Coyote in the yard, kids playing

[BeLikeTrey]

"Grape nuts eaters have been called lots of things"

"They just haven't heard it".... (crunch crunch crunch) I know you've seen that commercial...

Happy hunting, and hopefully they won't hear that 10/22 while they are crunching on their grapenuts. Family first, "gods creatures" a distant second.

Don't forget to check on neighbors and the garbage-food issue. Let us know about this as it develops. Good Luck!

 

[Swamprabbit]

Fortunately, for me, I live out where I don't have any neighbors very close. I have coyotes coming up around my house almost every night (judging by all the barking and yelping going on). I do have a couple of dogs and there seems to be a truce between them and the coyotes. The coyotes don't actually come into the yard and the dogs, in turn, don't bother barking at the coyotes out in the fields and woods around the house. The only issue I have with them is that they do keep some of us awake at night with all their racket. I do enjoy staying outside late at night and just listening to them.

My suggestion is that if the coyote is acting aggressively, I would notify Animal Control since it is in an urban area. Otherwise, if you feel you do need to take matters into your own hands, I would recommend a shotgun. If the coyote is too far out for the scattergun, it is probably in a neighbor's yard anyway.

If it is coming around the neighborhood then that means that there is food available for it. You may want to try to find out where it is eating and eliminate that source.

 

[ScottsGT]

As far as the food source, I walked around the area yesterday after work and got a good whiff of something that smelled like rotting dead animal. And I noticed "Sparkey", the neighbors small dog has not been barking lately. We use to have a lot of rabbits running around the yard too. Have not seen any lately. So I'm thinking the food source was fresh live meat they were after. Did not see any last night, but it was raining.

 

[1911Tuner]

A Warning

I can sympathize...Coyotes' numbers are on the rise, and since
its habitat is shrinking, they're gonna show up in populated areas
sooner or later. We've got'em here too....but they're shy and keep
their distance.

Coyotes, like Racoons and Foxes, are nocturnal. If you see either one prowling around during daylight hours, there's a good chance that it's rabid, especially if it's freeroaming in close proximity to people and doesn't
seem to be afraid of a barking dog...which they generally try to avoid.

If it's rabid, and close to the final stages of the disease...the "Furious Stage" bait won't work because swallowing is painful in that stage, and drives the animal into fits. From the time that a rabid animal begins to show signs of the disease, one of which is a reversal of its nature...total
lack of fear of humans being the most notable...until it "Goes Mad"
is short...about 72 hours. If you're gonna bait him up for a head shot,
now is the time.

The upside is that shortly after the beginning of the furious stage, the animal starts running in an attempt to get away from the sickness,
so it may not be in the area for long. The downside is that, as it tries to
escape, it travels for long distances, increasing the chances that it will infect other animals or even people along the way. Death usually follows within 72 hours of the onset of this stage. This 72 hour period is when
we see the telltale signs of hydrophobia. Staggering like a drunk...Blindly
attacking anything in its path...Foaming at the mouth, etc. The foaming
happens because the animal can't swallow its saliva, and the danger of infection is high during this stage because the virus is transmitted through
the saliva...and there's a lot of it on the animal's muzzle.

Until the onset of this stage, the animal may be perfectly calm, or even
friendly...too friendly. It may even approach you and lick your hand before
it attacks.


If you kill it, don't touch it. All it takes is a scratch on your skin. Don't let your dog near it, even if it's been vaccinated. Pour ammonia over the carcass and cover it up with lime and call animal control. If you don't have any lime, a heavy blanket will do. Hold your breath while you do this. If you can, post somebody near it to ward off dogs and curious onlookers.

Take care, and good luck.

Tuner

 

[ScottsGT]

Great tips Tuner. Not sure if this one was trying to protect young, or rabid, but I'll keep everyone clear.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Mighty welcome Scott.

Now...You think YOU'VE got problems...We've got a Black Bear
sniffin' around the area. 5 people have spotted him in the last week,
and from the descriptions, I'm estimating his weight at 300+ pounds.
I've tracked him into his bedding area, and he's stickin' pretty close
to that, but he's been seen amblin' across a few yards, and has played hell with some garbage cans since he's staked out the neighborhood. Now
I know why the dogs have been goin' ballistic through the night...
I found fresh tracks less than a hundred yards from my property
just yesterday.

I suppose he'll wander back up to Pilot Mountain when he gets the call to
go make little bears...They usually do.

Later on!

Tuner

 

[444]

ScottsGT: That is very touching, and I understand that you don't want your children molested by coyotes however I think you are missing something. You saw a coyote, paniced, shot at it, notified the neighbors, posted on the internet, explored all kinds of dramatic options to kill it but you know what ? if there is one there are thousands of them. There was probably at least one other one watching this whole thing unfold. You are not going to make the slightest difference by shooting one coyote. Man has been trying to wipe out the coyote for a century: traps, poison, shooting, running them with dogs, running them with heilocopters, you name it and it has been done. Guess what ? Not only didn't they succeed but coyotes now are living comfortably in places no one ever dreamed and there are more of them than ever. You might as well be stepping on ants.

