Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade(UK)

[Fetus]

Looks like that uk gun ban really helped

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade

By James Slack
Last updated at 8:42 AM on 27th October 2009

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Gun crime has increased five-fold in some parts of the UK

Gun crime has almost doubled since Labour came to power as a culture of extreme gang violence has taken hold.

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold.

In eighteen police areas, gun crime at least doubled.

The statistic will fuel fears that the police are struggling to contain gang-related violence, in which the carrying of a firearm has become increasingly common place.

Last week, police in London revealed they had begun carrying out armed patrols on some streets.

The move means officers armed with sub-machine guns are engaged in routine policing for the first time.

Shadow Home Secretary, Chris Grayling, said last night: 'In areas dominated by gang culture, we're now seeing guns used to settle scores between rivals as well as turf wars between rival drug dealers.

'We need to redouble our efforts to deal with the challenge.'

He added: 'These figures are all the more alarming given that it is only a week since the Metropolitan Police said it was increasing regular armed patrols in some areas of the capital'.


The gun crime figures, which were obtained by the Tories from official Parliamentary answers, do not include air weapons.

But they provide the first regional breakdown of the increasing use of firearms.

Lancashire suffered the single largest rise in gun crime, with recorded offences increasing from 50 in 1998/99 to 349 in 2007/08, an increase of 598 per cent.


Armed: Officers engaged in routine policing are carrying sub-machine guns for the first time

Only four police forces - Cleveland-Humberside, Cambridgeshire and Sussex - recorded falls in gun crime.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .

The figures follow a warning by Mr Grayling that U.S.-style gang culture has reached some parts of the UK.

In August, he made a controversial speech warning that a collapse of 'civilised life' had allowed a brutal drug and gun crime culture - like that of the U.S. TV show The Wire - to flourish in Britain.

The hit TV series tracks the nightmare of gangs and organised crime in inner city West Baltimore and the futile efforts of police to deal with them.

The Met's decision to employ armed officers on the streets has attracted criticism.

But the force, which has already begun the scheme, insists that the unprecedented tactic is a proportionate and temporary response to prevent armed gangs from controlling estates.
Trident

Trident poster campaign warning of dangers of young women and girls storing and transporting guns for others

Last month, police warned that teenage girls were now being dragged into the gun culture by hiding weapons for their boyfriends.

Police are targeting girls between 15 and 19 with an advertising blitz warning them that they can expect a five-year prison sentence if they are caught.

The number of women charged with firearms offences in London has increased six-fold in the past year - 12 have been charged since January.

Seven of them were teenagers, including a 16-year-old arrested after a 9mm Browning self-loading pistol was found in her bedroom.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html#ixzz0VAimpu9E

 

[meytind]

Not surprising at all. Neither is the reporter referring to what looks to be a grenade launcher as a sub machinegun

 

[Yosemite Sam]

So when will Parliament decriminalize gun ownership/possession for law-abiding UK citizens? What will it take? Is this enough?

 

[Artiz]

The UK is already dead.

 

[Hacker15E]

When they started to call it "gun crime", the battle was ideologically lost.

 

[happygeek]

Newspaper's caption for above photo: "Armed: Officers engaged in routine policing are carrying sub-machine guns for the first time"

Huh, looks like a launcher for tear gas grenades and the other cop's holding what looks like a Steyr AUG, but hey, they're the journalist. Makes you wonder how much of the rest of the news is mis-reported.

But seriously, I thought guns were illegal in England. How in God's name do the gangbangers have them?! Next you're going to tell me the gangbangers have assault rifles

 

[JoeSlomo]

But HOW can there be MORE gun crime after they BANNED them.



The U.K. is lost...

 

[hammerklavier]

Just think how bad things would be if they hadn't banned guns!

 

[RS14]

But seriously, I thought guns were illegal in England. How in God's name do the gangbangers have them?! Next you're going to tell me the gangbangers have assault rifles

If you're really interested, the Home Office published a very interesting study of the market. It seems that few or none have automatic rifles, but a few submachineguns have been found.

"I wasn’t planning nothing, but you see, I don’t know, let me see if I can put it simply enough. You see, guns like now are getting upgraded. Because you can be out there chatting with somebody and you get into an argument or something like that, and you pull out a 9mm and they pull out a MAC-10. People came to kill me... you know with MAC-10s, three MAC-10s."

