CPX2 Catridges

[ExAgoradzo]

Between the .243 and the 7mm-08 there are several flavors of essentially a ‘deer rifle’ (note: I’m not talking about the .257 WBY for example).

I’m all about various flavors. I like the Elvis special ice cream my wife likes the rocky road and we get to eat it together: works like a charm.

And there are reasons for these flavors (I’m talking about rifles/cartridges again). More or less recoil; sentimental rifle/cartridge; you got out of bed and got your head so you like the 6mmRem ; pick a flavor...

But here’s my point. When I bought this type of rifle I got the Swede (Sako-beautiful rifle). That was the flavor I picked. But aside from the flavor side of things (there’s no accounting for taste...) it seems to me there is actually very litttle difference within this class of cartridge. You want less recoil go towards the .243 side; you want more power go towards the 7-08 side. Am I right?

What I would like to know from THR is,
1. Fundamentally, is there a difference? I mean if you want something bigger than what this class of rifle offers go to the .270 Win or like cartridge...
and 2. Why did you pick yours (even if it is pure sentimentality...g-pas gun or like reason...)?

Hoping for a fun conversation...

Greg

 

[mgmorden]

1. Not a lot. Some cartridges might be better at longer ranges, but almost all of them are fine at the ranges most people are hunting at.
2. Variety. I personally am a "collector". Not just of guns - I've always loved collecting things. Comic books, autographed photos, statues, coins, etc. I love variety. As such I love getting new guns and looking at the differences between them. And if I'm getting a new gun, it might as well be in a new cartridge too (again, variety ).

Basically my hunting gun is whichever gun out of my collection currently has my eye. Right now, it's a Marlin XS7 in 7mm-08. Prior to that, my go-to rifle was a Savage 110 in .30-06. I'm sure in another year or two I'll be bored and switch again. In generally though: all of them work just fine for the purpose. It's just like having multiple cars and changing up which one you drive to work every now and then.

 

[Frostbite]

Ouch, I am missing a caliber in that precise range. It hurts. Does .30-30 Winchester count? It has low recoil, but not the same range as those mentioned. I see a specialist role for it: walk and shoot. I guess it should count, I see it between my .223 Rem and .270 Win.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

243, just because I saw other people shooting them and they always seemed to work. I hunt out west in that high desert where the mule deer tend to be on the bigger side, the country's open, and the shots can get pretty long. It looks a lot like this.



Pretty much everyone is carrying a 270 or 30-06 or something like that just because of the need for range, no one's out there with a 30-30. The 243 has the same reach as those bigger calibers and seems to take down deer fine with 100gr bullets. For what's normally touted as a "women and kids" cartridge, it's pretty impressive.

Have yet to take a deer with one (that area is dry and pretty sparsely covered with deer to start with, then you shove in a couple dozen yahoos on ATVs all beating over the same public land and the pickings get slim), but I've seen people in my hunting group take 2 deer with a 243 and they were bang-flops.

Is there a difference? I'm dealing with too small of a sample size to say, but I'm going to use it till it doesn't work.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

@Frostbite Yes, I think the .30-30 and the .35 Rem both count though they would make a sub-category.
@Mosin Bubba Thank you for helping make my point. I agree and I know those arroyos you photographed.

And FtR, my last deer was with a .270 at 50 yards. A few seconds later my buddy got his at about the same distance with the .243. I used my .270 not because I believed it ‘necessary, but because it was my dads gun and is now mine and shoots well enough and fit the purpose...

Greg

 

[adcoch1]

It's all about the bullet... In the 308 case family, if you use similar quality and style of bullets you get similar results. A quality heavy bullet in 243 hits with plenty of authority (a friend took a 900# griz with one) and with a light expanding bullet in the 7mm-08 it may be the perfect deer gun. All of the 25 cal and 6.5 cal stuff is great for deer too, but yeah, pretty similar terminal performance with the bullet being of equal capability. Ranges may vary though, so your hunting style and terrain may drive your choice...

 

[cougar1717]

There are many calibers that work great for deer. Obviously, shot placement matters a lot. Increasing caliber usually reaps a better blood trail with larger holes in and out, but doesn't make up for a sub optimal or out of the kill zone shot. A "dead deer" can run a long distance after the shot. If a person is in a place that is heavily hunted or where land is at a premium, a larger caliber (with a good shot) can keep the deer on your land or keep it from running far enough where a neighboring hunter could put another shot on it and claim.
This is also where the bullet performance makes a difference. There are so many variables - velocity, expansion, penetration, retained weight, meat damage, etc. Some ammo choices are better than others for deer and other CPX2 game.
In that regard, I would not necessarily say that all "short action" or "intermediate" (or however you want to classify these "bigger than a 223, but less than a 25-06 calibers") are the same for deer. There are definite differences.

