cowboy 6 shooter
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Father Knows Best
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The Italian guns are pretty poor quality, and generally need the attention of a good gunsmith. A much better value is the Ruger Vaquero or New Vaquero. They're also much stronger and more reliable. The New Vaquero comes in .357 magnum and .45 Colt. The Vaquero is a bit larger, but you can get it in 44 magnum, if that floats your boat. The 44 mag has the advantage of being able to chamber and fire 44 special and 44 Russian, also. Finally, the Rugers are safe to carry with six rounds, making them true "six shooters." Colts and clones cannot be safely loaded with six rounds -- you need to keep the hammer down on an empty chamber, i.e., "five beans in the wheel."
20cows
Member
I don't believe that is true across the board. I have an older Uberti (made in the early to mid 90's) that I'm quite pleased with. I have friends that have had good luck with the ones made for Cimmaron Arms (Uberti also).
Father Knows Best
Member
I've had a lot of experience in the last few years with Uberti revolvers. Very occasionally, you get lucky and find one that doesn't need much work. Those are the rare exception to the rule. Uberti's tolerances are loose, metallurgy is poor, and they do almost no finishing of the parts. The internals are extremely rough. There are casting and tool marks everywhere -- even across the face of springs, which is a huge problem because they act as stress risers and cause premature spring failure. Uberti hand springs are notoriously weak -- so weak that any real CAS competitor using Ubertis either replaces them with custom springs or keeps a couple of spares on hand for the inevitable hand spring failure in the middle of a match. The main springs last a little longer (5-10,000 rounds, typically), but still nowhere near as long as you'd get from a quality flat spring, and maybe 1% of the life of a Ruger coil spring.
Because the internals of the Uberti revolvers are so rough, and friction is so high, Uberti has to use heavy springs to make the guns operate at all. Those heavy springs, of course, make the gun less pleasant to shoot, and make it wear out quicker. Lots of people think that a heavy-hammered and heavy-triggered Uberti can be smoothed up just by dropping in aftermarket springs from someone like Wolff, but they quickly learn that with the lighter springs the gun won't work reliably. The lighter springs just don't have the oomph to overcome the drag caused by poorly fitted and rough internals and slots in the receiver.
The last few new Ubertis I've inspected also have rear barrel faces that weren't square, cylinder gaps that were undersize, visible tool marks in the miscut forcing cones, and timing that was off.
Uberti may have made some nice guns at one time, and they may still get lucky and ship an occasional good one, but it's clear that their general MO is poor QC and no inspection.
Ubertis can still be made to work reasonably reliably, but they'll require the attention of a good 'smith to polish the internals and adjust the timing, and they should generally receive some better springs.
By contrast, a Ruger will work well and reliably right out of the box. A little attention from a 'smith won't hurt, and will often make them more pleasant to shoot, but they typically don't need it. And Ruger's better metallurgy (in both the frame and springs) and improved design means they will handle heavier loads and last a lot longer.
Because the internals of the Uberti revolvers are so rough, and friction is so high, Uberti has to use heavy springs to make the guns operate at all. Those heavy springs, of course, make the gun less pleasant to shoot, and make it wear out quicker. Lots of people think that a heavy-hammered and heavy-triggered Uberti can be smoothed up just by dropping in aftermarket springs from someone like Wolff, but they quickly learn that with the lighter springs the gun won't work reliably. The lighter springs just don't have the oomph to overcome the drag caused by poorly fitted and rough internals and slots in the receiver.
The last few new Ubertis I've inspected also have rear barrel faces that weren't square, cylinder gaps that were undersize, visible tool marks in the miscut forcing cones, and timing that was off.
Uberti may have made some nice guns at one time, and they may still get lucky and ship an occasional good one, but it's clear that their general MO is poor QC and no inspection.
Ubertis can still be made to work reasonably reliably, but they'll require the attention of a good 'smith to polish the internals and adjust the timing, and they should generally receive some better springs.
By contrast, a Ruger will work well and reliably right out of the box. A little attention from a 'smith won't hurt, and will often make them more pleasant to shoot, but they typically don't need it. And Ruger's better metallurgy (in both the frame and springs) and improved design means they will handle heavier loads and last a lot longer.
MrAcheson
Member
The rugers are good guns. Ubertis are also much better than Papa Knows Best indicates. I know many people who shoot CAS who like them. Far more swear by them than at them.
Father Knows Best
Member
I shoot CAS with Ubertis, also, and I don't swear at them. Of course, mine have all been worked over to make them the way that Uberti should have made them in the first place.
I don't know anyone who shoots CAS with box-stock Ubertis, except for newbies. They may get by with box stock Ubertis for a couple of matches, but if they get serious they wind up sending them off to a gunsmith. If they don't, they break. When buying a new Uberti, you just need to figure in the $75-100 cost of a decent action job.
On the other hand, I know scores of pards who shoot CAS with box-stock Rugers.
I don't know anyone who shoots CAS with box-stock Ubertis, except for newbies. They may get by with box stock Ubertis for a couple of matches, but if they get serious they wind up sending them off to a gunsmith. If they don't, they break. When buying a new Uberti, you just need to figure in the $75-100 cost of a decent action job.
On the other hand, I know scores of pards who shoot CAS with box-stock Rugers.
BluesBear
member
SASS#23149
Member
Have to agree with FKB ..
I have two italian made guns,one is a very slick and nice looking Uberti...on the outside.
