Highland Ranger
Member
In NJ its like $11 an HOUR.
Which is why you need to join a club or range if you shoot more than once a month.
customer service?
- Thread starter craig
- Start date
- Status
In NJ its like $11 an HOUR.
Which is why you need to join a club or range if you shoot more than once a month.
Black Majik
Member
Well, I tried not to judge the store owner only from checking the posts here, so I checked out his site.
In the end, my conclusion mirrors pretty much everyone else's opinion here. First thing I noticed was the cold tone of the website. "Dont waste my time". With an attitude like that, I would not even want to waste MY time at his shop.
His business practices and policies are, in my opinion absolutely rediculous.
a) in the last 16 years have bought 1 gun every 3 years equalling 6 guns total in 16 years.
OR
b) purchased 4 guns in the last year.
That would pretty much rule me out, since I don't have the funds to buy 4 guns in a year, or buying 3 guns in 16 years. You've got to be kidding me, I haven't even been shooting for 16 years!
This would absolutely deter any new potential customers. Hell... if I read that as I'm walking to the door, I'd turn around and not even bother. $100 membership to LOOK around? $50 for every half hour?
The elitist vibe I get from the site pretty much doesn't sit well with me. It's either "pay my rediculously priced membership or dont waste my time."
Then what happens when all the old farts pass away that were once loyal customers? Not only did he lose his customers but he killed any chance with potential customers. I usually wanna see local shops succeed, but I can honestly say I hope he goes out of business before 2007.
In the end, my conclusion mirrors pretty much everyone else's opinion here. First thing I noticed was the cold tone of the website. "Dont waste my time". With an attitude like that, I would not even want to waste MY time at his shop.
His business practices and policies are, in my opinion absolutely rediculous.
a) in the last 16 years have bought 1 gun every 3 years equalling 6 guns total in 16 years.
OR
b) purchased 4 guns in the last year.
That would pretty much rule me out, since I don't have the funds to buy 4 guns in a year, or buying 3 guns in 16 years. You've got to be kidding me, I haven't even been shooting for 16 years!
This would absolutely deter any new potential customers. Hell... if I read that as I'm walking to the door, I'd turn around and not even bother. $100 membership to LOOK around? $50 for every half hour?
The elitist vibe I get from the site pretty much doesn't sit well with me. It's either "pay my rediculously priced membership or dont waste my time."
Then what happens when all the old farts pass away that were once loyal customers? Not only did he lose his customers but he killed any chance with potential customers. I usually wanna see local shops succeed, but I can honestly say I hope he goes out of business before 2007.
brentwal
Member
Ask him when his "Going Out Of Business Sale" will be.
CrazyIrishman
Member
What a real piece of work! Here's a direct quote off their site minus the reopening date.
"We will be overseas March 2006 until end of July 2006, the store and Range will be closed during that time, so buy your guns now because next Spring we won't be around."
(ONE CAN ONLY HOPE!!!)
"We will be overseas March 2006 until end of July 2006, the store and Range will be closed during that time, so buy your guns now because next Spring we won't be around."
(ONE CAN ONLY HOPE!!!)
craig
Member
here's the response i got yesterday. needless to say i won't be going there anymore. this guy is really helping get people interested in shooting. ironic thing is, this is where i went to train for my ccw. p.s. i'm keeping the $1000.00 he wants to bet. gonna buy more guns/stuff, just not from him
Dear Craig
Thanks for the e-mail. Actually several hundred of our customers have already congratulated us for going to members only, want to be included, and think it was the best way to improve prices and service here. And as you have read on our web site, anyone who wants to become a member here may easily do so, if they think it is worthwhile for them and we will be working with all our customers to make sure that they are not left out.
And all but you seem to think it is a good idea to get rid of the people who are not members, and just waste our time (or as I call them looky-loos) and do not think that someone should make someone else work for three to four hours a day for free. Would you? If you would, come on by we have a job for you. Since you object to nonmembers having to pay for the advice that they receive when they are not planning on buying anything, I do not know what to tell you except I thought it was a way to service nonmembers, but I may change it so that only members, with no exceptions will be able to use our facilities, that will eliminate your grievance.
