Current Colt Revolver Design Manufacturing Techniques?

[westernrover]

I'm considering acquiring a current model King Cobra or Python.

I understand these models have a transfer bar instead of Colt's Positive Safety hammer block. Do they still have a rebounding hammer also?

I don't believe Colt runs a forge anymore. Does Colt have a vendor forge the new revolver frames?

Are the barrels cold hammer forged? or is the rifling cut with a broach or button or formed with some other method like ECM? Are the short barrels on the King Cobra MIM like S&W Model 36?

Are the barrels choke bore? What's the twist rate and is it constant?

Are the barrels crush fit into the frame? I don't believe they're pinned or sleeved.

What are they doing on the barrel face and forcing cone? 5, 8, 11 degrees?

What about chamber throats?

Overall, are they setup for cast or jacketed or somewhere between?

How is the b/c gap? Are they pretty precise or sloppy?

Does Colt use MIM in their current revolvers or are the small parts wire EDM or made some other way? Didn't Colt use sintered metal in the Trooper Mark V and then went to a better method with the old King Cobra and Anaconda? What are they doing now?

Do they use the single folded leaf spring for the hammer and the rebound or are their two springs in the action? Is a one spring design why they can't have a more positive reset without increasing the trigger weight? Is this true for just the Python or the Cobras too?

I understand the side plate holds the hand in on the Python and the hand can slip off the ratchet if the side plate is loose. Does the Cobra/King Cobra have a similar design? Maybe they just didn't have any loose side plates?

Are the front sights installed with a roll pin or a spring-loaded quick-change scheme?

I'm sure I'll think of some more questions, but if I could understand the answers to these it would be a good start.

 

[dfariswheel]

In order as far as I know.......... I'm not really as well "up" on the fine points of the current guns, being long retired.

I understand these models have a transfer bar instead of Colt's Positive Safety hammer block. Do they still have a rebounding hammer also?
The Colt's made since the Mark III series of 1969 do not have the old style rebounding hammer. With a transfer bar action it's not needed.

I don't believe Colt runs a forge anymore. Does Colt have a vendor forge the new revolver frames?
Colt hasn't run a forge probably since the 1950's at the latest. Colt has their forgings done by a nearby contractor, and they get rough forgings which Colt machines in-plant to finished frames.

Are the barrels cold hammer forged? or is the rifling cut with a broach or button or formed with some other method like ECM? Are the short barrels on the King Cobra MIM like S&W Model 36?
Unknown. The early new Cobra was made almost entirely of MIM parts, but I think this has changed. I don't think Colt used MIM barrels on anything. I don't know what rifling process they use, but it's possible/probable they use outside contractor made barrel blanks.

Are the barrels choke bore? What's the twist rate and is it constant?
No choke bore. Colt rifling is constant rate, and usually a faster rate then other makers.

Are the barrels crush fit into the frame? I don't believe they're pinned or sleeved.
Crush fit, no pins, absolutely no sleeves.

What are they doing on the barrel face and forcing cone? 5, 8, 11 degrees?
Unknown for certain.

What about chamber throats?
Unknown for certain.

Overall, are they setup for cast or jacketed or somewhere between?
Like all revolver makers Colt uses a set up that works well on any bullet, lead or jacketed.

How is the b/c gap? Are they pretty precise or sloppy?
Still pretty tight but not the old maximum of 0.004" to 0.008". Not as loose as S&W's 0.12" max, which with S&W that's a "maybe".

Does Colt use MIM in their current revolvers or are the small parts wire EDM or made some other way? Didn't Colt use sintered metal in the Trooper Mark V and then went to a better method with the old King Cobra and Anaconda? What are they doing now?
Colt uses MIM like everyone else in applications where it works. Apparently the New Python and Anaconda use machined major action parts and MIM for smaller parts.

