CT: CCW holder victim of road rage, gets arrested

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IMHO, One should not have been in such a situation in the first place. Why did he stop??? Some of the very basic rules of self defense are don't put yourself in bad situations, and if you find yourself in a bad situation then what are you still doing there.

CY6,
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
Chief Instructor
www.TheDefensiveEdge.com
 
I think Shea would have felt threatened. Here is a man who followed him, comes to his car window with a long flashlight DURING DAYTIME (before 6PM). I wonder how this is going to turn out.
 
Sully, amen, brother. BTW, used one of your stocks at a Rogers carbine class. It rocks. :cool:

What--arrested the CCWer? Whatever for? I'm certain the po-po surely meant to give him a community service award.

But, but doesn't the possess of a CCW license allow one to act like Batman and chase down evildoers delivering fast Judo chops? :confused:

Problem #2 rears its ugly head.
 
It gets fuzzy after Flashlight Guy left the scene and Gun Guy started following him. That starts looking like an aggressive action on HIS part.

Actualy that's not fuzzy in my opinion - that's where ccw holder made his biggest mistake.

If I were the LEO on this one, I would ask the flashlight guy wether he wanted to press charges - if he said yes , I would remind him that I would also be charging him with terroristic threats . ( a degree of assualt in my state anyway ). If he then decided to drop the matter I would explain to each what they did wrong and send them on their way, hoping they both learned something.
 
Improper carrying is the problem

This example of pulling from glovebox to lap is the very reason I carry up-front, in-the-pant holster, under my shirt.

I can access my cocked/locked 1911 without anyone seeing. If need be, I could shoot throw my own shirt/jacket. I NEVER CARRY IN BRIEFCASE OR GLOVEBOX. This also answers someone's recent post about hammer down on a 1911 or empty-chamber carry: Never!

I always carry fully loaded, cocked, locked, up-front, and ALWAYS CONCEALED!!!
 
Perhaps Shae was 'following' the other guy because that was the way Shae wanted to go? It does say specifically that he was not intently following, so he probably kept well back.

Alternatively perhaps he doesn't have a cell-phone (gasp), and simply wanted to, while driving safely and following at a safe distance, aquire the license plate number of the flashlight assaulter (assault=threat and battery=action, right?).
 
Shea's biggest mistake was not being the first to call 9-1-1. If he had called and told the police that another driver had threatened him with a club and that he was attempting to disengage but had a CCW if needed -- the police would have been there double-quick to arrest the flashlight man.

Following Morris after he had disengaged was Shea's second mistake.
 
Shea's mistake(s)
1. Following Morris. After pulling the pistol on Morris, Shea should not have followed Morris.
2. Shea talked to the police.

Things might have turned out differently if Shea had kept his mouth shut while Morris went over the details of everything he did wrong.

If you have to pull your CCW, you need to talk to your attorney, and then submit a statement to the police. Expensive, yes, but cheaper than posting bail.
 
"Sounds like the real life version of "Dumb and Dumber" What a couple of bozos."
+1

Up to the point where Morris left the scene, each and every action on the part of both these guys escalated the situation. And to top it all off, Shea let's it appear as though he's trying to continue the confrontation after Morris breaks off?

Simply remarkable.
 
Hindsight is 20/20.

I've heard there are 2 ways to learn, #1 from your mistakes and #2 from other people's mistakes.

I've learned that if another driver tries to communicate, and I'm not sure what they want, I might pull over. Maybe my muffler is dragging on the pavement, or maybe the other guy has problems at work and wants to take them out on someone. If it's the former I'll thank them, if it's the latter I'll drive away, because I stopped in such a manner that driving away would not be hindered and I didn't turn the ignition off or put the transmission in park.

If I encountered the situation but had never considered it before, then I probably would make mistakes! So thank-you Mr. Shae, live and learn.
 
A man in his car, waving a "bat or club" at a man in another car is not life threatening by any standard. All you need to do in order to de-escalate the situation is step on that little pedal under your right foot and LEAVE.
 
The a 3-5 d or c cell flashlight is a deadly weapon and more deadlier then a standard billy club. There have been many documented killings by this.
Sure, just ask Rodney King or Malice Green. Oh that's right, you can't.

I think flashlights have been taken very seriously ever since these 2.
 
To those observing that a large, heavy-duty flashlight can be a deadly weapon, you're right. But, with both men in their respective cars the club (flashlight) becomes very ineffective. If they were both on foot and one man is wielding a large flashlight, then of course it becomes a serious threat. But not in this case.

Like I said, both acted badly, but the law (rightly or wrongly) will hold the man with the gun more wrong because he was expected to show better judgment.