And as for our gun prices I know we try to have the best overall, and I know for an absolute fact no one else supplies as many guns to the citizenry as we do, making as little profit on them as we do. And I will bet you $1000 cash on that fact, (if you want to put your money where your mouth is.) And I have the records to prove it.
Before you compared prices you should have learned the difference between a new gun and a used one.
Sometimes, one dealer or another may have a better price than we do on a particular item, but if you compare 1,000 guns off our web site to that of any guns store in the area, it is not even close, you will see we are $50 to $150 cheaper per gun here on most major gun lines.
Since it appears you did not like the price that you paid for the guns that you bought here, you won't have to worry about purchasing anymore here. It is people with attitudes like yours that have convinced us to go to members only. I would rather deal with the 6,000 customers we have that appreciate us and let others and their neighbors go someplace else!
Sincerely
Brian DeLisle
STORE HOURS
THUR: 10-7
FRI: 10-7
SAT: 10-7
SUN: 10-5
MON: Closed
TUE: Closed except By Pre-Appointment ONLY For Group Shooting and Pickups
WED: Closed
Dear Craig
Thanks for the e-mail. Actually several hundred of our customers have already congratulated us for going to members only, want to be included, and think it was the best way to improve prices and service here. And as you have read on our web site, anyone who wants to become a member here may easily do so, if they think it is worthwhile for them and we will be working with all our customers to make sure that they are not left out.
And all but you seem to think it is a good idea to get rid of the people who are not members, and just waste our time (or as I call them looky-loos) and do not think that someone should make someone else work for three to four hours a day for free. Would you? If you would, come on by we have a job for you. Since you object to nonmembers having to pay for the advice that they receive when they are not planning on buying anything, I do not know what to tell you except I thought it was a way to service nonmembers, but I may change it so that only members, with no exceptions will be able to use our facilities, that will eliminate your grievance.
And as for our gun prices I know we try to have the best overall, and I know for an absolute fact no one else supplies as many guns to the citizenry as we do, making as little profit on them as we do. And I will bet you $1000 cash on that fact, (if you want to put your money where your mouth is.) And I have the records to prove it.
Before you compared prices you should have learned the difference between a new gun and a used one.
Sometimes, one dealer or another may have a better price than we do on a particular item, but if you compare 1,000 guns off our web site to that of any guns store in the area, it is not even close, you will see we are $50 to $150 cheaper per gun here on most major gun lines.
Since it appears you did not like the price that you paid for the guns that you bought here, you won't have to worry about purchasing anymore here. It is people with attitudes like yours that have convinced us to go to members only. I would rather deal with the 6,000 customers we have that appreciate us and let others and their neighbors go someplace else!
Sincerely
Brian DeLisle
STORE HOURS
THUR: 10-7
FRI: 10-7
SAT: 10-7
SUN: 10-5
MON: Closed
TUE: Closed except By Pre-Appointment ONLY For Group Shooting and Pickups
WED: Closed
I'm starting to like this store owner more and more.
The people who are bitching the most are the people who have no money to spend. Why cater to a customer that you KNOW will not spend what money he does have in your store?
The fact is that he is simply going members only. The membership is either cash or buy guns. Whats so hard about that? Oh, wait.. you don't have any money for membership or guns.... I forgot.
They are confusing the lower price deal... I believe that he is saying ON AVERAGE his prices are lower. And that some people are mixing used guns other places for the cost of his NEW guns. Either way, you don't have any money to buy guns... so stop bitching.
I'm sure he'll still be in business LLLOOOONNNNGGGGG after you poor folk stop complaining.
If you think the customer is always right then you need to run a business. And NO business will last if they give away thier time/effort for free. NO MATTER WHO IS IT.
Businesses survive by provideing a service... no matter how much of a niche service it is... as long as you have enough people to turn a profit you are good to go. Just like those store that have only left handed items, this is a gun store/range that is gonna deal with a type of customer that has money, buys frequently and see's the advantages of not having 'gun store experts' take up the time and efforts of the TRAINED (not wally-world or Cabela's part time $8 an hour college students) gun salesmen.
