Rules for a private indoor range?

[1KPerDay]

I've been asked to act as a sort of informal "range officer" for a private indoor range. Any suggestions as to the rules that will be posted and adhered to?

The four rules, obviously. But as for how to tread loading/unloading, whether it will be a 'cold range,' requiring chamber flags etc.... what are your thoughts?

My first instinct is that a cold range would be preferable, i.e., you may load detachable magazines at any time but may only chamber when on the firing line, and must unload and show clear before holstering or leaving the line.

I assume there should there be a separate "prep area" where guns may be uncased/prepared/put away and mags loaded, etc.?

 

[gpr]

my range uses the hot area, before it goes hot, for people coming or going...under range officers supervision....after he gets every body checked in, then it goes hot cycle.....gary

 

[tyeo098]

The one here in Titusville does a "hot" and "cold" range.

Hot range - Weapons loaded, no one is to pass the firing line, all guns remain pointed downrange.
Cold range - Mags out, bolts locked back/open, nobody touches a gun AT ALL.
Im not sure about mag loading during this time, my AR has 3 loaded mags that I load from home, but I would assume it would be ok.

Chamber flags are a PITA, just open the bolts, lock them back to verify. If it doesnt lock, stovepipe it with an empty casing to verify its not in battery.

For "prepping" we just set the cases on the firing table, pointed downrange, and uncase them, keeping them pointed downrange at all times.

 

[mgmorden]

The range I go to doesn't allow any gun handling period except for at the firing line. You get prep yourself or your targets in the prep area, but if you are touching the gun you need to be at the line. I personally like that rule. Just take a look at your average indoor range sometime. Look at all the things that have bullet holes in them where they really shouldn't. In mine, there are bullet impacts all over the floor - in the ceiling beams, and a few in the firing line dividers. There will inevitably be stupid people there that WILL discharge a firearm unintentionally. If they're on the firing line the chance of someone being injured it at least reduced.

That particular range uses pulleys to put out targets so the range is always hot - nobody ever steps into the range except range personnel - and after hours during maintenance.

Aside from that, require ear and eye protection, and the normal 4 rules of gun safety. I wouldn't go much above that though. The ranges that go overboard with the rules (dress codes, no rapid fire, etc) tend to just feel a bit too nanny-ish.

 

[1KPerDay]

Yeh the dress code is going to be eye and ear protection. All else optional.

I was curious about how rifles/shotguns should be treated re: handling... mgmorden, if you can't touch the gun except at the line, how does that work with long guns?

Thanks for all the input so far.

 

[MrWesson]

All the indoor ranges i have been to have a cable operated target holder and are always a hot range.

Outdoor ranges have chamber flags and a red line about 5 feet behind the firing line. Call cold Magazines out actions open with flag in and once everyone is behind the red line go downrange.

 

[Texas Pride]

If it's the type of indoor range that uses the trolly to move the target out, I see no need for a cold range. In fact, I've never seen such a range go cold. Just make it clear that no one moves onto or away from the firing line without clearing their firearms of ammunition and either casing them or locking the action open and pointing up/down as appropriate.

Chamber flags are a bit much but a safety inspectionto ensure the firearm is unloaded and in a "safe" configuration prior to letting people go out onto the firing line makes sense.

Rapid-fire rules are only useful if there is an identifiable safety risk (i.e. a low burm at a small outdoor range that increases risk of firing over the top of it). Untill someone can tell me of another danger that rapid fire poses, I think less of ranges that forbid it.

Rules concerning the picking up of brass are important in cramped indoor ranges. Memorial Shooting Center here in Houston won't allow it all after a fistfight broke out between two reloaders (or so I was informed when I tried to collect my brass on my final visit there). Basically, if it's underneath the guy next to you, you probably shouldn't be trying to pick it up while he's shooting... common sense.

That's all I got for now. I run Army ranges, but not only are we outdoors shooting rifles, but the safety rules are beyond what most civilian customers would tolerate. Then again, there's Bailey's House of Guns in Pearland that only allows one cartridge in a rifle at any time, including AR's. I shoot clays there, but won't touch the rifle line with that ridiculous rule.

 

[mgmorden]

mgmorden, if you can't touch the gun except at the line, how does that work with long guns?