They're not terribly popular, fortunately.

"I had a MAC-10 back in 2002 – well, I was offered it. But the only thing was the price of the ****ing bullets; it is not viable, you know what I mean? ...I was offered a £5 a bullet. And you know you have got 30 in a clip. One spray is £150. Because it is a road sweeper. You don’t use it for shooting someone or doing a robbery, it’s a waste of time... you can’t aim it, it goes everywhere, so it is stupid."

 

[BBroadside]

I believe the officer in foreground is carrying a Heckler & Koch 40mm grenade launcher.

The rear sight is something other than the usual ladder sight. Almost looks like a small red dot sight (which I believe our pals on the other side of the pond would call a "collimator sight"). Any ideas?

With a red dot sight, it implies some sort of direct-fire munition, not HE of course (not likely for police use!) or some sort of tear gas round (which is what I think of as the usual anti-riot munition). Either of those would probably call for the usual ladder sight. With the pictured sight I'm thinking it's loaded with a 40mm baton round, rubber buckshot, or some of muzzle-dispersed gas (don't know if anyone uses this any more). Any ideas?
(Edit: Sorry, I've gone crazy with the links. Much as I think the job of riot cop would be like the worst job on earth exaggeration, I think riot control stuff and 40mm ammo is extremely cool.)

 

[woodybrighton2]

it will be a baton round mostly used as a non lethal way of dealing with sieges.
nutter armed with knife sword barricades himself in with hostages usually.
gets lured out police hit him with baton round job done.
NON lethal not safe if that fails they have lethal force on tap
A baton round is probably the most effective non lethal round you can get but its no replacement for a taser needs a minimum safe distance can and has killed.
50000 offecnes 9,865 offences
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/britain-records-18-fall-in-gun-deaths-1232069.html
42 deaths from guns last year in a population that includes suicides and accidents of 60 odd million majority were gangbangers

california 989 deaths from guns in 2007

much as I'd like the right to self defence returned. arguing it needs to be returned due to rampant gun crime is actually false. take out the gangs and would be gansta's and gun crime becomes virtually non exsistant

 

[TEDDY]

UK

when the colonies went alot of the people moved to england as they were british citizens,and so are the muslems.big mistake as they are all violent cultures.

 

[Tommygunn]

much as I'd like the right to self defence returned. arguing it needs to be returned due to rampant gun crime is actually false. take out the gangs and would be gansta's and gun crime becomes virtually non exsistant.

A situation not dissimilar to America.
If you subtract inner city gang violence, and that caused by drug runners and other types of gangs, the murder rate in America winds up resembling that of one of the European countries.
It is simply not true that we "armed Americans" are simply shooting each other all over the place because we own guns.
I can believe gangs cause a lot of grief in the UK as well ... but I find it a special type of irony that many in the UK believe the media portrayal of America as a violent country ... given the above truths....

 

[D-Day]

I thank my lucky stars I was fortunate enough to be born and raised in America. We really can't take what we have for granted.

 

[woodybrighton2]

that is probalby true most of the uk gangs model themselves on the US gangs but uk population 61 million deaths by guns 42
califronia population 30 million deaths by guns 940 odd

the arguement of more guns = less crime not sure that arguement really works
with stats like that.

 

[Cosmoline]

The gun laws in California are complicated. You'd need to do a county-by-county comparison and see how the rates change between counties and cities where LEO's are hostile to the RKBA and those in the rural north where the situation is different.

 

[Werewolf]

In a culture dominated by an attitude that the government will take care of everything for its subjects including guaranteeing their safety it is only to be expected that the wolves heretofore held at bay by responsible folk responsible for their on safety will escape the bounds of civilized rule when the preponderance of those around them have become sheep.

Predator and prey. When prey stops fighting back or can't run fast enough predators thrive.

That is -after all - the natural order of things.

There may be hope for the future of the UK but in the words of Spock it is a very tiny, a miniscule even, hope.

 

[femoralis]

Some US state (the Dakotas, for example) have both lax gun laws and murder rates comparable to or lower than many European countries.


Overall, there is no relationship between a countries gun laws and the murder rate.

