Courtesy at the Range...

[CountGlockula]

While at the range last night at my indoor range shooting 200 rounds out of my GLOCK 23, I noticed something:

PEOPLE DON'T READ RANGE RULES!!!

It clearly says, "DO NOT LOAD MAGAZINES ON TABLES, ONLY AT BOOTHS!"
Also, "HANDLE ALL FIREARMS IN BOOTH".

Guess what the dudes right next to me were doing? Loading up their live mags behind me and toting their guns; not sure if their guns were loaded or not. But I treat every gun as if it were loaded...like the safety rules right?

While my GLOCK was cooling off, I politely told them that the sign says to load the mags in your booth. The dudes were compliant. One of them was such newbie that he was jumbling a 9mm Kahr...bad gripping, bad stance, flinching after every bang, etc.

Do you guys encourage others to following the range rules? Especially, when other shooters are directly next to you?

 

[American_Pit_Bull]

I agree...
I usually bring at least half a dozen mags with me that are already loaded, but I will load the rest of them at the booth. (IDPA and other reasonable exceptions are made while shooting outside)...

 

[Eric F]

I agree you should obey the rules but what gives with loading mags? Who cared where you load them. I do not understand the mentality of that rule????

 

[poor_richard]

At least they were compliant and didn't argue. While it's nice to think that there will be no safety violations, face it, some people are more concerned with someone else telling them what to do. They learned from their mistakes and corrected them.

Good for you for speaking up.

 

[Wild Deuce]

Something similar to what you described was a contributing factor in this fatality.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=306237

I always say something politely if I see a violation.

 

[Quoheleth]

Yep. At my range, the RO is the first shooter on-site and remains so until he surrenders the RO vest to someone else. The sign says plainly, "The RO is KING!!!" I've had my turn being RO, and I try to give folks the benefit of the doubt ("Did you know...") but I still enforce the rules as I know and understand them. Most of the time, from what I've seen, the guys are pretty good about it and give the RO the benefit of the doubt, too.

When I'm not the RO (whew!!!), I'm still aware of what's going on around me. Had a noob down the line from me a few weeks ago that wasn't properly clearing his weapon for the called cease fire (he put it down on the table, on safe, but with mag in and one in the pipe). So, I wandered over and started talking with him, discovered him to be a new shooter and member and told him how to clear it correctly next time [note: we did not do so at that time because others were already walking down-range and to pick up a loaded firearm would have been major foul. Instead we stayed 10' from his gun so even if it were noted it were hot, it would also be obvious we were not endangering those downrange]. He thanked me - both for the instruction and for not being an a&& about it. No problem...now he knows, he's learned his lesson, and I gained a shooting buddy instead of being seen as a horses rear end.

So, yeah, I'll try to be safe and ensure safety as much as I can.

But a few of the high speed/low drag guys...what can you teach them? They know it all! A few weeks earlier, I had my daughter with me at the range, teaching her how to use my old Nylon 66. She was doing pretty well and having a ball...until the Mall Ninja set up to our left and he started spraying us with his Kimber 1911 and his DPMS AR. There were PLENTY of spots to our right [we purposely stayed to the left end of the rifle line to stay out of other's way] but he took the spot on our left. Nothing like teaching a 10-year old to shoot while dodging hot .223 brass. She even commented on how "rude" he was. To be fair, he wasn't breaking the rules...it was a matter of etiquette and manners.

Q

 

[Eric F]

I find the most frequent problem localy is the most dangerous.......keeping the muzzle pointed downrange! I saw more than once a guy rack the slide with the gun pointed sideways and folks standing in adjacent fireing lanes.

 

[Praxis]

I'm not entirely sure about goal of the magazine rule either. I've shot at a range where the rules said you couldn't have open boxes of ammo except at your booth. In effect, I guess that rule basically serves the same goal as the magazine loading rule.