I haven't actually shot any of my long guns at that range (there is a rest but no where to sit, and it's only 25 yards), but the few people that I see do it typically just bring them in in a case and take the gun out at the firing line to load it. For the most part even though the allow rifles 99% of the shooting there is handguns. I think their only reason for allowing the rifles at all is that there is the crowd that is between 18 and 21 that can't easily obtain handguns (nor will they rent a handgun to them), but to let them be able to shoot something on the range they allow (and rent) rifles. Most of their rental rifles as well as what gets brought in are small pistol caliber carbines and AR15's.

The range where I DO go to shoot my long guns is an outdoor range with the only real rules being that you clean up your mess, only shoot during the day, and keep all shots downrange. It's self policed, and the basic self-enforced consensus is that we all just call "range hot" where no one is to be past the line. "Range cold" is called every now and then to change targets. During that time my PERSONAL rule is that I open the bolt of any gun I was handling, stand up and step back from the table (if I'm not changing targets) and don't touch the gun or sit down again until the range goes hot.

Unfortunately without an actual range officer there there's no official requirement on what you must do then aside from "stop shooting". Some people will load up mags and such during cold range which I personally see as a no-no.

 

[Notoast]

We had someone damage our bullet trap by shooting either AP or steel core bullets from a rifle. Now rifle shooters must have their ammo checked with a magnet when they sign in.

 

[xfyrfiter]

If behind the firing line all guns are unloaded and chamber open, cold range same rule goes and you are allowed to stuff mags. Hot range, all non shooters are in cold prep area, and only shooters at the line, only exception is for instructors. As always eyes and ears are required.

 

[Avenger]

One thing that had bugged me about indoor range rules: make sure that the range does something to make shooters AWARE that there IS a range officer, and that "you is him"...and that you have the power to bind and to loose...or say "Put pressure on that, I'll call the ambulance."

 

[Nushif]

I'd go with a "less is more" approach. Before you go around dictating what people *shouldn't* do, imagine the kind of thing you'd like to see and then encourage that in your rules.

Instead of saying "Don't use XYZ ammo" and "Wear this!" and "Don't touch your gun!" add qualifiers.
"XYZ ammo damages our backstop." "Ensure you're protected from flying brass." "Handle your gun responsibly and be aware of all others on the line."

Frankly, the moment I see a ginormous sign telling me what to wear, where to stand, how many bullets I'm allowed to have, how fast I'm allowed to shoot, whom to cower to and when I'm allowed to touch my gun I don't go to a range anymore. Chances are, the more restrictive a range is the less I go to it, simply because I feel like they don't trust me there. So why should I give them my money?
I do much better when people give me reasons instead of preaching some random rules at me. You follow?

 

[1KPerDay]

I just learned there will be overhead electric track-type target holders. So I'm thinking the "downrange is always hot" system might work just fine.

Always follow the 4 rules, and don't insert loaded mags into the weapon or load the cylinder/chamber unless on the firing line. That sounds good to me at this point.

 

[Pete D.]

I am charged with operating a small indoor range at a private rod and gun club in Brooklyn, NY (NYC).
The six point 50 ft. range is in the basement of a building on a residential block; it is separated from the neighboring structure (a residence) by a demising wall. No shooting past 9:30 PM or before 9 AM.
All shooters must sign in and produce a permit.
Both eye and ear protection are mandatory.
All guns must be cased and uncased on the firing line. All guns.
Pistols - no more than five rounds in any cylinder or magazine. The most powerful cartridge that we allow is the .44 magnum. No CF rifles.
Rapid fire. While it is permitted, range officers are instructed to monitor rapid fire carefully. Why? Many shooters - i have observed - have a marked tendency to shoot "down" at a target close in, as opposed to shooting "level". The result indoors is that bullets do not make it to the backstop but skid in about three feet before. It is a very common problem even with experienced shooters; though it is readily observable by a second party, they are unaware that they do it. (Unless, of course, a bullet fragment blows one of the lights in the floor recesses.)
Shooters must clean up their brass before leaving.
Pete

 

[Husker_Fan]

Like others, all the indoor ranges I've been to are always hot. It keeps things simple, and I now feel more comfortable with strangers at indoor ranges than outdoor ones. It seems people with less experience at a range tend to get confused with chamber flags and other rules at hot/cold ranges.

Of course, the worst thing I saw was another reloader getting his brass from FORWARD of the firing line at an indoor range. Make sure people know that if anything goes ahead of the line, it is gone.

 

[Nushif]

Pistols - no more than five rounds in any cylinder or magazine.

I gotta ask ... why?

 

[Pete D.]

rounds

I gotta ask ... why?