"Coyotes, like Racoons and Foxes, are nocturnal. If you see either one prowling around during daylight hours, there's a good chance that it's rabid, especially if it's freeroaming in close proximity to people and doesn't
seem to be afraid of a barking dog...which they generally try to avoid."

I totally disagree with this. Coyotes are one of the smartest animals out there. They are certainly the most adaptable. I don't think coyotes have any hard and fast rules like not going out in the daylight, not going around dogs, or staying away from people. Coyotes know what they can get away with and pretty much do whatever they want to. I see coyotes all the time during the day. I see coyotes all the time in close proximity to people. I see coyotes killing and eating dogs. 90% of the coyote hunting I have done was during the day. We call them and they come, they don't care what time of day it is. I see several coyotes a week, and I am not even looking for them. Every single one of them I see is during the day.

 

[1911Tuner]

Mo' 'Yotes

certainly the most adaptable. I don't think coyotes have any hard and fast rules like not going out in the daylight, not going around dogs, or staying away from people.
____________________

Adaptable for sure....and your assessment may be spot on in Nevada,
but their behavior pattern here in the Southeastern U.S is much different.
I've seen them in close proximity only at night, and only briefly.

I've seen them during the day, but not around populated areas. I know
that they're here...but we catch a glimpse only rarely during daylight hours.
They own the nights, however...and whenever somebody's male dog goes missing, we know that somewhere, a female Coyote in season has invited him to dinner.

Sometimes, wildlife knowledge depends on what longitude and latitude
you're standin' in...For South Carolina Coyotes...I stand by what I said.

Cheers all!

Tuner

 

[Stand_Watie]

Scott I think that the coyotes pose a greater danger to your child than the bear. I keep a couple of dogs, and anytime I'm choosing a dog, part of the consideration is it has to be large enough to not be an easy mouthful for a coyote. I feel a lot better about my child playing in the yard, because I know if Wile E. shows up there'll be a hellacious tangle.

I'd be much more worried about the suburban coyotes that you apparently have than the rural coyotes where I live.



AZrick posted this earlier.

http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/awm/docs/coyoteattacks.pdf

COYOTE ATTACKS: AN INCREASING SUBURBAN PROBLEM*


Robert M. Timm, Hopland Research & Extension Center, University of California, Hopland, California
Rex O. Baker, California State Polytechnic University-Pomona (retired), Corona, California
Joe R. Bennett, USDA APHIS Wildlife Services, Taft, California
Craig C. Coolahan, USDA APHIS Wildlife Services, Sacramento, California


Introduction Coyote (Canis latrans) attacks on humans, once thought to be rare, have increased in frequency over the past decade. In expanding suburban areas such as those found in several counties in Southern California, residential developments are often near steep, brushy wildland areas. Coyotes inhabiting such wildlands are drawn into suburban landscaped environments that can support an abundance of rodents and rabbits, and where they can utilize water sources, pet food, household refuse, and even house cats and small dogs as prey.
Our observations indicate that in the absence of harassment by residents, coyotes can lose their fear of people and come to associate humans with this safe, resource-rich environment. This problem is exacerbated by people who intentionally feed coyotes. In such situations, some coyotes have begun to act aggressively toward humans, chasing joggers and bicyclists, confronting people walking their dogs, and stalking small children...

 

[BeLikeTrey]

Agreed.

444 are you in a more rural area?
seeing Wil E. in the day is no biggie but in more urban areas they do go nocturnal to avoid "predators" (man)
I agree though that they are not exclusively nocturnal, as I was turkey hunting in the day time and had that brazen yote come in on me.

The difference is that this one is not afraid to make his presence known in business hours and has been living off of humans' scraps and pets it looks like. Small children (I know this sounds like "the dingo ate your baby") are just as susceptible as little Sparky next door. He has growled at them rather than avoid them. I think, at least, it is a little agressive for an animal considered more covert than overt. This can only escalate from this point as these animals move in and bring their friends. ME? All I am saying (and Tuner I think) is I would prefer to cut this behavior short and place a healthy fear of man and populated areas back into the pack that this miscreant belongs to. Culling the herd a bit may help to accomplish this.

