generally good for 30 days at which point there is a court hearing. If you don't attend you're screwed but if you DO you can fight it with witnesses of your own or written declarations from witnesses that say she's the screwball, or any other documentation you have on threats.

Having to hide your guns for 30 days at a friend's house or have them in police custody for that time is bad, but surviveable. If the RO is quashed at that hearing, you are NOT hosed by the Federal ban on RO recipients having guns for the rest of your life.

Unfortunately, what you can't do in FL is record the phone calls and prove the threats. It's not legal there. See also:

http://www.callcorder.com/phone-recording-law-america.htm

 

[itgoesboom]

Listen, this depends a LOT on the state. The standards of proof on RO issuance varies all over the map. In Oregon they hand 'em out like candy.

Man, I wish that were really the case.

Called trying to get one on my wife's ex-boyfriend from 6-7 years ago after he started up some odd behavior, showing that was probably stalking her.

Cops told me that unless he directly threatened her, as in showed up on the front step with an axe, we wouldn't be able to get a restraining order in Oregon.

And even if he did show up with an axe, we couldn't get a restraining order unless she had been "intimately" involved with him in the last 6 months (Pretty sure it was 6 months). So obviously, since he hadn't so much as even seen here in 6-7 years.....we were SOL.

I.G.B.

 

[Jim March]

You relied on a cop for legal advice. That was your first mistake.

Look...I have a whole web page up on California knife law. You know WHY? Because every time I asked a cop about knife legalities, I got a different answer. Then years later I saw a man get arrested for having a double edge knife. That's what the cops said they were arresting him for. Of course, they falsified the charge to a concealed carry bust once they found out double edge knives are -=not=- illegal in California. Good thing we had pictures of him open carrying that day, or he'd have faced a three-year felony prison sentence.

Do. Not. Rely. On. Cops. When. You. Need. To. Know. About. Your. Rights.

They are allowed to lie to you to get you to confess things. M'kay? Some have gotten deep into the habit. Others are lazy and don't look up the rules.

 

[ccw9mm]

I'am going to file for a restraining order this week against a former girlfriend who is stalking and harrasing me,I've also been threatened by her new boyfriend ...

You're the harrassed. She's the aggressor.

My question is could she in turn get one against me and if so woulden't this screw with my gun rights and ccw permit?

Someone initiating domestic violence can certainly have the administrative and legal "sights" trained on him/her as a result. That means: her, the aggressor. The thing is, this isn't domestic, as it's not someone with whom you live. It's a former, an ex ... and apparently a minor criminal. Yes, get legal advice. But I cannot imagine your rights to protection would be limited in any fashion by the need for you to escalate your protection via a restraining order.

Tips: fresh batteries for the camera; good recording on the answering machine / voicemail / Vonage service; fresh rounds in the carry piece.

 

[Gunfire]

Jim March is correct. They give federal money to those with the most and they do give these out like candy but not to you or the new bf.

a former girlfriend who is stalking and harrasing me

That is not enough. What exactly did she do to you? Call your work? Make a false police report?

I've also been threatened by her new boyfriend who called my cell phone tonight.

You can't get one against her for what he does.

I went ot my local PD to report it and they said that I should go file for a restraining order against her.

See, they are already blowing you off. They didn't even make a report did they? If it was her, they would have had a team of counselors digging for anything that has ever 'bothered' her about you and telling her what to say and do against you to get your guns. Do not be deceived, Lautenburg IS gun control. They give the ability to be permanent, after the hearing, and they are heard in 'civil court' which means the 'rules of evidence' and interpretation of what 'violence' or 'harrassment' ...is... however the judge 'feels'. Your God given Right, revoked forever, not by a jury of your peers but by one biased judge.

My advise, run, don't just walk away, run as fast as you can away from these people. If you are ever involved in one of these, get a good criminal lawyer, because you are on a very thin high wire away from being one due to the biased evidence, judges and financial incentive to grant as many as possible.

Google Dr. Timothy Emerson and see how they ruined his life.

