Critique My M16A4gery Build

[Dionysusigma]

Hokay, so as the title says, I'm not looking to build a super-duper-3gun-Nat'l Match-coyote-2.5" tactical entry-zombie defense gun, I'm building the closest thing I can get (in a couple of ways, better) to the M16A4, in the current "Uncle Salty's Misguided Children" (USMC ) style.

This is what I have, so far:
- Yankee Hill Machine lower receiver
- LMT A2 stock assembly
- LMT lower parts kit
- Basic A2 grip with Gapper and standard trigger guard
- Geissele SSA trigger
- Blackhawk Universal 3-pt sling
- BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle (medium)
- BCM M16 gov't-profile 20" upper receiver group
- BCM HPT/MPI bolt and auto carrier
- Standard rifle handguards (to be replaced)
- YHM Flip rear sight

To be added:
- Knights Armament M5 RAS (with rail covers)
- Knights Armament vertical grip
- Trijicon TA31RCO-A4 ACOG

... and am currently running Federal XM193 through MagPul PMAGs.

So, with all the AR talk going on lately, how am I doing? And yes, when it's completed, I'll post pictures a-plenty.

 

[sonrider657]

Why a government profile barrel? In my opinion the profile is completely backwards.

 

[Dionysusigma]

Why a government profile barrel? In my opinion the profile is completely backwards.

I'm building the closest thing I can get to the M16A4, in the current "Uncle Salty's Misguided Children" style.

The M5 RAS won't fit on an HBAR, either.

 

[Zerodefect]

Sounds awesome. Tag for pics.

I can't do anything with a vert grip. And throwing a 3 point sling at me will look like the giant squid scene from "2000 Leagues under the Sea".

 

[kwelz]

Remember you asked for it. ;-)

See opinions in red.

- Yankee Hill Machine lower receiver
- LMT A2 stock assembly
- LMT lower parts kit Great Choice
- Basic A2 grip with Gapper and standard trigger guard I really suggest upgrading to a Tango Down or Magpul MOE depending on your shooting style and hand size
- Geissele SSA trigger These are great.
- Blackhawk Universal 3-pt sling I would take this off and throw it in the trash. Get a Vickers tactical 2 point sling. 3 Point slings are an older style that have been replaced by more efficient 2 point and single point slings.
- BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle (medium)Every gun should have these standard
- BCM M16 gov't-profile 20" upper receiver group Not a big fan of 20 inch guns but BCM is the way to go
- BCM HPT/MPI bolt and auto carrier can't go wrong here either
- Standard rifle handguards (to be replaced)
- YHM Flip rear sight If I may suggest switch to a Troy Flip up For both the front and the rear.

To be added:
- Knights Armament M5 RAS (with rail covers) Meh, they arn't bad but take a look at the Troy TRX extreme series. Lighter and more efficient for most guns.
- Knights Armament vertical grip
- Trijicon TA31RCO-A4 ACOG Consider your optics carefully. I would recommend looking at the Trijicon TR25 series 1-4 optics. If gives you both CQB and Mid range abilities where the ACOG is only good at mid range

... and am currently running Federal XM193 through MagPul PMAGs.

So, with all the AR talk going on lately, how am I doing? And yes, when it's completed, I'll post pictures a-plenty.

 

[Dionysusigma]

So, in other words Azizza, the base gun is good to go?

I went with the YHM because I got it for a GREAT price, and the logo matches the lower. The A2 grip is "correct," and while I like the MagPul MOE (my other AR wears it), the A2 isn't all that bad. Having used an AccuPoint before (though on a friend's rifle), I'm not that big a fan of them--can't exactly say why; but, The TA31RCO-A4 is also "correct," and even though it's calibrated for 65gr M855 through a 20" barrel, the slightly lower bullet weight for XM193 won't be affected too much.

Edited to add: Also am planning on adding a light, probably this, and a QD mount for the ACOG.

 

[TonyAngel]

Since AR builds are really a matter of taste and preference, assuming that quality parts are used, I'd say that it sounds good.

Just a couple of things though. That suggestion on the ACOG is right. ACOGs seem to be task driven and finding one that will fit all of your needs requires a bit of research and checking around. You can't just go by what the reticle looks like in a picture and you can't just go by the specs published on their website. I say this because Trijicon publishes specs based on design specs, not what they actually turn out to be in real use. What I'm referring to more specifically is the amount of eye relief.

Some ACOGs have a really short eye relief and are really sensitive to cheek weld. Some have a more forgiving eye relief and are less sensitive to cheek weld or eye alignment. There are so many ACOGs that it's hard to keep up with them, but I know that the TA33 3X is very forgiving in terms of eye relief and cheek weld. The 3X also makes the transition from up close to medium ranges better than the 4X. I don't know why, but shooting the 4X models (that I have shot) up close was a bit difficult. The 3X was no problem keeping both eye open. As for the higer magnification models, I really can't remember is it's the TA11 or the TA31 that is better in the eye relief department. If you can, I'd check them out before plopping down the cash. I remember when the TA01NSN was first released. Guys flocked to buy them, without having seen or checked them out. A few months later, the used market was flooded with them.