Do they use the single folded leaf spring for the hammer and the rebound or are their two springs in the action? Is a one spring design why they can't have a more positive reset without increasing the trigger weight? Is this true for just the Python or the Cobras too?
Colt went to a new design that uses a larger loop "Vee" mainspring in all the new models. The small frame models are a little different then the larger Python and Anaconda. This is a transfer bar safety -ignition, but with the old Colt "Bank Vault" type cylinder locking.
The small frames like the Cobra and King Cobra only power the hammer with the spring, a separate trigger return spring is used.
The Python and Anaconda power both the hammer and trigger with the "Vee" spring.

I understand the side plate holds the hand in on the Python and the hand can slip off the ratchet if the side plate is loose. Does the Cobra/King Cobra have a similar design? Maybe they just didn't have any loose side plates?
Same design. Colt had problems early on because they're using a new, superiors stainless steel that screws don't torque down and stay put like the older steels. In other words, tighten a screw tight and it might not jam in place like the older steels used.
Soon after there were problems with loose side plates, Colt began using a thread locker on the screws. Problem solved.

Are the front sights installed with a roll pin or a spring-loaded quick-change scheme?
Front sights are easily replaceable, held in by a screw from the front.

 

[UncleEd]

New Colt owners need only report how well the guns shoot and
are holding up. With that the answers don't really matter if no
major problems have arisen.

 

[westernrover]

What?
Let me guess. You typed that on an Apple i-thing.

 

[someguy2800]

New Colt owners need only report how well the guns shoot and
are holding up. With that the answers don't really matter if no
major problems have arisen.

Indeed.

 

[westernrover]

Indeed.

Have you seen these grips? Ponies and medallions.

 

[Slamfire]

New Colt owners need only report how well the guns shoot and
are holding up. With that the answers don't really matter if no
major problems have arisen.

The shooting community is in the honeymoon period with these new, expensive Colts. It takes time for the blush of new love to fade, the beer goggles to fall off. Till then, it is all rainbows, unicorns, and shooting stars.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have both a new Python and new Anaconda. Both shoot fine but have not had more than a couple boxes of ammo through them.

If they both shoot trouble free, I do not care what process is used to manufacture parts. I’m a mechanical engineer and have lots if experience with all sorts of manufacturing processes.

The only fault that I have heard is with the sights. Wilson makes a replacement that most like. I bought a set to try. If I like them, I’ll get another set.

 

[westernrover]

This isn't about fault-finding. I can believe that an engineer would be satisfied with a job well done by whatever method, but I can't believe that an engineer would not be curious to know how they did it. If I'm interested in something, I want to know how they make it. I'm not trying to find a fault that isn't there. If someone scores a touchdown, is the score all that matters, or doesn't anyone want to watch the play? If someone pitches a no-hitter, do you just want to know that fact at the end, or do you want to at least follow the game on the radio even if you can't watch it?

 

[UncleEd]

The shooting community is in the honeymoon period with these new, expensive Colts. It takes time for the blush of new love to fade, the beer goggles to fall off. Till then, it is all rainbows, unicorns, and shooting stars.

You might very well be correct. Then again, it's been nearly
4 years since the Python 2020 introduction. To be clear, I"m
not a fan of the gun. But if its owners like it and it has worked
for them, that's fine and I'm glad Colt is back into revolvers.

 

[UncleEd]

Westernrover, OK it's not about finding fault. I understand and your
questions are many and technical. What's needed are answers from
Colt engineers themselves, not gun enthusiasts on a forum. The
questions open too many doors for misinformation. The best that
can be reliably hoped for on a gun forum is customer reports on
how the firearms perform.

Hopefully down the road Colt will be interviewed about its engineering
of the Python 2020 and how it sees the future for the gun/guns.

I have been most impressed by the efforts of RevolverGuy.com and its
article on "Evolutionary Improvements of S&W Revolvers." The site
has reviewed the new Python but not in the depth you seek. Perhaps
it will.

 

[Targa]

I'm considering acquiring a current model King Cobra or Python.

I can’t even begin to answer the questions you have about these Colts but I will say that I have both and enjoy them quite a bit, especially my 3” King Cobra.
The only stand out flaw for me was with the Python’s rear sight, which like previously addressed in this thread was remedied with a Wilson Combat replacement.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I'll join the chorus about the rear sight. I have a 6" Python, and less than a box of .38 Special is sufficient to start walking the windage and elevation screws out.

