Crazy nuts with guns or just imbeciles?

[medievalmax]

Hello to all,

This is my first post. If I got your attention then I am glad. I am having a really hard time working myself into sport shooting.
First off, I served with the 2nd Marine Division. Loved it/hated it and I am still very proud that I am a Marine first and an American second. Don't get me wrong on the whole issue of patriotism but putting your life in harms way requires a different mind set than many people ever realize. At times, the Marine Corps seems more permanent than the political ideologies that infect the nation. Balancing the whole equation nauseates me. America is the best country in the world but the people who can, abuse it like it is a whore. Politics make being a soldier (warrior) difficult. Being dedicated to the Marine Corps first helps us to focus more on mission accomplishment. If it is to the Corps than it is worth dying for.

To the task at hand: I have considered, pondered, invested, meditated, and hovered around the idea of IPSC or IDPA. At present, I am not a member of a range nor do I own a handgun. I sold everything that I had except the 12 gauge that stays at home.
I consider myself an expert shot with a rifle and a pistol. I enjoy it. Sometimes there is nothing that I would rather be doing than pulling a trigger. I suppose that this may sound a little odd. I believe that it is what shooting is all about: Pull the trigger, do it well, improve your shot.

IPSC looks incredible. I have never seen anyone do the things that some of these guys do. I am crazy about the idea of it.
But, all of the experinces that I have had trying to get started have been awful. Everytime I went to the range, I seemed surrounded by imbeciles always running their mouths. Guns stores in east Texas as well seem to attract the same element. Unsat. men (overweight and often sporting a mountain man look) who continually ran their mouths about how well they could kill another man if the opportunity (NOT NEED OR CIRCUMSTANCE) arose. I can't count the number of times I have heard about how big a whole a 45 will blow through a torso or how buckshot could cut a person in half. All of this said with extreme prejudice and excitement.
Half the time, I have flashbacks of the nerdy kid sitting in the back of the classroom getting his tail beat daily for just being goofy. Since when did these people grow up to look like excons waiting for the chance to shoot someone dead?

In my experience, gunstore owners and staff are no better in this area of Texas. First of all they are greedy and second seem to know everything about about everything. Just recently I called to special order a Beretta from a gunstore in Longview, Tx. A man named "Bob," told me that all Berettas were made in Italy. I think that a person would have to be an imbecile to not realize that Made in USA meant nothing other and Made in ITALY, likewise. All of the memories were awakened though. I think this is so like the beligerent imbeciles that I have met on the range.

I want to compete, I want to shoot, but I want to do it in the company of real men. Men that don't feel threatened by other men or their own shadow and enjoy shooting because it is all about the target, not about the potential lethality. Bring in the constant barrage of idiocity concerning hurting other people and you turn it into nothing more than illicit drug-like use.

I met Karl Rhen once. I can't tell you how impressed I still am. The man is educated, well trained, kind, and considerate. He exemplifies what a sport shooter should be. And..it's all about fun.

Shouldn't shooting be about enjoyment and not vices?

 

[Snappy_13]

I hate people like that. I agree about Karl Rhen, he knows his stuff. Thanks for your service.

 

[kludge]

Welcome to The High Road!

I am a Marine first and an American second.

You took an oath to defend the Constitution. I hope you reconsider your feelings. It is in fact your feeling about America that led you to the Marines, is it not?

On the subject of competition... forget the "gun store talk" that you hear and visit some local matches or a local club. I hear none of this kind of talk from people who are committed to the sport.

 

[pax]

Welcome to THR, and thanks for your service.

I would suggest that you find yourself a good firearms training school in your area, if at all possible, for the fellowship if nothing else. People who have had some level of professional training are far less likely to blather this kind of nonsense, and tend to be less tolerant of yammerheads who do.

Once you get into IPSC or IDPA, you will meet far more sane, like-minded people than you will idiots. The amazing thing is that most of the "blow 'em all away" guys don't actually do a whole lot of shooting, especially not in venues where someone is keeping score.

pax

 

[Correia]

The crappy element you describe is why I started my own gunstore.

Hopefully some other THR members in your area will chime in with some good places for you to go.

 

[ezypikns]

Don't worry about others.

You're right. The shooting sports do draw a fair number of guys who think using a gun makes them a superman. You'll also meet some folks like yourself, serious, quiet people who want to learn and compete, with a minimum of fuss.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

I had almost the exact same experience that you had back in the early 80's when I first got into shooting. I only dabbled for years, then other things got in the way for many years. Then I found a great shooting range, great people, I shoot IDPA with a great group of people, and all if fine.
Ignore the idiots, look around, you can find many intelligent, good folks in the shooting sport. The people I find in shooting are more individualistic, and self-reliant that most.

 

[Justin]

The funny thing about attending competitive shooting events is that they have a tendency to seperate the wheat from the chaff in a way that is plainly visible to anyone.

My general experiences in the competitive shooting environment have all been uniformly positive, regardless of the sport. (Yes, including the Trap & Skeet crowd. )

 

[Walkalong]

Thank you for your service to our country and thus to all of us here at home enjoying all our freedoms in safety.