 

[Tommygunn]

that is probalby true most of the uk gangs model themselves on the US gangs but uk population 61 million deaths by guns 42
califronia population 30 million deaths by guns 940 odd

the arguement of more guns = less crime not sure that arguement really works
with stats like that.

The argument is that in areas of the U.S. where citizens can easily obtain firearms, the murder rates are generally lower than in areas where guns are prohibited.
For example, if banning guns actually worked, then Washington DC, which has had a severe gun control law in place since 1976, would be much more tranquil than elsewhere. Yet, it is not. A block or two from the white house and gang violence is a significant law enforcement problem. Washington DC has, at some points in time, been refered to as the "murder capital of America" due to the crime rate there.
Also, look at Kennesaw Georgia. This is the flip side of this thought experiment. They passed a law a couple of decades ago requiring homeowners to possess weapons.
The crime rate then went down. The antigunners had claimed that people would be in the streets shooting each other. But that didn't happen.
In 1987 Florida became much more gun friendly, and the antis decried Florida becoming "the gunshine state." However, their fears never materialized.
Comparing California stats to UK stats is a bit erroneous. First, guns are hardly a cure-all no matter how positive I hold the right to keep and bear arms. The cultures are very different, the problems are different, and so forth.
Looking at what happens within a pre-described area might be far more revealing, since the people remain the same, and the existance or non-existance of (LEGAL) guns might be legitimnatly believed to be a far greater factor insofar as cause/effect is concerned.

 

[armoredman]

The Uk can do what they want, have fun, but what gets me is, again, like Japan did years ago, we are blamed for it..."US style gang violence", a "US television show", they did it to themselves, AND, our police do not patrol with subguns in hand.

 

[herkyguy]

I forwarded the article to my Senators, Congressman, and Governor. Politicians don't spend their hours reading THR. If you are concerned about this, I would humbly suggest you bring this to the attention of those who make these sort of decisions in our own government so we don't go down the same road.

 

[ljnowell]

that is probalby true most of the uk gangs model themselves on the US gangs but uk population 61 million deaths by guns 42
califronia population 30 million deaths by guns 940 odd

the arguement of more guns = less crime not sure that arguement really works
with stats like that.

Can you please post the source of your data, along with the data for UK and US? I would be curious to look at this in another light.

It should interest you that I live in IL. I looked for some data online and I found some gun death data for 1996. It showed IL having more gun deaths than California, and we have less than 1/3 the population. Ironically we are one of two states that DO NOT have concealed carry. We have waiting periods to purchase anything, no exceptions.

We also have the most populous area of our state, in reality a large portion of our population, with an outright ban. Chicago laws requrie that you have ZERO possesion of a handgun, semi-automatic long guns are prohibited, and you must register all firearms that are allowed. Sounds pretty European to me. Thats also where the majority of our gun related homicides occur.

Which brings me to my other point, is your data only related to negative shootings? What I mean is does your data count shootings involving a person defending themselves. I have seen lots of studies that include homeowners protecting their family, or a person protecting themselves from an armed attacker counted as "gun crimes." In reality, these are crimes prevented by gun ownership. Its amazing how that can be spun, isnt it?

I honestly think that you have bought into the gun control concept because its been rammed down your throat and beaten into you. I feel sorry for you and wish that someday you can have your rights restored to you.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Hmmmm..........about the same rate as inflation...........................

 

[woodybrighton2]

to be honest I doubt the right to carry a weapon for self defence would make me any safer.
possilby less safe actually as there are some people out there who I am unhappy having access to cars let alone guns.
but then having a right restored is about having the right

 

[ljnowell]

to be honest I doubt the right to carry a weapon for self defence would make me any safer.
possilby less safe actually as there are some people out there who I am unhappy having access to cars let alone guns.
but then having a right restored is about having the right

I dont doubt that. You have spent too long being told that carrying a gun will make you foam at the mouth and decide to kill people. Honest law abiding citizens turn to criminals when they touch a gun, dontcha know?

I'm not trying to sound like I am being a jerk to you, I am not, in fact, its a really nice experience chatting with someone from a country with such great differences in gun laws. It allows you to see the others perspective and how they came about possessing that perspective. It seems in European countries that guns are thought of as bad and unneeded. Here its the opposite, with the exception of the radical antis that would turn us into, no offense, you. I dont want that. I certainly feel safer knowing that I can protect my family.