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Gun crime in The United Kingdom has doubled

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Beachmaster, Aug 26, 2007.

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  1. Beachmaster

    Beachmaster Member

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    Ten years after Great Britain banned handguns, the use of handguns to commit crimes has doubled.

    http://timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2317307.ece

    Senior police officers have been warning for several months that a growing number of teenagers in big cities are becoming involved in gun crime.

    The age of victims and suspects has fallen over the past three years as the availability of firearms in some cities has risen. Liverpool and Manchester are the cities where illegal guns are most readily available, with criminals claiming that some weapons are being smuggled from Ireland. Sawn-off shotguns are now being sold for as little as £50, and handguns for £150.

    Despite a ban on handguns introduced in 1997 after 16 children and their teacher were shot dead in the Dunblane massacre the previous year, their use in crimes has almost doubled to reach 4,671 in 2005-06. Official figures show that although Britain has some of the toughest anti-gun laws in the world, firearm use in crime has risen steadily. This year eight young people have been killed in gun attacks: six in London and one each in Manchester and Liverpool.

    “Illegal firearms have become increasingly accessible to younger offenders who appear more likely to use these firearms recklessly,” a report on gun crime commissioned by the Home Office cautioned last year.

    The research supports warnings from police chiefs in Merseyside and London about the spread of gun use in gangs and among teenagers.

    Bernard Hogan-Howe, the Chief Constable of Merseyside, said this year that although gun crime in the area had fallen there had been an increase in the number of teenagers involved in firearms crimes.

    Figures from the Metropolitan Police show that the average age of gun crime victims in London fell from 24 to 19 between 2004-06 and that there was a similar trend among suspects charged in connection with shootings.

    Mr Hogan-Howe said that youths were being protected by a wall of silence, and he demanded a new law to compel the public to give information about gun crime. He said that action must be taken to break down the power base of families involved in gun crime. “Families who do nothing to stop their children’s involvement in gun crime put society at risk and could find themselves identifying their child in the morgue,” he said.
    (I put the bold type in)

    The Home Office research highlighted how guns were an integral part of a gang culture in which guns were used to deal with disputes. “In the context of firearm ownership, even quite trivial disputes may result in shootings as the presence of guns elevates threat levels and the so-called ‘shoot or be shot’ scenario precipitates pre-emptive violence,” the study said.

    Policies to help to deal with the problem were considered at a scheduled No 10 summit yesterday, chaired by Gordon Brown and attended by Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, Beverley Hughes, the Children’s Minister, Lord Hunt, the Justice Minister, as well as police chiefs and local government leaders.

    It was the first of a series of meetings to tackle the issue. Mandatory minimum jail sentences for carrying knives and requiring people to give information if they are aware that people have illegal weapons are among the ideas under discussion. Mrs Smith has asked the Serious Organised Crime Agency to look atways to curb the importation of illegal weapons.

    After the 90-minute meeting, the Prime Minister said: “Make no mistake about this — the people responsible will be tracked down, they will be arrested and they will be punished.” He said that the Home Office would be earmarking ten areas for an intensive campaign against gun and knife crime. The areas will be announced next week.

    Mr Brown added that families would be offered greater support. “The vast majority of young people are decent and law-abiding. They too want to feel safe and secure on our streets. Where there’s a need for early intervention, we will work very intensively with those families so that young people are deterred from going into gangs and guns and knife crime,” he said.

    Mrs Smith has outlined a range of measures, including the increased use of Acceptable Behaviour Contracts and a crackdown on the sale of alcohol to under-age children. The Government has issued guidance to police and local authorities on how to use the contracts — written pledges to improve behaviour — effectively.

    David Cameron said that social breakdown would be the central theme of the Conservative election manifesto. Sir Menzies Campbell, leader of the Liberal Democrats, called for a “change of atmosphere” in communities with gang violence, but said that there was “no simple solution


    I like how some idiot thinks that you need a law to force people to squeal on bad guys with guns! Even a law is not going to make people risk retaliation from bad guys with guns. What they need is a law that allows honest citizens to own weapons, so they can protect themselves.
     
  2. RLsnow

    RLsnow Member

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    so in england...pretty much only the bad guys have guns...

    wow...
     
  3. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Acceptable Behavior Contracts??

    What is WRONG with these people?
     
  4. MattB000

    MattB000 Member

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    In all fairness, banning guns is almost always going to lead to an increase in "gun crime." Think of it as if we banned, say, cucumbers. I guarantee you cucumber crime would be through the roof!
     
  5. Mannix

    Mannix Member

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    We already have "acceptable behavior contracts", they're called laws.

    How many times must this be proven wrong before people get it?
     
  6. PercyShelley

    PercyShelley Member

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    True enough. I'm sure that we would see an end to all oyster-related felonies in Texas (see the Texas felony thread) were many oyster-related activities decriminalized there. And just what activities are so scandalous that they're felonous in Texas? Well, see the thread!;)

    The salient point here is that the level of violent crime has increased, contrary to their expectations. Gun crime has not increased because more acts have been declared illegal, but it seems that activities that were already illegal, and indeed activities that any functioning society would be necessity deem illegal, have increased.
     
  7. Diamondback6

    Diamondback6 Member

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    MattB, doing that would put almost all burger and hot-dog lovers into a real pickle...:neener:

    It seems cultural. Over there the message is "rely on us", or so it seems. More collectivism, less individualism; also "top-down" instead of "bottom-up" flow of political power. Just 'cause the Crown's direct rule has been replaced with "Crown-in-Parliament" doesn't mean there isn't still a privileged "ruling class"...