Trust me, I say something if I see someone doing something dangerous at the range. I went shooting with my fiance a couple months back. There were 3 inexperienced shooters (two guys/one girl) a couple booths over. The RO kept having to show them how their handgun (maybe a Kahr) worked. At one point, the guy got a jam, turned around and started messing with the slide (finger on trigger of course) with the gun pointed in our direction. Both of us yelled at them and made sure the RO stayed close until they finished shooting.

I'm happy to help new shooters, but these guys were too busy showing off for the girl and trying to force her to shoot a gun she was clearly not comfortable shooting

 

[Geno]

False Sense of Security

Not all of the booths have bullet-resistent walls. Some are merely plywood that is padded and covered. How many people here have witnessed others (in booths) point their weapon left or right instead of forward?! I've seen it frequently!!!

Doc2005

 

[MechAg94]

I am not sure why you would prohibit loading mags outside the booth as long as the gun itself was left in the booth. Rules are rules though. Not my range.

I am a member of a private range. Most everyone I have dealt with there has been very nice and easy to get along with. I have had any issues.

 

[Eric F]

Yep. At my range, the RO is the first shooter on-site and remains so until he surrenders the RO vest to someone else. The sign says plainly, "The RO is KING!!!"

off topic but I find more and more RO's get a huge power trip over being the ro to the point when I show up I leave if I see certian individuals. Some of these folks try to kick you out because you do not want to hear their gun teachings ect. Age does not seem to affect the snobish attitude I think its just exactly what it is a HUGE POWER TRIP!

 

[Scorpiusdeus]

Do I TRY and obey all range rules, yes. Do I make a mistake now and then, yes, but I've gotten so much better. Every mistake I've made has been the result of rushing.

Remembering that I'm not perfect allows me to be a better range mentor to those I see making errors.

I usually try and strike up a friendly conversation with offenders and once we establish a conversation I politely mention that they may want to avoid this or that behavior. It almost always works. Once in awhile you get the "thug life" types who just know they know more than everyone else and they don't listen. I let the range owners deal with them.

One thing I hate is arrogant loud mouth range advice. I've been justifiably on the receiving end of it once, and I was less concerned with correcting my action than I was with being angry at the yelling loud mouth.

Good manners, polite behavior, and mutual respect should be the watch words of every gun owner. Arrogance, rudeness, and anger are three things that should be left at home.

People I watch most ore people with ONLY a rental gun. Second are the hoods with their girlfriends.

 

[MechAg94]

Yes. Doc is right. The booth just keeps the other guy's brass from hitting you.

 

[CountGlockula]

but what gives with loading mags? Who cared where you load them. I do not understand the mentality of that rule????

Basically, it's to keep those loading a firearm at a designated location rather than in an open area where folks are walking about. That's what I can think of.

The worst is when some newb is walking around with a loaded gun talking to his buddies at the other booths.

I've been pulled aside and lectured by the RO numerous times. I appreciate it because he sees things that I don't. It actually made me more aware of my environment.

 

[Rumble]

The indoor range I use the most lets you load mags at the tables, as long as you leave the gun at the booth. But either way - it's not my range, so I do what I'm told.

And I do make mistakes. Did it today. Was alone at a local outdoor range, and in a moment of brain-lock - not an excuse, just an explanation - I turned, gun in hand, to chase down a loose round that rolled off the bench. Stupid. There's no RO to catch stuff like that there, but I'd have likely been sent home. And earned it, too.

 

[RPCVYemen]

Do you guys encourage others to following the range rules? Especially, when other shooters are directly next to you?

