CQB, Ar's or M1Carbines?

[twoblink]

AR's or M1Carbines? What are my other (don't say Mini14!!) choices for a semi in a .223?

One of the factors I also consider is, SHTF, which rifle is easier to teach someone to use...

I'm leaning towards the M1Carbine personally, but I'm sure this will start a forest fire of a flame war..

Can someone name a war we've won with M16's??

 

[Nightcrawler]

Boy, you're just trawling for trouble this morning, eh? LOL

 

[Wildalaska]

M1 Carbine is a great little civilian SHTF rifle especially for the un gun friendly tyros..

My thoroughly un gun wife likes it.....

But in the hands of a trained killer like myself, its the m16!

WildooorahAlaska

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Did you say .223??

 

[dude]

We used M-16s to win the Gulf War and free the people of Afganistan from Taliban rule while breaking the back of Al Queda (sp?)

I'd choose (and I do) a .30 Carbine. If not that than a Mini-14 GB with some factory 20 round mags.

 

[3 gun]

I prefer the M1 carbine.

 

[twoblink]

The Bulpup is very tactical looking.. hehehe..

I have found that the M1Carbine works well for most women, better then AR's. I have found that the M1C is one of the fastest shouldering weapons...

 

[Will Fennell]

Both are neat rifles....

Twoblink,
Both are neat rifles for sure. I "grew up" with a M1 Carbine as our family house/truck rifle. It was my campanion when I was very young on alot of adventures in the woods and swamps of South Carolina growing up. Your right, the Carbine is easy to handle, and fast to the shoulder, but as soon as I could handle a larger rifle, I moved up.

The only problem with the Carbine is the cartridge. I know folks have lamented the fact for years, and alot of it is "legend" from wartime accounts, but in my case it is experience on shooting game. In a word, its performance ....well Oleg asked us to clean up our language....is VERY sub par. Even with soft points. Its not effective. Heck, its wasn't even very effective on feral dogs.

The best way to sum this up, after shooting 20 or so different animals, from 'coons to small wild pigs, when I leveled the Carbine on something to shoot, I always knew I needed to be prepared to shoot several more times.

Later, Dad picked up a Mini-14. While not exactly a cannon, it was decisively more effective than the .30 Carbine on game. With good bullets, it was even better. But even the plain ol' M193 ball, it did alot more damage than ANY .30 Carbine load I tried.

My Grandad was a retired surgeon, a hunter, and a reloader, so we were always doing post-mortems to compare damage and bullet performance. The .30 carb. was wayyy behind the .223....especially when the distance was over 50 yards.

I am with you on the Mini 14 I think I would look at the Armalite AR180b for a lower cost, easy to use, semi auto .223 launcher.

 

[Tamara]

twoblink,

Can someone name a war we've won with M16's??

Can you name a 20th Century war won with rifles?

Anyhow, you get a lot of CQB out Taipei way?

 

[BerettaNut92]

Anyhow, you get a lot of CQB out Taipei way?

He's under surveillance by the BGs and only has a tactical baseball bat to defend himself

 

[Nero Steptoe]

twoblink: What kind of weapon(s) did you use the last time you were involved in CQC? Were you dissatisfied with the results?? Apparently, whatever you normally used kept you alive or you wouldn't be posting this thread.

 

[twoblink]

Tamara,

Skunk has it pretty summed up; Being fishbowled by the perp, and all I've got is a T-ball bat and my cleaver...

Looking to pick up a Sjambok and a set of throwing knives.. CQB? I anticipate it!! The thief is going to pay.. To quote the movie Ocean's Eleven, "First he'll kill ya, then he'll go to work on ya.."

Nero Steptoe, Last time I had CQB? Actually, I racked a shotgun (drunk guys from upstairs came down after I had an exchange of words) The most recognized sound in the world... and for some reason, the sound of a shotgun makes people run... of course they called the cops on me... but last time I checked, it was legal to rack MY shotgun in MY house...

