crown damage by cleaning rod? Myth?

[Rodd]

Oh yeah, almost forgot...

Everytime you fire your rifle you cause bore wear. Every time. Cleaning the bore between firings slows this process dramatically, but if you want to wear out a centerfire rifle barrel quickly, just keep shooting it without cleaning. The guilding metal coating on typical bullets (soft like brass or aluminum) in combination with carbon particles--plus heat as one poster here has pointed out--cause bore wear, just like any other abrasive backed by metal run back and forth through the bore. Of course there's no human hand shoving that bullet back and forth after the round is touched off so the wear is generally consistent the length of the bore--but it is wear, nonetheless.

 

[cracked butt]

Everytime you fire your rifle you cause bore wear. Every time. Cleaning the bore between firings slows this process dramatically, but if you want to wear out a centerfire rifle barrel quickly, just keep shooting it without cleaning. The guilding metal coating on typical bullets (soft like brass or aluminum) in combination with carbon particles--plus heat as one poster here has pointed out--cause bore wear, just like any other abrasive backed by metal run back and forth through the bore. Of course there's no human hand shoving that bullet back and forth after the round is touched off so the wear is generally consistent the length of the bore--but it is wear, nonetheless.

Brrrrt, wrong.

Almost all of the wear from shooting a centerfire is at the throat of the rifle from gas/flame cutting. You can have a completely shot out barrel where the entire barrel looks good with the exception of the throat. Damage to the muzzle/ rifling is exclusively caused by poor cleaning technique using cheapo cleaning tools.

 

[Horsemany]

Right on Cracked Butt.

 

[Rodd]

As far as I can tell, throat erosion, flame cutting, pitting from carbon are wear. Yes, throats frequently wear out first, especially on high velocity calibers, but they wouldn't if you never fired the piece. The issue was "damage to crowns," which, so far, no one has addressed. We HAVE talked about bore damage at the muzzle end of the barrel due to improper use of cleaning rods. Things happen inside the bore at either end, almost always caused by the shooter. Can a cleaning rod of any material damage some portion of the bore if used improperly? Absolutely. Does a projectile traveling at high velocity through the bore cause wear? Absolutely. Will it wear a bore to the point it is no longer accurate? Depends on what the word "accuracy" means to you, but yeah, you can wear a bore on a firearm, a main tank gun, and artillery piece, or a ship's gun, by shooting it.

 

[jrfoxx]

Before reading on, lets assume that I'm referring only to proper cleaning from the breach, or using a bore guide when thats not possible (both of which I do), as we can all agree its very bad to do otherwise, and it would kinda side track my thoughts below.

If an aluminum or jointed ceaning rod can collect abrasive residue from firing, and thus cause wear, then wont the bore brush also collect it and cause the same problems, regardless of the rod used? I would have to think the brush would in fact cause WAY more damage from imbedded residue than a rod ever could, since the entire brush is in contact with the entire bore, where as a rod is just "bumping" into the side occasionally.

So, if thats the case, compared to how much "grit" the brush has imbedded, and is being ground down the entire length of the bore, around the entire inside diameter, is the small amount of imbedded grit on a cleaning rod, the comparatively tiny amount it will be touching the bore (if at all), insignificant?

Not saying I disagree with what anyone is saying theory-wise, just wondering if in the end, the type of rod used has enough effect compared to wear from shooting, and from the brush, for it to really even matter at all in the end. Obviousy, every little bit helps, like using a bore guide, cleaning from the breach, etc, but compared to the damage caused by just using a brush in the first place, or cleaning from the muzzle without a guide,if it even matters.

I have been using the Outers 3 piece aluminum rods my whole life, as did my father, and really everyone I have ever personally asked or seen, as it seemed to work just fine and not cause any problems, but the brush itself has always made me wonder. In fact, I have been considering getting some synthetic ones, but now, based on the what I'm hearing about wear being caused by "grit" from firing during cleaning, I wonder if that would even make a difference, since it's not the brass that causes it like I was worried about, butthe grit in/on it, and I would think if it can dget in/on brass and aluminum, it will get in/on ANYTHING.

what everyones opinion on this? In the end, grand scheme, does the material the brush and rod are made of matter?

 

[JohnBT]

Sure, brushes get dirty. I always start cleaning with a patch after a shot or two of Gunscrubber down the bore. I frequently clean my brushes with a shot of Gunscrubber.

I don't think any of this makes a bit of difference if you trade your guns every 2 or 3 years. For those of us who keep guns for 30, 40, or more years, well, like you said, every little bit helps.

I'm going to keep listening to the gunsmiths with the borescopes.

John

 

[taliv]

getting a sense of deja vu here... but for my precision guns, i do not use brushes and i sure don't use bore snakes (which have brushes embedded. i soak the bore in solvent, then i use a dewey rod and sinclair bore guide, push it one way, unscrew the jag from the end, lift it with my fingers as i pull it back through past the muzzle, then i wipe the rod with a patch, replace the jag, put a new patch on, and repeat about 10 times.

granted, i only clean the gun maybe 2-3x per year like that. it goes several hundred rounds between cleaning.

for my ARs, i use brushes and jags on dewey rods. i only run the brush one-way, but i do it a couple dozen times. again, only 2-3x per year, which is typically several thousand rounds between cleaning. i do occasionally run a bore snake through my ARs and 1911. i also had one for my barrett 50bmg.

 

[Horsemany]

jrfoxx

That's an excellent point. It will definately matter how much the gun is cleaned. A competetive shooter will clean his bore more in a day than a hunter may in a year. The shooting world is a breeding ground for B.S. Most of what ends up being written about cleaning products comes from someone trying to sell cleaning products or a writer in the gun rags who is heavily bias to earn some $$ for the sponsors.

Here's a good example of how full of myths the gun cleaning guru's (some gunsmiths included) are. Does anyone else remember about 10 to 15 years ago all the copper solvents that were bragging they contained no ammonia? At the time it was widely accepted that ammonia should never be in a bore because it will etch it. And even if you couldn't see the etching, it was there on a "microscopic level". We have since realized that nothing really gets copper out better, and it doesn't hurt your bore when used properly. What some people thought was etching was really found to be microscopic stress cracks caused by the manufacturing process of the bore. For all of you who believe grit embeds into cleaning rods to cause wear that's called a PARADOX. You can see something that really exists like muzzle wear and be totally wrong about what caused it. And just because any gunsmith says something doesn't make it so. My gunsmiths have been wrong about things as have been my mechanics. It is just their educated opinion. While it's worth something it's still just an opinion. Any grit on a properly used cleaning rod contributes little to muzzle wear.

 

[eliphalet]

Any NRA members here? Interesting article and experiments on this subject in the March issue of American Hunter.