Curious about iron sights issue.

[Gun Geezer]

I have come into possession of a 30-30 Trapper. It's got full buckhorn rear sight and a blade (no bead) front.

This is a cool rifle, but it does not fit me. Stock is too short and very thin. I'm not getting rid of it, so don't ask .

Anyway, because of the way it fits, the "natural" hold gives me a sight picture with the front sight just a tad off center to the right in the rear sight. Not quite as much as shown, but using the key pad draw with I get this exaggerated pitiful artwork as shown.

..|
\ /

My question: This rifle is shooting 2" left at 25 yards. Would this hold cause that? I would have thought it would shoot right if I held with that sight picture. But what do I know.

Any insights appreciated.

 

[Coyote3855]

I find your post somewhat confusing. What's a "natural hold?" Is that the sight picture/sight alignment you get when you mount the rifle to your shoulder? What's the middle image in your diagram? You say the front sight is a tad to the right with natural hold, but your diagram seems to show it to the left. If the front sight is off to the right of the rear sight, then your shots would go right. But if the front sight is as shown in your diagram, then the shots would go left.

Try again to explain more clearly what's going on.

I assumed the straight line represented the front sight? Or is that the stock? Where is the muzzle in your diagram?

 

[243winxb]

Bullet should hit to the right. But when making an adjustment to the front sight by moving it in a dove tail, its different. Moving the front sight to the right will make bullets impact more to the left. confusing

 

[Gun Geezer]

I did an "edit" and changed the pic. Seems it was not very good. Take another look now at the first post.

The straight line "|" is the front sight. The "v" is the rear sight. Ignore the periods I had to use to get proper spacing for the "|".

Yes, the sight picture I get when I shoulder the rifle and get cheek weld is what I call "natural hold".

 

[Bart B.]

Yes, it's possible the rifle shoots to the left of the front sight with that sight picture and the target centered atop the front sight. Such is normal with lots of people and their rifle stocks. Some people lace on a cheekpiece to the stock to get that "natural" position.

You need to press your cheek less hard against the stock comb then align the front sight in the middle of the 'V' in the rear sight. Then shoot it and move either the front or rear to the side until the rifle shoots where it's aimed. Move front sight to the right to move bullet impact left; rear to the left to move impact left. Then adjust elevation on the rear sight as needed; up to move up.

 

[Jackal]

Line the sights up. Hit your target. Screw this "natural hold" nonsense. It isnt a handgun and your not point shooting.

 

[Bart B.]

There really is a natural hold and point of aim with rifles. If you shoot using an unnatural one, your bullets will go towards it relative to the intended target.

You find it by aiming at the target, closing your eyes for several seconds then opening them. Your natural point of aim is where the sights are relative to the target.

 

[Gun Geezer]

Line the sights up. Hit your target. Screw this "natural hold" nonsense. It isnt a handgun and your not point shooting.

Of course. Would not leave it that way. Going to adjust something. Either a lace on leather check piece as suggested by Bart B. or move the sight. Probably both eventually!

 

[Gun Geezer]

Yes, it's possible the rifle shoots to the left of the front sight with that sight picture and the target centered atop the front sight. Such is normal with lots of people and their rifle stocks. Some people lace on a cheekpiece to the stock to get that "natural" position.

You need to press your cheek less hard against the stock comb then align the front sight in the middle of the 'V' in the rear sight. Then shoot it and move either the front or rear to the side until the rifle shoots where it's aimed. Move front sight to the right to move bullet impact left; rear to the left to move impact left. Then adjust elevation on the rear sight as needed; up to move up.

Appreciate the input, Bart B.

 

[Malamute]

When its all said and done, you need to use the sights to aim no matter how the gun fits you when "naturally" thrown up and pointed.

I never adjust the front if its centered in the barrel or ramp, even if the rear is waaay off center, as a couple of pre-64 94's have been for me. One, the center of the peep aperture was about even with the right edge of the hammer. Oh well, thats where its sighted in, I just use it. It doesnt seem to hamper being able to hit running rabbits and things like that.

It sounds like it isnt sighted in in any event, and needs to be adjusted to hit to the sights.

 

[Gun Geezer]

When its all said and done, you need to use the sights to aim no matter how the gun fits you when "naturally" thrown up and pointed.

I never adjust the front if its centered in the barrel or ramp, even if the rear is waaay off center, as a couple of pre-64 94's have been for me. One, the center of the peep aperture was about even with the right edge of the hammer. Oh well, thats where its sighted in, I just use it. It doesnt seem to hamper being able to hit running rabbits and things like that.

It sounds like it isnt sighted in in any event, and needs to be adjusted to hit to the sights.

No doubt it's not sighted in. I think I'm just used to having a fatter stock and a raised cheek piece. When I mount the gun, it's hard not to be too far to the right with my eye. As you said, just got to line it up. I'm just wanting it to "feel natural" when I do.

I too would prefer not to move the front sight.

I'll get it. Thanks for the input.

 

[Malamute]

Length of pull can be adjusted with a pad fairly easily, but comb height and drop isnt as easy to change. I love it when guns truly fit me, though theres going to end up being some adjustment or accomodation of the individual to the gun in cases like this. Scope sighted bolt actions often can have really nicely fitted stocks, compared to open sighted lever actions. Just messing with the gun and getting used to it may be a big part of it. If you dry fire it as part of your familarization, its best to use snap caps, lever actions have a habit of breaking firing pins if dry fired much, if you arent familiar with that particular trait.

I dont mind the blade front sights, and usually end up using a receiver peep sight on my lever guns. The trapper size guns are really nice for "carrying around" guns out in the woods.