 

[someguy2800]

Forget about the cartridge. Pick the bullet you want to shoot, decide the velocity you need to get the trajectory and range you want, and find the cartridge that holds enough powder to do it.

 

[stownsend]

I own both the 243 and the 7mm-08. I hunt mostly in South Dakota where shots of 200+ yards are common. My first deer was with my 243, and also my farthest shot at 275 yards. I would say that 300 yards is about the limit that I would be comfortable with the 243 and that would only be an ideal broadside shot. I wanted something that would give me more punch at distance and went with a 300 win mag for a few years. It was too much gun. I then went with the 7mm-08 and have found it to be the perfect deer gun for me. I am confident using it on deer at any range that I am comfortable shooting and don't have to worry about having the perfect broadside shot. It really is the sweet spot between the two for me. But today there are many calibers and cartridges that fall into that category and everyone has their preference. I don't see myself using anything but the 7mm anytime soon.

 

[MrBorland]

Why did you pick yours

I initially saw a really nice custom rifle at a reasonable price, and it happened to be chambered in 7mm-08.

Later, picked up a Tikka Compact Tactical Rifle (CTR) in .260 Remington to shoot in some mid-range tactical matches. I never ended up shooting these matches, but the rifle shoots lights-out, I love shooting it, and replacing the big scope with a 1-3x turned it into the near-ideal whitetail rifle/cartridge combo for my area. I still like the 7mm-08 very much, but because of the rifle, I switched to .260 Remington. For all intents and purposes, any differences in these two cartridges for my hunting use are nil.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I have two calibers for White Tail (6.5x55 Swede and 7x57 Mauser) and two that I like for Elk and Mulies, where shots may be a bit longer and the animals larger (7mm Rem Mag and either a .308 Win or .30-06). I have had good success with Nosler AccuBond, Barnes TSX and Federal Trophy Bonded Tip bullets. I also have used Sierra GameKings and Hornady SST bullets for White Tails with good success. I like 140gr 6.5 cal and 139gr/140gr bullets for White Tails and 162gr-180gr bullets for Muleys and Elk. I did once use my .375 H&H Mag with 260gr bullets on an Elk...think sledgehammer.

Now .243 Win/6mm Rem and 7mm-08 are well proven deer stoppers. I would be reluctant to use lighter bullets on Elk but a .270 Win shooting 140gr bullets at reasonable distances have worked well on Elk for many hunters. Regardless of caliber and bullet, shot placement is key. As the old chestnut goes, "Who was this W.D.M. 'Karamoja' Bell fellow and he did what with a .275 Rigby?" (PS-I bought a bag of Hornady .275 Rigby brass for my 7x57 Mauser just for the nostalgia value.

Cheers, and good hunting,

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

Forget about the cartridge. Pick the bullet you want to shoot, decide the velocity you need to get the trajectory and range you want, and find the cartridge that holds enough powder to do it.

This guy NAILED IT! Pick what bullet you want to use then choose accordingly.

I have a very strong preference for a 7mm08 and a 120 Nosler Ballistic Tip at 2800fps. It drops deer size game like Thors hammer and with light recoil and stellar accuracy. With a love affair for the 120 Noslers it made my choice easy. My wife has a preference for a 130 grain 6.5 bullet so the Creedmoor was her choice.

We have many different rifle styles and cartridges but when we get serious I grab my 7-08 she grabs her Creedmoor. But we do know variety is the spice of life so we've used a .243,7-08,6.5x55,.270,6.8SPC, 30-06, 30 Rem AR, 6.5 Grendel, 7mm Valkyrie and 7.62x39 all performed well and no lost deer. Can't kill them anymore dead than dead.

This long winded post to say have an honest chat with yourself about your wants/needs, choose your best option, then practice and become proficient with your chosen weapon. Then the rest will fall into place.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

For the record: I have what I need.

This is just to see how you guys came to decisions. I’m just hear so much about the Creedmore and started looking and noticing though some strengths can be had in one cartridge more than in another: but they seem to be different flavors of deer rifle.