 

[444]

Yes, I live in a fairly rural area: not out in the middle of no where, but certainly not inner city or even the suburbs.
I certainly am not familiar with Eastern coyotes and maybe their habits are different than Western coyotes. One thing that might account for this (assuming it is true) is that in the East coyotes have a much easier life. Water isn't scarce and food is abundant. Their Western desert counterparts have to work at survival. I am sure this brings them into more urban areas because of the easy food and water. Drinking water from someone's birdbath or lawn sprinkler is easier than finding water in the desert and eating garbage or house cats is easier than chasing down prey in the wild. But the same applies to Eastern coyotes I am sure. They learned where the easy pickings are and adapt accordingly.
I am not so sure that coyotes consider man to be a predator in urban areas. Don't get me wrong, they will certainly run from man anywhere but coyotes seem to learn what they can get away with. For example when coyote calling it is said that if you call in a coyote with a given call (dying rabbit for example) and it scents you, or you miss, it will never come to that call again. It associates that call with danger. In urban areas, man isn't much of a threat to coyotes. They run around pretty much unmolested. Because they are unmolested, they become more brazen. I mentioned previously about Scotty's Castle. For those of you who don't know what that is, it is a house built in Death Valley that is a tourist attraction. My parents were visiting me and I took them there. My mother made the comment that she had never seen a coyote. I told her that I bet we will see some in Death Valley since it is in a California park where I am sure they do not allow varmint hunting. Although I was surprised at what we ended up seeing. Coyotes were freely roaming around the parking lot eating from the garbage cans and stuff people dropped. These particular coyotes don't view humans as a threat since humans have never been a threat to them. I am sure they wouldn't come right up and eat out of your hand, but the fact that you are standing 10 yards away doesn't seem to bother them in the least. They adapt to their conditions. That is the reason they are so plentiful.
I also wonder, 1911, if you see more of them at night because of their eyes reflecting light alerting you to their presence ? They are pretty sneaky and might be there and you just don't know it. I am sure that many people who arn't used to seeing coyotes running around see them and assume they are a loose dog.
I am not trying to be argumentitve here and I am not trying to be a jerk. But I would wager that coyotes have been around ScottsGT's house for a long time. And I would wager that there are plenty of them. It just so happens that he saw one and now realizes there might be a problem. I personally don't see this as a situation that demands any kind of real aggressive action although danger to children certainly exists. He certainly needs to keep an eye on his children and take whatever action is nessessary to protect them. But there is no reason to fly off the handle about seeing one coyote.

 

[ScottsGT]

444,
I think your on to something about western vs. eastern coyotes. There are no natural enemies for them here other than man. Out west there are the big cats, wolves, etc. Our first sighting was about 3 or 4 weeks back. The wife saw it and thought it was a realy big cat. I guess it was the bushy tail. At first I thought she was describing a fox, but when I saw those long legs, I knew what it was. Again, my biggest fear was the rabies issue, but according to the biologist, this time of the year they are having to feed the young, and will come out in search of it anywhere or anytime.

 

[sumpnz]

Before my wife and I got dogs and fenced in about 1/3 of our acre we saw coyotes running through the yard all the time. In broad daylight. We still see them going through the neighbor's yards on occassion.

My neighbor was walking her elderly collie just the other day at around 10AM and was nearly attacked by 3 or 4 coyotes (they were trying to box her in when finally something spooked them and they took off). They were probably after her dog, not her, but still disconcerting.

BTW, I do have a child myself. She's only 2.5 months old right now, but I worry about coyotes whenever my wife goes for a walk with her. I also worry about them attacking my wife when she goes for a run. This is at least part of the reason why even she is wanting a pistol for protection.

I know I'm repeating myself here, but I really think the best thing is to calm down (including your wife and kids) and not worry about it, but be prepared. Keep that .22 handy, or better yet get a .410 or 20-28 gauge shotgun and keep it handy. If you see a coyote acting aggresivly, shoot the mofo. Best yet, fence off your yard. Be aware that a 5' fence will barely slow a determined coyote down, but it will make your kids and pets a less attractive food source because of the extra work involved.

 

[444]

I agree, be aware, be prepared but don't panic.
Even if it is illegal, I have a hard time believing you would get in any serious trouble if you had to shoot a coyote in your yard to protect your children. Personally, I would keep a rifle handy with ammo handy just in case something happens and I would not choose the rifle based on it's report.

 

[ScottsGT]

I guess the one reason I'm sticking to the 10/22 is that my other choice would be the AR-15. Would make great press, "Man saves childrens lives with ASSAULT rifle", but then again, the cops might view me as some kind of nutcase if questions are asked and I whip out the AR to show them the firearm used.

 

[sumpnz]

the cops might view me as some kind of nutcase if questions are asked and I whip out the AR to show them the firearm used.

Hence the recommendation for a shotgun. A .410 probably won't be any louder than the AR, and possibly not even as loud. At any range you're likely to be shooting a coyote at, it will also be just as effective. As Swamprabbit said "If the coyote is too far out for the scattergun, it is probably in a neighbor's yard anyway." The other advantage is that if you miss and happen to hit the only rock in the entire hill that would be your backstop, even that .22 could bounce quite a ways, whereas the shot from the scattergun probably won't go far at all.