I shoot at a range that has semi/volunteer ROs at all times when the range is open. They are in the room with you, not on the other side of a piece of glass. If you break a rule, they will come talk to you. If it is a small infraction, and you are polite, you are embarrassed, and it is forgotten. If you decide to argue, then you will eventually become unhappy - how unhappy is up to you. Do you want one of the other ROs to come of break, stand 5 feet behind you, and watch every move you make? That can be arranged. Do you just want to exit red-faced for the day? Than can be arranged. Do you want to lose your membership. That can be arranged. In fact, since it's an official county building, if your heart's desire is to spend the night in jail, that can probably be arranged.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

Almost everyone I have ever seen who inadvertently broke a rule apologized to the RO and looked sheepish. I did see one guy exit red faced after an argument with the range officer about whether or not he could adjust the sights on his Marlin while other folks were down range. I have seen one guy with shooting gloves and a tricked out (to my eye) 1911 get his own private RO standing behind him after a sarcastic reply to a question about whether one had gone into the roof. I don't know whether the shooter put one in the roof or not - but he wasn't making many holes in the target from what I could see.

I am not sure why you would prohibit loading mags outside the booth as long as the gun itself was left in the booth.

I suspect that issue is not only being safe, but appearing safe. From 50 yards away, can you be sure tell that I am only loading rounds into a magazine? I personally don't like to have anyone monkeying with anything near their weapon when I am 50 yards down range.

Many people complain about prohibited actions at a gun range, "I know what I am doing is safe!" But think for a moment about the other side. If you saw someone you'd never seen before doing what you are doing, and didn't have a clear view, would you know that what they were doing was safe?

Rules are rules though. Not my range.

That's the way I see it. It's also the case that the people who administer the range I shoot at are members of a local traditional gun club. It's not like they are anti-gun or making up rules just to make up rules. Often as not, they'll talk to about the shooting sports they're in if you are shooting the same kind of weapon. If I shoot my .45 LC Blackhawk, one of the cowboy action shooters will come over. If I shoot my K31, one of the milsurp guys will come over.

So these guys are not mall ninjas - they are other shooters enforcing rules that a big group of shooters wrote. I personally figure they know more about running a range than I do. I know for sure that they have seen more weapons handling mistakes.

I find more and more RO's get a huge power trip over being the ro to

Be careful here. I have noticed that a new RO is often a good deal more uptight and autocratic than someone who's been doing it for a while. I don't count that as a flaw - I think that it means that they are aware of the responsibility of being an RO, and taking that responsibility seriously. Over a period of time, they seem to relax.

I don't mind a slightly uptight RO even a little bit. Put yourself in their shoes. You have 20 people with lethal weapons in their hands. You are there to make sure that no one accidentally shoots anyone else. The 20 people have all different levels of skills when it comes to shooting, and to safe weapons handling. You are aware that an AD can mean someone being seriously injured. On top of all that, you have to deal with a lot of (almost all) male ego's. Of that 20, there will always be a couple who are damn sure they could outshoot a Marine sniper and outfight a SEAL team. Heck, if you ask them, they'll probably claim they were snipers or SEALs! That might make you a little uptight!

Usually, after a couple of months, they mellow a bit.

But I would rather have them uptight at first than totally casual.

If your idea of a fun afternoon at the range it to spend half your time looking down a muzzle while someone clears a jam or adjust their sights - you can go to any gun store range in town!

Mike

 

[El Tejon]

My range has very large, neon orange metal "Range Closed/ No Shooting" signs (that cost me plenty) because ummm, errr, someone we all know and love did not read the club calendar that said the range was closed for a work day and that someone went shooting that day.

Yes, of course, being polite around people with guns is always a good idea.

 

[JohnnyGrey]

The reason for not loading is that some pistols, upon slide release will fire, even if the trigger is not pulled. Some major name quality handguns (I will not start a flame war) are notorious for doing this when not cleaned properly.

 

[Rumble]

JohnnyGrey -

I think they're only talking about loading magazines at the tables, not putting them in the gun.

 

[paintballdude902]

i dont think i have read the range rules since they mad us do it at boyscout camp lol


most range rules are common sense and my range is outdoor so i have my guns unloaded and in cases until i get to my bench so not a problem

 

[Ed Ames]

My own pet peeve with range rules is the fact that so many ranges try to hide them.