 

[Targa]

I'll join the chorus about the rear sight. I have a 6" Python, and less than a box of .38 Special is sufficient to start walking the windage and elevation screws out.

Which is frustrating because this is not a new problem, Colt /CZ knows they are putting a subpar item on their $1400-1500 revolvers. I guess that ultimately its our fault for continuing to buy the Pythons/Anacondas, Colt knows that we will pony up the 100 plus dollars for the fix alleviating them from doing the right thing and putting on the quality sights from the factory.

 

[UncleEd]

Colt knows that we will pony up the 100 plus dollars for the fix alleviating them from doing the right thing and putting on the quality sights from the factory.

To upgrade the sights now would be an open slap in the face of previous buyers.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

To upgrade the sights now would be an open slap in the face of previous buyers.

I don't know about that, I mean the alternative is to just continue screwing on crappy rear sights.

But I think they should offer to swap them out for anyone having issues.

If they even have a better factory rear sight to swap the bad ones for, which I am not sure they do.

 

[Jim Watson]

Just go ahead and buy one. A lot of your questions would be readily answered with gun in hand. Look at the spring layout. Measure the forcing cone and throats. Examine the parts for mold marks or tool marks. A close look down the barrel might identify ECM rifling, but it would be harder to pick out the difference between button and cut. An asymmetric shape like that would be hard to cold hammer forge.

MIM like S&W Model 36?

Say what? I never heard of a MIM barrel on a Chief or anything else.

To upgrade the sights now would be an open slap in the face of previous buyers.

Why? Not like it hasn't been done before. I have changed Accro sights to Elliason on Gold Cup and Python.

 

[UncleEd]

Why? Not like it hasn't been done before. I have changed Accro sights to Elliason on Gold Cup and Python.

So when it comes to Colt, in a biblical sense, you have turned the other cheek.

 

[dh1633pm]

In Networking there are two types of engineers. Those that must look under the hood to understand and be happy and those that merely bend them to their will. Firearms can be the same. To be satisfied with a good choice, some gotta know how it’s built (under the hood). Happy with my Colt. Didn’t ask any of those questions. Doesn’t mean someone shouldn’t.

 

[Hookeye]

I yanked the Elliason/ramp front on my old Python and went Kensight full blade rear and patridge front
And it wears rubber Hogue grips LOL

Am interested in a new Python, esp if it can have an optic put on it.

 

[Palladan44]

OP -Buy with confidence. They are great.
I have a King Cobra 3" and Anaconda 6"

I have wonders about how they will hold up to years of shooting magnums, that has yet to be determined. I thought about doing a new Colt revolver "Round Count" thread.....

 

[Mark_Mark]

Have you seen these grips? Ponies and medallions.

that’s a good color combo! Would look nice on a new Python!

they keep that grip in stock?

 

[westernrover]

I can’t even begin to answer the questions you have about these Colts but I will say that I have both and enjoy them quite a bit, especially my 3” King Cobra.
The only stand out flaw for me was with the Python’s rear sight, which like previously addressed in this thread was remedied with a Wilson Combat replacement.

What is it that you especially like about the 3" King Cobra? I'll be in the city this week and considering going to a Scheels where they have that one in stock and picking one up.

 

[Targa]

I really like the rear trench sight, the size of the gun makes it fun at the range and excellent for OWB carry, it doesn't have a key lock hole in the side of the frame and the trigger is outstanding in both double and single action. To me it is exactly what a revolver should be without any little cosmetic add ons like the Pythons vented rib for example, the relative plainness of the Cobra is just a refreshing change.
Just know that at 28 ounces, a box of full power .357 might wear you out a bit.

 

[Targa]

I had shoulder surgery two months ago so I haven't been to the range in a while but here is a pic of it from its last outing. This was a blemished model that I ordered from Buds Gun Shop for around $750. I have yet to find the blemish.