 

[1911Tuner]

Mo' 'Yotes

Howdy 444,

No offense taken. Just a point of geography. Sometimes the wildlife habits are determined by the habitat. Plenty of fresh water streams andponds hearabouts, and rabbits out the wazoo. No reason for'em to
scavenge in the Burbs.

The ones we see at night around here are usually caught in the headlights when they're shreddin' a roadkill, and they split pretty quick. The ones that
we do happen to see in the daylight don't stick around for long when the realize they've been spotted. Heavy drought and/or disease in the small critter population might change all that.

As for overreacting on the siting of one Coyote... I'd get a mite nervytoo, if I saw one in my yard in close proximity to a small child. You said it yourself.
They're pack hunters. There's never just one...

The bear doesn't bother us...We're used to'em. He is makin a mess of the garbage cans and diggin' for grubs at the bases of trees though...

 

[Art Eatman]

FWIW: I ran across a news article a few days ago of a coyote attack, somewhere around a smaller city/town in California. Wasn't specific about the scene, but it wasn't rural.

Anyhow, a coyote grabbed a four-year-old child by the hand. Parent or neighbor heard the screams and the adult's coming to the scene scared the coyote away.

Art

 

[PATH]

I live in the suburbs of New York and they are here. Most of the time you never see them. They live in large woodland park areas. They make forays into neighborhoods. One neighborhood near me had an attack two years ago. A lady let her dog out in a fenced yard. Coyote somehow got in and killed little fluffy!

I have never seen one during the day. I don't trust them. They are too smart for their own good. If an animal realizes your child is easy prey it won't be long till the yote takes a chance. As they imprint on our garbage and pets as an easy source of food it will be only a matter of time before they take the next step.

I say end him!

 

[444]

A guy I work with was dating a girl that lived in a very upscale southern California beach community. She had some kind of foo foo dog that she treated like a child.
They hear a commontion outside and look out. A coyote was jumping over and eight foot block wall with the dog in it's mouth.
He almost bit his tounge in half to keep himself from laughing.

 

[Stand_Watie]

Here is some interesting (I thought) food for thought. Coyotes are newcomers to South Carolina. I think the exploding deer population and the dramatic (until very recently) decrease in large predator population probably accounts largely for coyotes moving eastward.

I think the natural and healthy state of large predators is for them to co-exist with man by being naturally shy and fearful of man. I think being overly tolerant of large predators is as bad for their gene pool as is indiscriminately killing them all, as we saw in the US a century ago.

There is some really cool info here

http://www.forestry.auburn.edu/ditchkoff/Course Pages/6290/lecimag-carn1.htm

Some examples of the info here (I kind of wish I'd gotten my degree in forestry now)

Coyote range: presettlement times

Coyote range: around 1900

Eastward expansion of coyotes during the 1900s

Competitive exclusion of carnivores in North America

 

[sumpnz]

So it looks like the Great Plains was the real historical range of the coyotes, but when White Man arrived and really started to mess with both prey and predator populations (overhunting of elk, attempts to wipe out wolves, and to a lesser extent cougars) it gave an opportunity for the ever opportunistic coyote to spread.

Hmmm, interesting.

 

[Stand_Watie]

so it looks like the Great Plains was the real historical range of the coyotes, but when White Man arrived and really started to mess with both prey and predator populations (overhunting of elk, attempts to wipe out wolves, and to a lesser extent cougars) it gave an opportunity for the ever opportunistic coyote to spread.

That was my take on it. Don't get me wrong, the American Indians weren't shy about indiscriminate killing of wildlife, but their lifestyle was such that their population numbers stayed low enough that they didn't really effect it in the way that the europeanization of America did.

Amber waves of grain across America have meant an explosion of deer and small game animals - followed by an explosion of the one predator that is not particularly fearful of man. Truly large predators were killed because they were an obvious threat to domesticated game, which lead to a further exploitation by the coyotes.

p.s. Ben Franklin beat me to the punch when he said that the American national bird should be the turkey (another beautiful game animal that I love to see reestablishing itself in northeastern America), but mr. Wile e. is the predator that I think best epitomizes the resourcefulness of the American spirit.

 

[BeLikeTrey]

so...

After all that discussion here... Did you get him yet? Any new sightings? Find Sparky, or evidence?

 

[ScottsGT]

Two sightings yesterday. One early in the evening about 7PM as I was opening my car door in the driveway. About 60 ft back in the back yard under some red tip shrubs I saw a small outline of a head watching me. He disappeared when he noticed that I stopped what I was doing to look at him. Then last night about 11:00 I spotted him again using the surefire. The wife actually got to see him this time, not just the glowing eyes. But it was only one this time.
I modified the food chain chart a little.