On the inside...the charge holes are so sloppy a .454 bullet will rattle around in the exit hole,several hand springs have broken,tool marks galore in side,and the hammer needs replacing as the cam is 'rolled over' due to being soft metal,compared to a colt.
My 40 year old Blackhawk will shoot rings around it and shows no signs of aging like the much newer Uberti does.
I"d take a serious look at the Vaqueros,either new or old model depending on your likes for the 2 frames.I really like the feel of the new model,very colt-like.Don't shoot 'ruger only' loads in 'em though...KABOOM!!
I have two italian made guns,one is a very slick and nice looking Uberti...on the outside.
On the inside...the charge holes are so sloppy a .454 bullet will rattle around in the exit hole,several hand springs have broken,tool marks galore in side,and the hammer needs replacing as the cam is 'rolled over' due to being soft metal,compared to a colt.
My 40 year old Blackhawk will shoot rings around it and shows no signs of aging like the much newer Uberti does.
I"d take a serious look at the Vaqueros,either new or old model depending on your likes for the 2 frames.I really like the feel of the new model,very colt-like.Don't shoot 'ruger only' loads in 'em though...KABOOM!!
Gunsnrovers
Member
USFA Rodeo.
Smooth as silk and the black finish looks awesome with age.
I'm glad I dumped my Italian pistols when I picked one up.
Smooth as silk and the black finish looks awesome with age.
I'm glad I dumped my Italian pistols when I picked one up.
Father Knows Best
Member
USFA indeed makes some fine guns. I have a pair of Rodeos and a Single Action Army. The SAA is probably the finest revolver I have ever owned. The Rodeos are extremely well built, too, but the modern finish (matte black) just doesn't light my fire. USFAs are quite a bit more money than either the Italians or Rugers, but the price difference isn't so much when you realize you won't have to pay a 'smith $100 to polish and refit the internals for you, as you would with the Italian guns.
Luckily, I bought my Rodeos a couple years ago when they were still available at around $450 each. I think they've gone up a lot since then.
Luckily, I bought my Rodeos a couple years ago when they were still available at around $450 each. I think they've gone up a lot since then.
MikeyBee
Member
I like my Uberti Cattleman .357 as it is... Right out of the box.
I don't know much about all the various makes and models and know even less about gunsmithing.
I do know that the first round I fired hit the center of a 1" bullseye at 25'. I fell immediately in love.
This is the first gun I've ever owned (although I fired plenty in the Corps) and I'm sure as I learn about, try and buy more makes and models, my tastes may change.
Right now, though, I love my Cattleman.
I don't know much about all the various makes and models and know even less about gunsmithing.
I do know that the first round I fired hit the center of a 1" bullseye at 25'. I fell immediately in love.
This is the first gun I've ever owned (although I fired plenty in the Corps) and I'm sure as I learn about, try and buy more makes and models, my tastes may change.
Right now, though, I love my Cattleman.
A question for you guys about Uberti and Beretta
Okay, now that Beretta owns Uberti, will the quality be better? I own a Stampede in .357 that Uberti makes under the Beretta name and I know the specs were changed for these Beretta revolvers.(Not interested in flames about the safety mech. built in - we've been through that plenty here.)
By the way, I only shoot the Stampede for fun as I am not a competitive shooter. I've put 100 rounds of .357 and about 450 rounds of .38 through it. It's tight and shoots nicely.
Frandy
Okay, now that Beretta owns Uberti, will the quality be better? I own a Stampede in .357 that Uberti makes under the Beretta name and I know the specs were changed for these Beretta revolvers.(Not interested in flames about the safety mech. built in - we've been through that plenty here.)
By the way, I only shoot the Stampede for fun as I am not a competitive shooter. I've put 100 rounds of .357 and about 450 rounds of .38 through it. It's tight and shoots nicely.
Frandy
Father Knows Best
Member
I don't know, Frandy. I haven't had the opportunity to examine any Stampedes closely, but I hear good things about them.
Father Knows Best
Member
Ooooh ... that's purty. I love the long tubes on Peacekeepers.
HI ALL
interesting thread...I have several italian guns and vaqueros. I have thousands of rounds through my uberti 45lc cattleman, shoots great, accurate, I have had to replace one hand.
I have had a lot of luck with the armi san marco 51 navy conversions in 38 spl, accurate, nice triggers, my original two have thousands of rounds through them without any trouble.
my 2 vaqueros are nice as well but a little big for my hand.
I think the professionals that win a lot of the CASS use vaqueros because you get a lot of gun for the money which will hold up to a lot of use but most other casual shooters can do quite well with the uberti's and most of the parts which need replacing such as hands, mainsprings, can be replaced with colt parts with some minor fitting.
doc
interesting thread...I have several italian guns and vaqueros. I have thousands of rounds through my uberti 45lc cattleman, shoots great, accurate, I have had to replace one hand.
I have had a lot of luck with the armi san marco 51 navy conversions in 38 spl, accurate, nice triggers, my original two have thousands of rounds through them without any trouble.
my 2 vaqueros are nice as well but a little big for my hand.
I think the professionals that win a lot of the CASS use vaqueros because you get a lot of gun for the money which will hold up to a lot of use but most other casual shooters can do quite well with the uberti's and most of the parts which need replacing such as hands, mainsprings, can be replaced with colt parts with some minor fitting.
doc
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