And the time before that? A Step-wrap armbar into a front hip throw, and then a japanese armbar.. the guy walked away with a bloody nose and a wounded pride..

I'm preparing for CQB though; I know there are TWO thieves... As blades of any length are legal to carry here in Taiwan, going shopping after I get some new years money this week

 

[BigG]

M16 by a Large Margin

I think Somalia was a decisive victory for the AR15/M16. 1,000 skinnies DOA, v. 19 Americans. You be the judge.

 

[Tamara]

I see.

Two thieves.

Assuming you were back in the US of A, I'd vote that the best tool for that kind of CQB would be a full-auto M4 with a Beta-C mag, a laser, a phaser, and a windspeed indicator, in two-tone, with some carbon fiber, as it is obviously too tactical a situation for a 4" K-frame, a 1911, or a Remington 870.

Ain't you and Skunk getting a bit carried away with the TacticalSHTFTEOTWAWKI stuff?



(Anyhow, the wood stock on an M1 Carbine would clash horribly with your knee-pads, camelbak, Pro-Tec helmet, Bolle goggles and all the other accoutrements necessary to don before you check and see if that's the neighbor's cat in your garage... )

 

[BerettaNut92]

Assuming you were back in the US of A, I'd vote that the best tool for that kind of CQB would be a full-auto M4 with a Beta-C mag, a laser, a phaser, and a windspeed indicator, in two-tone, with some carbon fiber, as it is obviously too tactical a situation for a 4" K-frame, a 1911, or a Remington 870.

Tamara, they have carbon fiber two-tone ARs?!?!? Send me a link!!

Ain't you and Skunk getting a bit carried away with the TacticalSHTFTEOTWAWKI stuff?

No, Twoblink is, he just likes talking about me

(Anyhow, the wood stock on an M1 Carbine would clash horribly with your knee-pads, camelbak, Pro-Tec helmet, Bolle goggles and all the other accoutrements necessary to don before you check and see if that's the neighbor's cat in your garage... )

Bolle goggles...Tamara Tamara tsk tsk, only Oakley has faux carbon fiber goggles!

 

[s&w 24]

If you can't make up your mind get a M-1 carbine and load it with 22 sabot ammo then you have a nice light wieght rifle and skinny little .223 bullets.

 

[Marshall]

M1 Carbine has my vote.

 

[Onslaught]

Anyhow, the wood stock on an M1 Carbine would clash horribly with your knee-pads, camelbak, Pro-Tec helmet, Bolle goggles and all the other accoutrements necessary to don before you check and see if that's the neighbor's cat in your garage...

Thank God (and Mall Ninjas) for Choate

If Tactical black don't suit ya, they've got Tactical as heck Camo too!

 

[DaveH]

Can someone name a war we've won with M16's??

Can anyone name a war were the M1 Carbine even came close?

 

[Handy]

My Dad said Sgt. York won WWI with a 1911.

 

[dude]

If I remember correctly, the M1 Carbine sucessfully killed a few Germans, Japanese, Chi Coms and North Koreans.

................and seemd to defend my Father's life well enough during WWII

 

[Destructo6]

I don't think there's much of a decision to make: I'd select the AR.

I'd prefer a M1 Carbine over a pistol, but that's about it.

 

[CAP]

I've got both, so I'm covered either way.

Close in though I'd probably grab the .30 carbine. There is a full 30-rounder waiting beside it.

 

[dude]

it was made to replace a pistol in the first place......and I'd rather have it than ANY pistol if there was a problem!

 

[CWL]

We've won every major infantry battle since introduction of M16 in Vietnam.

Who wins wars nowadays is determined politically. Military victories clouded by political/moral/ethical issues include: Vietnam, Iraq '91, Somalia.

Preferred CQB weapon nowadays is M16/M4/AR15s -some holdouts with 9mm/10mm H&Ks.

Who issues an M1 Carbine for CQB? It won't penetrate bodyarmor. .223 beats the .30 M1 ball in lethality. At least a .223 round probably will yaw & shatter. Don't count on any amazing ballistics with M1 ball.