Sort of like a karate champion getting into a fight with a drunk in a bar. The law would hold him to a higher standard and expect him to walk away if at all possible where some leeway might be shown to some untrained boob who started swinging at the first insult.
 
Compare and contrast with this incident in Aurora, Colorado:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1429725/posts

[BLOCKQUOTE]
Off-duty cop pulls gun in road rage incident

9News.com ^ | June 24, 2005 | Chip Youst

Posted on 06/24/2005 7:14:36 AM PDT by Millee

An Aurora Police officer is facing disciplinary action after an incident in which he pulled his gun on another motorist during an off-duty altercation on the highway.

It started with a lane change on I-225.

That's the part everyone agrees on. What everybody doesn't agree on is whether or not the officer - who was off-duty, out of uniform and driving his personal car - should have pulled his gun on the other driver.

"I put my signal on and started to merge lanes when my fiancee tells me that there's car over there," said Parker Bell. (Bell is the other motorist, not the police officer)

Bell admits he cut off the other driver. However, Bell says the other driver still had time to slow down - but wouldn't.

"The person driving this pickup then takes the shoulder - speeds past me - (and) they're just waving their hands and yelling inside their vehicle," Bell said.

Then, Bell says he got mad, too.

"I was upset and I was angry and I flicked the person in the blue pickup off," Bell said.

Bell's fiancée, Ashley Meadows, says she tried to calm Bell down.

"They were both kind of antagonizing each other - the guy would pull on the side of him and say something, or look at him or something - and then Parker would get mad and he would say something back," Meadows said.

The blue pickup exited at Alameda. Parker Bell - who says he was taking his pregnant fiancee to a doctor's appointment around the corner - got off at the same exit - pulling up behind the other driver.

Bell says he saw the man staring at him again in his rear view mirror - and that Bell again made more hand gestures.

That's when the other driver (Officer Mark Asmussen) got out of his car - gun drawn - and approached Parker Bell - who was still sitting in the driver's seat. His fiancée says she immediately reached over, rolled up Parker's window and locked the doors.

"When I saw the gun, I was like: 'Oh my God - he's going to shoot him,'" Meadows said.

Turns out the other driver was an off-duty Aurora cop - but Bell and his fiancée say they didn't know that because he wasn't displaying a badge.

Ashley called 911.

Bell and Meadows say that the officer pulled on the door and told Parker to open it and show him his driver's license. Only after trying unsuccessfully to open Bell's car door does Bell say that the officer showed his badge.

Ashley's 911 call appears to back up that account.


But Aurora Police Chief Terry Jones says the officer, Mark Asmussen, has a different story.

"The officer indicates that as soon as he got out of his truck he held his badge out and approached the car with the badge in front of his body," Jones says.

And, Jones says if the officer felt threatened - as Jones says he apparently did - then he was within policy to have his gun drawn.

Bell and Meadows see no reason why the officer should have felt threatened. They say Bell was still in his car with his seat belt on, with his fiancée and his two year old son. They say at no time did Bell give any indication he was going to get out of the car.

Jones says the officer apparently didn't feel the same way. Even so, Chief Jones says Officer Asmussen could have handled things differently. He could have called in an on-duty officer to handle the situation.

"Get assistance from a marked car that's on duty and then you avoid all these circumstances," Jones said.

Asmussen is now facing discipline in the form of a write up in his file - but the discipline is not for pulling his gun.

The discipline is for the traffic ticket he wrote Parker Bell after the incident. Since Asmussen was off duty, Chief Jones says writing Bell the ticket went against department policy.

Nevertheless, the chief doesn't plan to drop the ticket against Parker Bell. He says the evidence suggests the ticket - which was for an illegal lane change - was warranted.


Bell plans on fighting the ticket in court.
[/BLOCKQUOTE]
 
The a 3-5 d or c cell flashlight is a deadly weapon and more deadlier then a standard billy club. There have been many documented killings by this.

Sure, just ask Rodney King or Malice Green. Oh that's right, you can't.

I think flashlights have been taken very seriously ever since these 2.


Are you implying that Rodney King was killed?
 
I have been involved in road rage incidents before. Normally it starts over something really lame and just escalates from there. I try to be more careful now. I have never pulled my gun on anyone in a situation like that. I hope that I never have to; because when I took my CWP class that was one of the things that the instructor pushed. "Pull your gun only if you are ready to kill someone". I just try to keep in mind that I don't know what kind of day the other person has had. Never know what mental state they are in. As for me I will try to be the bigger person and be a little more forgiving just so that I don't have to deal with these situations.
 
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