Also pay attention to what the reticle is calibrated for. I THINK that scope you are looking at is calibrated for M855, rather than M193.

How long ago did you get that SSA? I'm only asking because Geissele very recently released the SSA-E (enhanced). I just got mine in and it's really nice. Marginally lighter than the SSA, but a much cleaner break WITHOUT the use of light springs. If interested, you may be able to return that SSA for a trade in on an SSA-E.

Edit: Oops. The last post got in ahead of me.

 

[Dionysusigma]

Not to worry on the optics--I've played around with a model that's quite similar, the TA31RCO-M4, and the eye relief and all else I could think to mess with was just fine. Since (for once) I'm going to have veritable acres of rail space, I was also thinking of adding a decent laser, maybe even green, for "across-the-room" use.

 

[C-grunt]

Sounds good. Ive been eyeing a A4 rifle build myself. My unit in the Army used them and I really like them.

 

[KW]

I have no problem using my TA31 at close range - as long as the eye relief works for you with an A2 stock you should be fine.

 

[Dionysusigma]

The stock fit is actually pretty good. In all reality, an A2 stock fits my long arms and large stature like A1 stocks fit most "normal" people. It's about an inch too short...

 

[HorseSoldier]

Blackhawk Universal 3-pt sling

As has already been said, 3 Point slings are junk.

But, if you're trying to simulate a US Army M16, they are the sort of thing non-shooting fobbits tend to tool around with inside the wire.

I have no problem using my TA31 at close range - as long as the eye relief works for you with an A2 stock you should be fine.

+1. I ran a TA31 on my issue M4A1 and did not have any problem using it in close.

 

[amflyer]

You should have just got a stock Bushmaster or DPMS instead of all that other stuff.

.

 

[Dionysusigma]

 

[ny32182]

If the goal is a clone build, then go all out. As far as I know, the following items are not mil-spec:

-SSA trigger. Of course you can't really get the milspec trigger without paying a LOT more money, but the regular cheap LPK is closer in terms of semi trigger pull, I believe. LMT should be just fine.

-Sling.... I don't really know what the mil uses; did you check on this?

-Charging handle: Stock milspec one is much more correct here; I believe the BCM "gunfighter" has a different latch design and they have logos all over it. BCM, and LMT, and others will sell you a milspec version.

-BCM 20" standard govt profile upper group: perfect to the best of my knowledge except for the logo on the upper, and the M4 feed ramps. Refinish or get them to sell you one without the logo and it is right there. My own M16A4gery has a CMMG govt spec upper with the same spec sheet and no logo. It also has the M4 feed ramps though.

-Bolt carrier; I've found that if you order just a carrier from BCM it will come logo-free; if you order a complete BCG, it will come logo-ed up. On a clone build you want to avoid the logo. Or at least I did. There is an LMT BCG in mine.

YHM flip up rear: I don't think this is milspec. I believe there is a KAC flip sight you can get and be clone correct; there is no flip sight on mine.

Overall it sounds like it is coming along nicely and is pretty close. You cite the right rails, grips, and optic. Use the included stock Trijicon TA51 mount.

Researching a clone build is actually almost as much fun as building it, isn't it?

Edit: Ammo and mags; you want USGI mag and M855 "green tip" 62gr ammo, which is what is run today in the current 1:7 rifles

 

[hatchetbearer]

Sounds pretty accurate to what I carry around. For those people complaining about the 3 point sling, It's what we are issued, or as close to it as I want to get. Me personally, I hate it as the buckle to tighten it around your body constantly slips and it lets the rifle slide away from my shoulder pocket. I never had any problems with the RCO in CQB training (yes, I'm a pog) I just went with "eye muzzle target".

 

[Dionysusigma]

ny32182, you make a lot of good points, and yes, the BCM logo-ification is a little annoying.

However, a lot of the changes I've made are because this is to be my one rifle, and as such, though it is more-or-less a clone, I want a few things more that make it a bit more user-friendly or are better than spec such as the Mod.4 Gunfighter handle and the PMAGs. From a lot of stories from soldiers, the two biggest problems they had were with charging handles and magazines--I figured I'd improve mine a bit since I don't have supply sergeants or unit leaders to worry about ticking off. Also why I added the YHM flip-up rear sight--it makes no sense to me to have a front iron sight and optic, but no rear back-up.

It's a fine balance between 1) what is Correct and 2) what is Useful.

And as much as I want Green Tip, I can't find it anywhere.

 

[taliv]

i think you've made some solid choices there. i agree with most of azziza's comments, but i have no experience with the troy rails. i probably wouldn't get the KAC RAS, but the KAC URXII is the best money can buy. DD and larue are also solid choices.

i do like ACOGs a lot. I have been using the TA31F-RCO model myself for many years. read Zak's article on optics before you buy an acog though. understand the eye relief and exit pupil, etc. it's in the Library sticky.