There is a bastard in every crowd. No getting away from them. The gun culture draws some of the ilk you speak of. Many of us enjoy shooting and competeing in one venue or another. We love the competition and the comradary. We strive to become better shooters for personal pride and accomplishment. We are not training to kill. We hope it never comes to that, but are prepared if it is a must.

The funny thing about attending competitive shooting events is that they have a tendency to seperate the wheat from the chaff in a way that is plainly visible to anyone.

Very true.

 

[Chuhhuniban]

Welcome to THR. I have been a member for a relatively short time, but have found the members here are not the folks you see proving their masculinity by posturing with guns. Most of the folks here are like the First Sergeant in your Marine unit — they've been there, done that, three or four times and got over the adolescent rush of being "seen of men" by having a gun — they've got nothing left to prove.

I don't compete, but I go to the range frequently and I would echo the observation above, if you join a club, you'll meet the folks you are looking for, not the guy (I swear) in the elastic waist-band, polyester, forest-pattern camo BDU pants who knows everything (just ask him) — Colt's out of business, Smith & Wessons are secretly made in the Ukraine, Glocks kaboom after 3,275 rounds (exactly), Sigs are a Swiss plot, etc., etc.

This is a great sport, welcome back (and thanks for your service).

GDC

 

[Fly320s]

medievalmax,

Welcome to THR.

If you haven't been there, go look at the USPSA website, www.uspsa.org. USPSA is the U.S. version of IPSC. At that site you can find all the info you need about USPSA/IPSC and find a club near you.

Most folks, like myself, call it IPSC (ip-sick) whether it is really an IPSC match or USPSA match. For the most part, the rules are the same. Certainly, the idea of the game is the same.

As others have said, once you move away from the range-rangers toward the dedicated shooters you will find a more "realistic" attitude. Just like when you were in the Marines. The longer a person is a Marine the less likely he is to spout off some nonsense about a .50BMG round knocking the enemy's head off just by passing by within a foot. And the Marines who have the more high-speed jobs, special forces, etc, are the ones who are probably the most sane, down-to-earth people in the Corps. The experience seperates the wheat from the chaff.

Don't give up just because some posers turn your stomach. Go to a match. Find out what the real shooters are like.

 

[Sistema1927]

I "think" that I know what you mean by "Marine first, American second", but let me challenge you to be the best American you can be based upon your honorable service in the Corps. That way "American" will have more meaning.

If you want to do something outrageously different, try out Cowboy Action Shooting. I have so much fun that I don't really care what the neighbors think anymore when I am dressed up in persona and on the way to a shoot.

 

[AndyC]

Welcome to THR

 

[callgood]

I was checking some rifle loads this past Sunday and after loading up the car walked over to the local IDPA match. I had been meaning to for some time- wanted to get the flavor of it. Low key doesn't describe it. A lot of good natured chat, the older guys walk the course, looked like everyone was enjoying themselves. May give it a try.

(Gun store threads are some of my favorites!)

 

[bumm]

I think in any hobby or discipline you will find some obnoxious blowhards floating on the surface like scum. As you get into it a little deeper you find a lot of nice people. It's that way with guns, it's that way with horses. I'd expect it's that way with motorcycles, mountain climbing, sailing, and just about anything else. My wife is into sewing, and she's joined a few groups on the internet. Early on, she found out just who was an obnoxious know-it-all, and who really knew their stuff. Shoot the way you want to, and be one of the good guys.
Marty

 

[medievalmax]

Thanks for the thoughts

Wow,

I think my mind is already changed. I watched a video of Todd Jarrett shooting a match: Incredible. If that is not athleticism and talent than I have no clue as to what is. Of course, I am not making light of anyone else who is competing. As well, my daughter sat with me and watched Julie Goloski. Now I have a six year old that is interested. Sure I'll teach her to shoot!
If anyone is here in the East Texas area: I met the "Noonday Gun trader's" at their store here near Tyler. These guys are completely fantastic. I spent an hour doing a little touchy-feely getting a little warm-n-fuzzy with 1911s by Colt, Springfield, and Para.
The Para is in my price range at current. I don't know what it would do for me as far as getting started is concerned.
As many of you have voiced, I am in it for fun. Seems like it is just like learning to play the guitar. If you started with the sexiest Gibson in the store costing more than $2000 the odds are against you.
So, I will sleep on the sub $700 Para and consider the cost of reloading with equipment, supplies, etc. 45 ACP is pricey for me if I'm buying it off of the shelf.
Cowboy shooting looks awesome. I love the fact that it attracts Nostalgic minded older gentlemen. The ideal associated with the moral code of America's Cowboy exemplifies the originality of our nation and some of the great aspects of our diverse culture.
Concerning the comments on the Marine Corps: Let me say that it means a lot to me to hear other men support my service. As well, it is good to hear others understand that what is said by some soldiers or supposed soldiers is total crap.
As a college student I meet "SEALs, Rangers, Delta, Green Berets, and Air Force Special Operations men." Now you do realize that I am quoting them. Of course I don't believe a word of it. Still, these guys are everywhere. I want to say, " Hey guys, are you saying that John Doe who just died in Fallujah a week before his twentieth birthday wasn't good enough just serving as a regular grunt?" I feel this is what is implied. Service is service. I respect the tank gunner in the Army as much as I do the Airborne Ranger. I worry that some of the boys don't have enough training but I don't feel that it is right to invalidate their commitment because they didn't get a "high-speed, low-drag" occupational field. Damn that gets me. Yep, the more you care for what you do the less you pat yourself on the back for doing it.