 

[nhhillbilly]

R/O

IN NH they hand them out like candy also. But you are entitled to a hearing before a justice with in 5 business days if you request. Normally the first one that applies gets the R/O. You have to have cause to get an R/O. Ex's girlfriend / Ex boyfriends are allowed for R/O in NH. They do not have to be currently involved. Know your state law.

 

[hoppinglark]

Unfortunately, what you can't do in FL is record the phone calls and prove the threats. It's not legal there. See also:

http://www.callcorder.com/phone-reco...aw-america.htm

I checked out your link and it basically says that Florida is a "two party consent"
state, I would think that when you leave a message on an answering machine you know it's being recorded,(that was MY proposal) and that should count as consent...at least I would hope.

**edit- ya'know if you are telling us the whole story, then I would assume, she is talking about how great you were to get him jealous, and instead of treating her better, he wants to take it out on you.
So I figure you should be fine in a month or two.

 

[ccw9mm]

Unfortunately, what you can't do in FL is record the phone calls and prove the threats. It's not legal there.

I've got the Vonage telephone service (VOIP). It's essentially like Yahoo!email, but with voicemail and your telephone. It keeps a great log of all inbound calls, tracking the phone numbers. And if you let all calls go to voicemail, you get a history of those messages stored electronically. It surely is legal to have an answering machine. Something like this might help keep the story straight, if the ex and b.f. start flinging accusations.

 

[megatronrules]

I'am just concerned that by filing for a restraining order I might escalate the situation. Should I just let it lie,and hope it stops? I know her firends would have no problem lieing for her even to a judge they're dirt bags like her but I diddn't find all this out until to late. I'am not a tuff guy believe me I'am not I'am not afraid of this guy I think hes just trying to be a show off to her. I'll consult an attorney tommorow and see what happens. The problem is they diddn't want to take reports they told me I diddn't need them,I guess they did lie to me them.

 

[ccw9mm]

Filing a restraining order should not legally be seen as any sort of escalation. It's erection of a defense by you. The escalation is made by the attacking force. Time to speak with an attorney, I think.

 

[AJAX22]

with the legal system, the person who files first gets the benifit of the doubt. I wouldn't wait too long.

Just my opinion, but I'd file, get a stack of doccumentation togeather, and call in any violations of the RO you get.

 

[Don Gwinn]

A police officer is empowered to lie to a suspect if he deems it necessary as part of his investigation. The intent is to allow cops to say things like "No, no, I'm not a cop. No, you're right, they have to tell you if you ask. It's good that you're up on the law. So, do you want your husband's death to look like an accident, or are we sending a message? I'm a little hard of hearing, so please speak clearly directly into my lapel."

This doesn't mean you should expect to be lied to when you ask a cop about the law. Sheesh.


Now, what you do need to keep in mind is that most police officers aren't lawyers and their legal advice is worth what you pay for it.

Get a lawyer.

 

[Gunfire]

I want this R.O. on her because I feel shes a nut and may try something

This is not enough for a man against a woman but would be considered for a woman against a man. You're right, you would just be escalating this. What good is a piece of paper anyway? Just go about your business. They will tire of you when they don't get any more reaction.

Just my opinion, but I'd file, get a stack of doccumentation togeather, and call in any violations of the RO you get.

Your injunction will be denied and this is exactly what she will do to you and her's will get approved when her friends lie for her. A violation is a criminal infraction and all she has to do is say you violated it. No proof needed for an arrest which is automatic. Then you are in a whole nother world, like criminal.

Forget them. If they really do try something criminal you can then report it to the pd and insist on a report and you still have your self defense. Ajax is right about filing first but you would still be denied but she wouldn't after a month or 2 goes by and she had her pack of liars together, they would then consider her filing first. It's a losing proposition for a man against a woman unless there are real damages and criminal charges against her. Otherwise, get a new gf and have her file one against the bf after you see them in a parking lot, she 'felt threatened by 'him'', "HE" 'approached' her, and 'verbally attacked' her and you, and she is 'very afraid for her childrens safety' because she knows 'HE' has 'guns'. That's how it goes, don't be surprised when it's used against you if you initiate one against her.