That's a reasonable question. My personal response - not the rationale for the rule - is a question also... Why would it be necessary to load more?
What kind of practice can you do at an indoor range that demands more than five shots?
In any case, that's just me. I have a feeling, since the club and its rules go back sixty years, that the fellas who wrote the rules had similar feelings.
More practically, there is noise. We are well baffled but there is no ignoring that our neighbor is a few brick thicknesses away, that we are on a residential street in the City of New York.
When I am approaching the club and someone is shooting, I can hear the thumps. We keep the strings of thumps to a minimum.
The public ranges that I use out in PA.....five round limit. The PA Fish and Game people must have their reasons too.

Pete

 

[Nushif]

What kind of practice can you do at an indoor range that demands more than five shots?

An El Presidente on three targets hanging next to each other? An attempt at doing a really long and consistent ten round group? (Ten rounds consistently is surprisingly hard.)
I don't often load more than five myself (mainly because they come so nicely out of the box in those rows) but if a club had that here in OR people would do a bit more than raise their eyebrows. It just wouldn't be received well.
I sincerely hope the five round limit exists mainly to appease the fact that it's in NYC. Because my guess would be that 90% of the "five round only" rules happen because the rules were written by people who didn't like the "black gun" crowd, from what I've seen. Mainly hunters, remarkably. At least around here.

 

[Tom488]

That's a reasonable question. My personal response - not the rationale for the rule - is a question also... Why would it be necessary to load more?

Well, following that line of thought... why is it necessary to load more than one? What's so bad that's going to happen with 6 rounds vs. 5? Let's not go down the, "why do you need...." road. That ends up in a very bad place.

To answer the question of why load more.... because the firearm was designed to do so. How would I ever determine if I had a bad mag for my 1911 unless I could load all 7, or 8, rounds? Maybe it only experiences feed problems with a full magazine. So, because of your range rules, I can't load more than 5, so I never find out... until I get home, load it up, put it in the nightstand, and only find out when the bad guy comes in the middle of the night, and my only means of self-defense goes "click" instead of "bang".

As to the question of noise.... if I'm doing slow-fire, believe me, you won't hear a lick of difference if I fire one magazine of 15 rounds, or 3 magazines of 5 rounds each. So, no real point there...

You want to curtail the spray-and-pray crowd? You said you already do that with regulating rapid-fire to those who can demonstrate competency. The idiot who's going to send rounds ricocheting off the floor is going to do it with a 5 round magazine, as well.

 

[MrWesson]

I gotta ask ... why?

Because its NYC and even the gun ranges have ridiculous regulations .

 

[Pete D.]

Well, following that line of thought... why is it necessary to load more than one? What's so bad that's going to happen with 6 rounds vs. 5? Let's not go down the, "why do you need...." road. That ends up in a very bad place.

From what I can tell, the five round rule, when it was enacted at this range 60 years ago, is related to the Bullseye match five shot string. Y'know that was back in the day before H-cap magazines were the rule. The average shooter had never heard of an AK-47. AR or M14? Glocks? What are they?

Actually, though, I agree with that rhetorical question about loading one. For much of the shooting that I do, I could get by with single loading. When I shoot a Free Pistol match, two hours to shoot 60 shots, it's single loaded. Same thing at a Smallbore Prone match.
I also agree that "need" is a very dangerous word....that is why I avoided using it. "necessary" has somewhat different connotations. (I may feel the need to do something that, as far as others are concerned, is unnecessary.)
I can understand why a shooter wants to load more than five, not why he or she has to..
In any case, they are what they are. The rules are as old as I am and I am ok with them.
For good or ill, the five round rule is not unusual in my experience. Any range at which I have shot in NY, NJ, PA has had a posted five round limit (sometimes six for revolvers.) Of course there are a lot of ranges that I haven't used.
The old Huntington range had a single load rule for rifles and a five shot rule for handguns. I already mentioned the PA F&G ranges....so the restrictions are not uncommon. Food for thought for the OP.
People in NYC are happy just to have a range.
Pete
PS and BTW - That "the firearm is designed to hold" thing. I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of machines (a gun is a machine) that are designed to do things that they are never asked to do...or that may not be legal.....Cars come to mind. I own a fast car, designed to do 130 at least and comfortably. Can't think of anywhere it'd be permitted by the rules. Have I ever tested it to see that it works? You betcha.
Enough hijacking for me.

 

[Pete D.]

Duplicate

 

[Pete D.]

Ditto

 

[Pete D.]

Forgive the misspellings......typed on an iPhone and too hard to edit.
Pete