Rock on gun store dude... deal with the people who have the money, not the people who are complaining. They aren't gonna shop at your store anyway.
The people who are bitching the most are the people who have no money to spend. Why cater to a customer that you KNOW will not spend what money he does have in your store?
The fact is that he is simply going members only. The membership is either cash or buy guns. Whats so hard about that? Oh, wait.. you don't have any money for membership or guns.... I forgot.
They are confusing the lower price deal... I believe that he is saying ON AVERAGE his prices are lower. And that some people are mixing used guns other places for the cost of his NEW guns. Either way, you don't have any money to buy guns... so stop bitching.
I'm sure he'll still be in business LLLOOOONNNNGGGGG after you poor folk stop complaining.
If you think the customer is always right then you need to run a business. And NO business will last if they give away thier time/effort for free. NO MATTER WHO IS IT.
Businesses survive by provideing a service... no matter how much of a niche service it is... as long as you have enough people to turn a profit you are good to go. Just like those store that have only left handed items, this is a gun store/range that is gonna deal with a type of customer that has money, buys frequently and see's the advantages of not having 'gun store experts' take up the time and efforts of the TRAINED (not wally-world or Cabela's part time $8 an hour college students) gun salesmen.
Rock on gun store dude... deal with the people who have the money, not the people who are complaining. They aren't gonna shop at your store anyway.
Some people do walk in to a gun store with cash in hand looking for something to buy. I wouldn't pay one cent to go into any store just to look at their goods.
Imagine if a REAL retail store started charging customers for "wasting" their time...
And go to a gun store for advice? I'd rather go on THR and get free advice from many people (most of whom are probably more knowledgeable than most gun store salespeople).
Imagine if a REAL retail store started charging customers for "wasting" their time...
And go to a gun store for advice? I'd rather go on THR and get free advice from many people (most of whom are probably more knowledgeable than most gun store salespeople).
craig
Member
yellowlab.. don't be so quick to judge who has money to spend. some people actually try not to waste their money, i know i try not to. i'm not gonna pay this guy for the "priviledge" to just walk in his store and look. i'm now gonna go to the other shop in town and buy from him.
danurve
Member
Correct. For 20 clams a year I can shoot anytime I like under covered benches. Of course for the casual shooter, a daily fee of 2$ isn;t horrible. Of course the club makes more money with the skeet/trapp shooters.Highland Ranger said:
Anyhow when I was in sales, there was a saying; if you can't satisfy the customer, they'll simply go somewhere else. So what the frick why would you get bent out of shape over one shop for? Friggin go somewhere else already.
Lupinus
Member
Yellow-
If you needed to buy a new suit when you walked into the tayors if he said its gonna be fifty dollars, just for you to look around, would you stay?
How about shoes? Walk into the shoe store and just to browse and try on a few shoes they are going to charge you.
How bout the grocery store? Wal-Mart? Kitchen supply store? Bait and tackle? Car dealership? How about if Amazon.com required you to register for a fee before shopping to save on bandwith of people just web surfing?
Dealing with window shoppers and people who will look and not see what they are looking for are part of doing buisness. If you open a store common sense should dictate to you that not everyone who comes in or asks a few questions about a product will buy something before leaving, and that you can't charge someone for the prilage it is called good customer service to answer customers questions and being willing to increases your sales. In my area there is a guy who is great and helpful, little overpriced but he gives great customer service and he does a lot of buisness charging 30-40 bucks more on an XD then most other people in the area, they fly off his shelves. Not just because he is the only one with them or is the cheapist, but because if you are looking at one unless he is busy with another customer he is right there taking it out of the case for you so you can see how it feels in your hand and listing some of the features for you. And if you don't buy no harm no foul.
To charge people just for the privlige of entering your store I don't agree with and won't get him new customers anytime soon.
If you needed to buy a new suit when you walked into the tayors if he said its gonna be fifty dollars, just for you to look around, would you stay?
How about shoes? Walk into the shoe store and just to browse and try on a few shoes they are going to charge you.
How bout the grocery store? Wal-Mart? Kitchen supply store? Bait and tackle? Car dealership? How about if Amazon.com required you to register for a fee before shopping to save on bandwith of people just web surfing?