I'm not a lawyer either but I've seen this happen multiple times. There's a little 40 something lady in town that had never been in trouble. A new neighbor moved in and didn't like her and knew of the lautenberg lie. She's now has a criminal record for violation and stalking. After going through all this the lady that's a criminal now wrote the judge a letter, "How to Run your Neighbor's Life!" This law is a joke and has nothing to do with Freedom loving People.

 

[Coronach]

"...speak directly into my lapel."

OK. I almost had coffee come out my nose.

What he said. The main problem is that cops generally don't know diddly about protection orders, beyond how to tell someone where to go to get one, and how to verify if a protection order is currently valid. I'm a pretty heads-up and knowledgeable cop, and I have absolutely no idea what standard of proof is required in the state of Ohio to get a TPO or CPO. I have no idea. None whatsoever. Zero. Zilch. Nada. I tell my 'clients' that I am taking a report, because they have requested one or because I deem one is necessary, and that if they are interested in criminal prosecution* and/or any court orders like TPOs or CPOs they should call the City Prosecutor's office, and I give them a business card.

When I get one who claims to have a TPO or CPO against someone, I call our Records Unit with whatever information I have (name of protected person, name of alleged violator, or - manna from heaven- a case number) and I am informed of whether or not there is a valid order currently in effect and the general terms of the order.

What happened in between? I honestly have no idea.

Mike

*In cases of DV where there is an arrest or criminal charges filed, the victim must attend the arraignment of the suspect before the court in order to get the protection order. This is communicated to the victim.

 

[Zundfolge]

Filing a restraining order should not legally be seen as any sort of escalation.

We're not talking about legal escalation, we're talking about an over all escalation of the situation.

If he gets the restraining order on his ex and her BF, this is going to piss them off ... I don't care if they are 110% in the wrong and he's 110% in the right, it is still going to make the ex and the BF angry ... this will lead to either "He's screwing us with the courts, lets see what we can to do screw him back!" or "Screw him, lets burn his house down!".

The point being that the RO doesn't make megatronrules any safer, nor does it lead toward a quiet ending to the whole ordeal.


If it was me, I'd take all the tactical precautions I needed to. Change locks if she ever had a key, always carry, maybe carry some sort of tape recorder (many MP3 players will record voice ... my iRiver has a built in mic and everything) Consider changing your phone number.

But DON'T expect any direct confrontation with these people (in person or via the courts) to be pleasant. Don't expect to walk away unscathed.


There is no justice in theses legal/domestic issues (especially for the man).

 

[Coronach]

The general point of RO/POs is to convince the other person to knock it off. Sometimes that works. Sometimes it does not. What is important to remember is that the RO/PO is nothing more than that- if the person does not want to stop, they will not stop. The only people it will affect are the individuals who will get a clue after a judge tells them to stop, but could not get that same clue when the aggrieved party told them to stop. That's a merely a slice of the population, but not nearly as narrow of one as you might think; some people need a whallop with the cluebat but can behave themselves after they get it.

Take home points:

RO/POs work only if the stalker is willing to stop.

If you think they won't stop, you're probably right.

RO/POs offer no protection beyond that. They're a piece of paper.

Mike

 

[Coronach]

Or:

Restraining Orders: Just another way of saying "I love you".

Mike

 

[Gunfire]

The general point of RO/POs is to convince the other person to knock it off.

Originally, yes. Now, it's about 'control'. Control of property, finances, child custody/support and control of another person. Like you said and just like 'gun control', it only affects the law-abiding. Abuse of these laws is rampant and the courts buy right in for 'their' federal financial rewards.

Alot of society take the path of least resistance and self-indulgence/gratitude. 'Our' emergency rooms are used as clinics and not emergency only. The ambulances are called because they can get in quicker because of all the other people using the er as a clinic. Welfare. People parking in handicapped parking places. The katrina debacle. Police are called to babysit petty arguements and on and on...... The society learns the loopholes and uses them to their advantage and this law has one huge loophole however well-meaning it was originally.

Mega, just walk away and don't look back unless to check your 6. Seriously consider changing your phone number.