Last range I used had one copy, an old photocopy in a plastic sheet protector, on the counter where you got targets and the like. That's it. You couldn't ask for a printed copy, you couldn't read them on their web page (and they did have a web page) you couldn't see them while on the actual range. Another range I visited recently had big signs saying you had to tell them every caliber you would be shooting but that was the only rule you could see without talking to someone. Even then they didn't have photocopied sheets you could take with you and they didn't have anything on their web page. Dumb.

Following the rules is a lot easier if interested people can know what the rules are in advance. Making it hard for people to learn the rules in advance makes it hard for people to be responsible and raises the risk of rules violations for everyone. It is not that hard to list your range rules on your web page and have a stack of rules sheets printed out and ready to give to people who come in asking about memberships. Is that out of line?

 

[Cosmoline]

I do not understand the mentality of that rule

I don't either. I've only run into it once at a weird little indoor range. Otherwise at every other range I've been to the MAGAZINES can be loaded anywhere you want. They're not firearms, so the rules of safe handling have no application to them. It just strikes me as a way to confuse people and create dangers by adding essentially pointless rules beyond the basics.

Loading up their live mags behind me and toting their guns; not sure if their guns were loaded or not. But I treat every gun as if it were loaded...like the safety rules right?

No such thing as a "live mag." It's not a firearm. If the firearms were being pointed at people, that is of course another matter. But it has nothing to do magazines. Those rules apply whether a mag is loaded, unloaded or even if the pistol has no mag in it.

I find the most frequent problem localy is the most dangerous.......keeping the muzzle pointed downrange!

Ditto that. And touching firearms during a ceasefire! I remember one person who lifted the rifle up and eyed down the barrel while we were waltzing out to check targets. I didn't actually yell, I just pointed and shook my head. It was sort of beyond yelling, in fact I really didn't want to make him twitch!

 

[USAFNoDAk]

Rumble wrote:

I think they're only talking about loading magazines at the tables, not putting them in the gun.


I think that is the case as well. However, from what I've seen at some ranges, they are doing everything they can from a "policy" standpoint to limit the whooping by the lawyers if and when there is some sort of "accident". They want to limit their liability so that the range is in less danger of being closed down with a lawsuit over some reckless activity. Now, I don't consider loading a magazine which is NOT in a firearm, anything reckless at all. However, some people are scared poopless of the damage that run amok lawyers can cause, and rightly so. I believe this follows the old rule that it's better to err on the side of caution. That's my two cents worth.

 

[EAdams]

Possible danger of booth loading

Last year I was loading in a booth at an indoor range and (from what we could figure out) had an ejected 9mm case from the person shooting to my left go over the partition and land on one of the .45 rounds still in the plastic tray I was loading from. The bullet detonated and blew about 10 others out of the tray, one hit my thigh, thought I had been hit by a ricochet at first until I saw the missing bullets, plastic, and burn marks on firing bench. Now when I load in the booth I make sure to cover the bullets or push the tray back into the box before firing. If you want to make an argument against loading only in the booth feel free to use my story

 

[glockman19]

What Range? I've noticed that ranges are only as good as their Range Officers.

If you're talking about The Firing Line Northridge or Burbank, There's your problem.

The Firing Line Ranges have the worst RO's around. They're always busy watching TV, surfing the net, or something other than observing range patrons.

Just don't ask them why their Cal-Ammo Reloads cost more than Factory Ammo. They also charge you for ammo then keep the brass? What's that all about? I keep the brass I pay for and shoot.

Check out A Target range near the Van Nuys Airport, The only other range in the valley, their RO's are all armed, Courteous, helpfull and pay attentiuon to what goes on in their shop or Angeles. I like the outdoor ranges more. Less risk of lead poisioning too. Ever notice that The Firing LIne ranges also don't always have the air circulating?