    No offense intended to our members across the Pond--I'm probably oversimplifying, if any of you care to educate us what's going on over there, I for one am willing to learn.
     
  8. Isildur

    Isildur Member

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    When you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

    Gun control works - for criminals.

    Each time I read such an article I find my self boiling with anger about these people and their stupidity, still proposing tougher gun-control although its obvious that this will only lead to more deaths and a country of cowards.
    Gun-control kills! Maybe someday people in Britain(and other countries) will realize this (inconvenient) truth.
     
  9. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    There are none so blind as those who will not see.
     
  10. alucard0822

    alucard0822 Member

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    It's a simple fact that criminals rely on weapons to both intimidate and overpower victims of crime and for protection from other criminals, no law has ever proven effective in overcoming this need. With england basically banning every type of arm developed since the pointy stick, it would seem you would be better off with the most potent weapons available, seeing as a knife will land you in prison, might as well carry a machine pistol, SBS or so on. People are basically defenseless, emplored not to resist, and the worst a criminal has to fear is a few cameras and telephones that could bring police in minutes. There is not much more that could be done to encourage crime.

    To combat people who posess and use illicit arms to commit crimes they are planning on making it slightly more difficult to get alcohol?, and if all the laws and their corresponding punishments don't work, make them sign a peice of paper and promise to be good?

    I stand corrected, apparently there are more things that can be done to encourage crime.

    It seems England has only brought chiding remarks and scowles of displesure to a gunfight.
     
  11. Skoghund

    Skoghund Member

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    I was born and lived in England for 54 years. What a piss poor country GB has become. Politicians who would sell their grandmother to get back into power. Bloody stupid knee jerk reactions to gun issues. Plus the people in power have no idea how to tackle gang or arms crime. That go's for the police as well. I'm just glad i don't live there any more. Tony Blair and his cronies, i would not piss on them if they were on fire. :fire:
     
  12. Cannonball888

    Cannonball888 Member

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    And it's blind governments like Britain and Austrailia who will try to convince the UN to disarm everyone. :cuss:
     
  13. JohnL2

    JohnL2 Member

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    Interesting comments Skoghund.
    Assuming that you are living in the states; how do you like it so far?
     
  14. KelVarnson

    KelVarnson Member

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    What?! No... The crimes they're talking about were already crimes before there was a gun ban. And now that there is a gun ban, there are more such crimes. They didn't become crimes just because the gun ban was enacted.
     
  15. alucard0822

    alucard0822 Member

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    Don't underestimate the same factions at work here in the US. America has a different culture and history reguarding arms and SD than england, but we are by no means immune to the same problems here. Privately owned firearms represent the single largest obstacle to implementing widely unpopular policies that may be seen as socialist, unjust, or even violating the soverignty of our nation. Armed criminals don't present that big of a challenge to those in power, as they tend to fight amongst themselves and are disorganized, but armed citizens have througout our history shifted political support of unjust policies. Diasarming citizens both makes effective resistence less likely, and can be presented as a measure to protect citizens from any number of real or imagined dangers. Gun control has never been about crime control, its about people control.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2007
  16. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    If isolated island nations that bans guns suffer an increase in gun related crimes increase, what success would a nation that shares borders with other nations have if it also bans guns? None. Yet, the gun banners will never learn.

    It's not about gun control, it's about controlling criminals. Punish them.
     
  17. ftierson

    ftierson Member.

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    Actually, it's not even about criminal control, it's about people control...

    The people in power don't really expect their gun control laws to work. They expect them to make things worse for the average citizen (or, in the UK, the average subject)...

    Bad times justify tighter controls...

    The 'lords' remain lords and the serfs remain serfs...

    Works pretty well for the lords...

    Forrest
     
  18. DCoats

    DCoats Member

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    Thanks for the article. Good info.
     
  19. Isildur

    Isildur Member

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    Regrettably not only Britain and Australia. At least since 1968 you can count on "my"(f***ing) country and some other European countries as well when it comes to promoting stupidity and BS on a global scale.
     
  20. Nomad101bc

    Nomad101bc Member

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    Well germany has more stringent gun laws but from what i understood they were not so bad. The only problem is your members of the EU who are very anti gun and that might end up trickling down to you.
     
  21. Black Adder LXX

    Black Adder LXX Member

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    This should be a lesson to all of us to keep fighting to keep our rights...
     
  22. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Britain's Problem

    I dunno guys...I think this must be bogus. There can't be any gun crime in Great Britain, 'cause there ain't any guns in Great Britain. They banned'em.
    Remember?:scrutiny:
     
  23. Skoghund

    Skoghund Member

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    JohnL2. I moved to Sweden. Where gun ownership is not such a bind as in England. And everybody knows someone who hunts. I have 3 good rifle ranges within 30 mins travel. plus gun licences that last for life.
    I find it a drag to even visit England now.
     
  24. RLsnow

    RLsnow Member

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    i live in norway and the government aint so happy about gun stuff

    you cant own one for self defense, but if you say its for competition (and can somewhat prove it, membership at a local range would suffice me thinks) or its for hunting (which you would need a hunting license for) then you can have em...

    but with a population of only 4 million crime isnt so much a problem...or so i hear
     
  25. Geronimo45

    Geronimo45 Member

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    According to one of the currency converters, that gives about $300 for a handgun. Not a bad price, especially for the black market.
     
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