Dealing with window shoppers and people who will look and not see what they are looking for are part of doing buisness. If you open a store common sense should dictate to you that not everyone who comes in or asks a few questions about a product will buy something before leaving, and that you can't charge someone for the prilage it is called good customer service to answer customers questions and being willing to increases your sales. In my area there is a guy who is great and helpful, little overpriced but he gives great customer service and he does a lot of buisness charging 30-40 bucks more on an XD then most other people in the area, they fly off his shelves. Not just because he is the only one with them or is the cheapist, but because if you are looking at one unless he is busy with another customer he is right there taking it out of the case for you so you can see how it feels in your hand and listing some of the features for you. And if you don't buy no harm no foul.
To charge people just for the privlige of entering your store I don't agree with and won't get him new customers anytime soon.
Tejas Gunwerks
Member
Almost all night clubs charge a cover charge. Amusement Parks charge an entrance fee. Gunshows charge to get in. You accept all of those. What is the big deal? Are you really concerned if he runs his business into the dirt. It is his, to do with as he pleases. Quit whining.
Lupinus
Member
yeah but here is the thing
all those places you are paying for their service, not to shop there. At a club you are paying to party. A park to ride the rides (and some do charge by the ride, if you live in PA and have ever been to knobles you know it is rare but not extinct). Gunshows to get into an event. Costco to get into a club to buy in bulk at what is often a great deal.
If he wants to run a consulting buisness or a buisness for buying in bulk at much less then the compitition thats one thing.
And it isn't whinning, its saying the guy isn't going to do good buisness. Free market, he as the owner can do what he wants, we as the consumers can comment on it as we like.
all those places you are paying for their service, not to shop there. At a club you are paying to party. A park to ride the rides (and some do charge by the ride, if you live in PA and have ever been to knobles you know it is rare but not extinct). Gunshows to get into an event. Costco to get into a club to buy in bulk at what is often a great deal.
If he wants to run a consulting buisness or a buisness for buying in bulk at much less then the compitition thats one thing.
And it isn't whinning, its saying the guy isn't going to do good buisness. Free market, he as the owner can do what he wants, we as the consumers can comment on it as we like.
Phaetos
Member
I couldn't deal with the flashy's and sparkly, red text, purple text, blue text, black stars background, 1995 first-time website grossness that is his website. God, I wouldn't shop there just because of that horrible site.
The_Antibubba
Member
misANTHrope
Member
It really seems like the range is becoming the main attraction there. The $100 membership fee is a much better deal than any gun club around here, even when you take into account the daily shooting rates there.
Overall, I think he's got a decent idea, except for one thing, and it's a big one IMO: new customers. Unless a new customer comes in with a member as a guest, he/she's now gotta pay just to get in- seems like it'd be a big discouragement to people. On the other hand, Costco and Sam's do just fine working under the same premise.
I'd pay the fee to shop and shoot there if I thought the prices and the people were good. But how the hell would I go about finding out if that's the case?
Overall, I think he's got a decent idea, except for one thing, and it's a big one IMO: new customers. Unless a new customer comes in with a member as a guest, he/she's now gotta pay just to get in- seems like it'd be a big discouragement to people. On the other hand, Costco and Sam's do just fine working under the same premise.
I'd pay the fee to shop and shoot there if I thought the prices and the people were good. But how the hell would I go about finding out if that's the case?
Lupinus
Member
sams and costco can do it in two ways-
they are well known
and nine times out of ten you can buy things there very cheaply
this guy isn't well known and doesn't have a few throusand people to say "hey go here, you need a membership but his prices are great!"
and this guys prices probably aren't that great.
they are well known
and nine times out of ten you can buy things there very cheaply
this guy isn't well known and doesn't have a few throusand people to say "hey go here, you need a membership but his prices are great!"
and this guys prices probably aren't that great.
The Bulk Buy clubs also have guest memberships for free quite quite often. I know BJs has been putting out one month free guest membership coupons in the paper.
Also, depending on the Bulk Buy store, they do not require you to be a member just to look around. If you look around, like something, you can then get the membership and save on their lower prices.