 

[Dionysusigma]

Well, thanks to a deal cut to me by a friend with a chronic addiction to ARs (meaning he has no less than 14 of them) I bought a KAC M5 RAS, three KAC panels, a rubber-ish ladder cover, and KAC vertical grip from him for $100. Yes, I've verified they're real (he still had the receipt from a couple years ago), and by golly are they solid. All I'm missing from my list is the ACOG.

A couple of questions, though.

1) I've already got a decent flip-up rear backup iron sight, but should I go ahead and get a detachable carry handle as well? If yes, is UTG good enough, or should I drop the extra dough on an LMT or similar? To complete the "package," it makes sense, but from a utility standpoint, it's questionable.

2) I've been looking at magazines, also. Though USGI magazines are "correct," and windowed PMAGs are comparatively inexpensive, work reliably, and are what I already have, two other types have come to my attention: Lancer L5s and H&Ks. Lancers appear to have a strong following from those who use them, as do H&Ks. Opinions on this? Should I stick with what I have?

 

[ny32182]

On the rails, it sounds like you got the set for a great price, so that is good, however... I can tell you this because I have three sets of them:

1) M5 RAS, paid full price; for a clone build
2) M4 RAS, paid full price; for a clone build
3) Another M4 RAS, free from a friend who works in Iraq and went to a different rail.

They may feel solid, but once you compare them to a free float set of any type, you will see how un-solid they really are. (You wouldn't want to mount an optic on them). They do the job they were intended to do, but have been around a while, and in the current marketplace they are well over-priced for their capabilities if you were paying full price. The only reason I would buy them is specifically for a clone build, or if you got a great deal (which you did)

I did what you are talking about for a while, started with a clone rifle and did some "tweaks" to make it a little more user friendly or functional. However I eventually got tired of showing it to people, and having to say, "it is a clone, well, except for this part, that part, this part..." I eventually segregated them and did builds that were either as close to "clone" as I could get them, or built totally to my own tastes. The only non-"correct" part I have (and have control over) on the clones now is an ambi selector; it just makes such a huge difference in handling for me as a lefty that I just can't give it up. Plus it is part of the trigger group which can't be totally correct anyway.

I'm sure either way, you will have a fine, fun rifle!

Regarding the ammo, AIM has some that is supposed to be M855 spec for a good price right now. I don't think it is actually surplus from a mil contractor though, so hard to say whether it is really, truly M855 or not.

 

[dgjester]

) I've been looking at magazines, also. Though USGI magazines are "correct," and windowed PMAGs are comparatively inexpensive, work reliably, and are what I already have, two other types have come to my attention: Lancer L5s and H&Ks. Lancers appear to have a strong following from those who use them, as do H&Ks. Opinions on this? Should I stick with what I have?

can't say anything about the lancer mags. as to the hk's, don't bother. i had three of them while in the marines and 2 of them were crap. had constant jams out of them, and they're heavy as hell.

as far as backup sights go:
http://longrangesupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=138_158_157&products_id=659

this is what i carried on my a4 thru 2 deployments in iraq. they work fairly well and fit perfectly under an rco.

slingwise, most use threepoint slings because they're issued. i had a rigmounted onepoint i used outside the wire and a juryrigged twopoint on the fob. as always, yymv.

 

[MrCleanOK]

-BCM 20" standard govt profile upper group: perfect to the best of my knowledge except for the logo on the upper, and the M4 feed ramps.

All of the Army M16A4's I've handled have had M4 feedramps.

 

[ny32182]

Hmm, really... that would differ from what I understood to be the case when I built mine (mine has them too, but I thought they were incorrect)

 

[strambo]

but should I go ahead and get a detachable carry handle as well?

Waste of $$ IMO. Heck, even in theater if a soldier doesn't have an optic you are far more likely to see them with the Matech BUIS than a carry handle. We didn't even bring the handles on our last 2 deployments.

 

[Dionysusigma]

Well, an update, and a pic as promised.



What it is so far:
- YHM stripped lower receiver
- LMT A2 stock assembly
- LMT LPK, no FCG, no trigger guard, no grip (A2 grip and trigger guard from earlier build)
- Geissele AR15 Super Semi-Automatic trigger
- Ergo Gapper
- Blackhawk Universal Swift Sling 3-pt
- BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle (medium)
- BCM M16 Government-profile 20" Upper Receiver Group
- YHM Flip rear sight
- KAC M5 RAS with 3 grip panels and vertical grip
- Ladder-style rail protector for top rail

Only one main piece left... the ACOG. And that's going to be ordered as soon as possible - this weekend with luck, another two weeks if unlucky. Was also going to be adding a light (not like rail space is at a premium, here) and still considering the Larue QD mount for the ACOG.