I "swore to uphold the Constitution" ? With all due respect, I don't know what that means. The men who wrote our constitution set the standard for the next thousand years. I am faithful to their ideals and did swear to defend it but being a Marine first and American second doesn't displace this.
You have to understand that once you become a grunt, your constitutional rights don't exist. Once you take the oath, you are a Marine first and an American second. Mission accomplishment is your first priority.
I suppose that I wasn't clear on this though.

Thanks again for all of the support and the understanding.

 

[XD Fan]

Good comments, Max.

Thanks for your service to our country.

Also thanks for getting your daughter interested early. We've really got to get our young ones started in this arena before the mainstream media can get to them.

 

[SoCalShooter]

Welcome, thank you for your service and I suggest trying BULLSEYE shooting also.

Unfortunetly there is a large amount of imbeciles and they have very big mouths. Every range has'em, they are inescapeable. I suggest trying BULLSEYE because I had the same experience at an IPSC match, idiots who think they know how to shoot fast blowing off a bunch of rounds. The BULLSEYE guys in my opinion were more proffessional about it.

 

[thales]

*


I have done a little bit of competing in Service Rifle. I found that the competitors in that game and in High Power Rifle were about as nice as could be. I suspect the same thing is true of the people in Rimfire and in Bullseye Pistol Competition. Not very many blowhards at all.


*

 

[MechAg94]

I am member of a private range now. Everyone I have met is pretty nice and will talk as much as as little as you want. When I shoot a Garand or a 1903A3, I have allow time for people come up and chat. My Dad came down to shoot his new Garand and we ended up talking to people half the time. Good people though.

My range does lots of competitions, but I haven't tried them yet. Something to start up this year.

 

[shaggycat]

Thanks for your service. I wish that your impression of gun-owning civilians hadn't been tainted by a few bad apples. They are just that, however.

 

[telomerase]

I am a Marine first and an American second.

That's exactly how the Praetorians put it! Welcome to THR.

 

[Mandirigma]

I want to compete, I want to shoot, but I want to do it in the company of real men. Men that don't feel threatened by other men or their own shadow and enjoy shooting because it is all about the target, not about the potential lethality.

So compete. Get out and shoot. You know the old saying "you don't have to like it, you just have to do it." Take it to mean: You don't have to like the people you are competing against, you just have to go shoot. (Granted, in this you want to like it.) But as mentioned earlier, competition will seperate the Wheat from the Chaff. The gunshop commandos/mall ninjas will tend to fall to the wayside.


Me I take a little different tack. I do the smile and nod. Its thier story so I let them tell it. But I know its a story, anyone who has had experience will know its a story. I know I can't trust this person, and honestly, thats all I need to know.

Met a kid today who had a bunch of fallacies in his stories. Apparently he was an FC3 in the Navy and went on "Black Ops with SEALs". This was only because he had did "SEAL" training and got "Sniper School" while he was still in basic. Then went to BUD/S only 5 of his class graduated, because It was more based on the Mental aspect and individual effort than physical and team based. He had other people standing around in wonderment, but I just went on my way.

Who knows doesn't talk. Who talks doesn't know. -Lao Tzu

 

[mister2]

medievalmax, WELCOME!

You play guitar...GREAT! We won't get into the Fender v. Gibson discussion, but just like you have run into the biggest mouths who claim they play the toughest riffs, you've run into the same loudmouths in the firearms arena. And just like you've not gotten discouraged and turned off towards playing music, it seems you've already transcended the layer of fluff to get to the core of the sport, the dedicated, hard-working, real people who embody everything good about any hobby.

Thanks for your service. Have fun with the Para. Was that single or double stack?

 

[tbtrout]

Welcome Max, Semper Fi. Very well written and you are right there are a lot of people in the shooting hobby that do not reflect it in good light. Unfortunately we are stuck with them and they are stuck with us, as they think they are correct and if you do not agree with them you are misguided. You have had some of the best firearms training availible as a standard issue Jarhead. Even better if you did some schools or B billets. So take your training, go compete and meet pople of like minded interests and values. As for this forum, just like in the gunshop you will find plenty of opinions, present company included, but so far I would have to say 90% of what I have read on this forum are knowing and sincere responses with the desire to help and promote a safe hobby for anyone who is interested.

By the way you can not go wrong with a quality 1911