Greg

 

[jmr40]

Almost every modern bottle necked cartridge firing smokeless powder 26 caliber and up will kill every animal in North America with careful bullet choices and shot placement. In fact every animal on the planet except for 4, elephant. hippo, cape buffalo and rhino. And the 6.5's have successfully been used on even the biggest 4. You can include 24 and 25 caliber if you leave out large bear and the other big 4. Which one you pick depends on how close you are willing to get and how much recoil you're willing to put up with. Of course availability is also a concern. And people make their choices for irrational reasons too. A 260 or 6.5 CM will kill the same class of game animals as a 338 WM, you just have to get closer. You don't really move up to another class of cartridges until you go to 375 and up.

I could do all of my hunting with a 223 for varmints up to deer and my 308 which is now my big gun used for deer and up.

If someone prefers 7-08 or really anything else short of 375 as their all around choice there is nothing wrong with that, they all do the same thing at the end of the day. Personally I don't NEED anything else. But do also own a 6.5 CM that I bought just to play around with. While it splits the difference perfectly between 22 and 30 caliber I'd use it on anything I'd hunt with the 308.

I’m just hear so much about the Creedmore and started looking and noticing though some strengths can be had in one cartridge more than in another: but they seem to be different flavors of deer rifle.

The CM is the most balanced round to come out in my lifetime. It doesn't kill any better than anything else, rather it takes advantage of good bullets to achieve high impact velocity down range with moderate muzzle velocity and recoil. Rather than the old school method we've used for years of just trying to shoot the same bullets faster at the muzzle. It gives you the most for the least.

Most hunters don't seem to grasp how important modern high BC bullets really are. They seem to think they are only for target shooters and only relevant at long range. If we compare a 300 WM with very low BC 180 gr bullets to 30-06 or 308 with 180 gr bullets with the best BC's the 30-06 will pass the 300 WM in velocity at only 75 yards and hit harder. With 1/3 less recoil. The same high BC bullets fired in a 308 will pass 300 WM at 175 yards. With 1/2 the recoil. It is impact velocity that matters, not muzzle velocity and high BC bullets mean hunting bullets impact at faster speeds even at moderate hunting ranges That isn't insignificant.

 

[Bfh_auto]

My brother loves his 6mm. So when I saw a 240Wby, I bought it.
It's the Hulk Hogan of factory .243s.
When I'm living in reality, I prefer the 260 because it does the same job with less meat damage.

 

[LoonWulf]

Deer, and we'll most things, arnt that difficult to kill. We've got very few redundancies, poke one hole in the right place and it's lethal.
DRT tho is another story.....

I've seen very little difference in lethality with anything from 6mm+ when launched around 2800-3kfps and enough bullet weight is used to exit.
I really don't like tracking animals, and that tends to push me towards heavy, soft, fast bullets. That also means Im generally a little heavy in cal/cartridge (.375 Ruger for axis deer?) for the game I'm hunting.
That doesn't mean I think a 7 or 30 magnum is necessary, and I've taken a fair number of deer with the .223, .243, and 6.5Grendel. I've taken a pile of goats, sheep, and pigs with those and a spread of other 6mms, .257s and 6.5s.

That said if I HAD to pick a single cartridge to shoot everything with (and I did at one point) it would be the 7mm Remington Magnum.
Why, because It can KILL anything Id ever wanna shoot, and running the loads I do, will almost always kill anything I'll ever likely shoot DRT with a decent hit.

As it stands I rarely use my 7, not for any dislikes but because I have absolute faith in it....makes it much easier to shoot all the other neat rounds I own.

 

[Davek1977]

I started using the 6.5 Creedmoor this season. I'm 41, and have hunted deer primarily with a 7mm Mag since my late teens. It never failed to do what I asked of it, and I'll never part with it, but just got to be a bit much....hauling it around all day got a bit old as it weighs a good bit with wood stock, scope, 26 in braked barrel, etc. I found the Creedmoor could take deer at any range I was comfortable taking them with the 7mm, and could do so in a much smaller, lighter rifle. I have a sample size of 1, but it rolled a 4x5 whitetail on the run at about 100 yards opening day, and the deer was dead from a neck shot before hitting the ground....i have a feeling this will become my "primary" for the foreseeable

 

[Walkalong]

The 6.5s have always done well. The 6.5 Swede has been a favorite over in Europe forever.

I work with a fellow who has deer hunted for decades and has shot deer with a lot of different calibers who got a 6.5 Creedmoor last year. He has been very impressed with it.