Also, depending on the Bulk Buy store, they do not require you to be a member just to look around. If you look around, like something, you can then get the membership and save on their lower prices.
Selling guns is not a commodity business. You are selling complex devices that need maintenance. A gun is not a DVD. A DVD is dumbed down for the average person to understand and can tolerate abuse. It also does not take a knowledgable person to sell a DVD. Plus returning a DVD is not a big deal.
A gun IS a complex piece of machinery. It is NOT tolerant of abuse. And it takes training and skill to use one. It also takes a knowledgable person to sell a gun. Sure local shops *may* have experienced people behind the counter.... mostly they do not. If you are lucky enough to get a smart, outgoing, enthusiastic salesperson to work for you you keep him. A good salesperson MAKES a sale. A vast majority of people simply don't walk in and buy a gun. They will ask advice, handle a gun etc. A GOOD salesman will push the customer from 'looker' to 'buyer'... and not in the cheesy used-car salespitch way.
Now why would you want that valuable salesman wasting time with couch commando's with little money and no history of purchasing from you? Or having to endure long lectures from gun store experts when customers are waiting? Or worse, gun store experts giving bad or WRONG advice.
If you could filter them out, with a membership or a 'consult fee' (which is what is really happening... you are not paying to shop, you are paying for a consultation with what hopes to be a professional) then you productivity goes up. Sales get closed and products move.
Handing over a gun becuase Joe Blow (no offense to Mr. Blow) walks in off the street and asks to get hit paws on that $900 Kimber is NOT good business.
People pay fees for SERVICE all the time. Talk to a laywer. Nothing but information changes hands.... and that costs significantly more than what he is charging. Ditto for computer repair, taxes, doctor etc.
Since there are other revenue streams at his place of business (range, sales, repair) I'm sure that his existing members will appreciate the extra services they get. For all you wanna be/should been business owners: IT IS CHEAPER TO KEEP A CUSTOMER YOU ALREADY HAVE THAN MAKE A NEW ONE. That is rule #2 in running a business. Rule #1 is the customer is seldom right.
Check back in a year... his business will still be going.. maybe not in it current form, but it will still be there.
A gun IS a complex piece of machinery. It is NOT tolerant of abuse. And it takes training and skill to use one. It also takes a knowledgable person to sell a gun. Sure local shops *may* have experienced people behind the counter.... mostly they do not. If you are lucky enough to get a smart, outgoing, enthusiastic salesperson to work for you you keep him. A good salesperson MAKES a sale. A vast majority of people simply don't walk in and buy a gun. They will ask advice, handle a gun etc. A GOOD salesman will push the customer from 'looker' to 'buyer'... and not in the cheesy used-car salespitch way.
Now why would you want that valuable salesman wasting time with couch commando's with little money and no history of purchasing from you? Or having to endure long lectures from gun store experts when customers are waiting? Or worse, gun store experts giving bad or WRONG advice.
If you could filter them out, with a membership or a 'consult fee' (which is what is really happening... you are not paying to shop, you are paying for a consultation with what hopes to be a professional) then you productivity goes up. Sales get closed and products move.
Handing over a gun becuase Joe Blow (no offense to Mr. Blow) walks in off the street and asks to get hit paws on that $900 Kimber is NOT good business.
People pay fees for SERVICE all the time. Talk to a laywer. Nothing but information changes hands.... and that costs significantly more than what he is charging. Ditto for computer repair, taxes, doctor etc.
Since there are other revenue streams at his place of business (range, sales, repair) I'm sure that his existing members will appreciate the extra services they get. For all you wanna be/should been business owners: IT IS CHEAPER TO KEEP A CUSTOMER YOU ALREADY HAVE THAN MAKE A NEW ONE. That is rule #2 in running a business. Rule #1 is the customer is seldom right.
Check back in a year... his business will still be going.. maybe not in it current form, but it will still be there.
craig
Member
the owner of guns4u and i have exchanged a few emails. he said i misunderstood what the rules were. i said i interpreted the rules to be..
1. pay membership to look at his guns.
2. pay for advice.
3. if you don't buy from me within 5 days, you're out $50.00 if not a member
i said it might be better if he rewrote the rules to better explain what he was trying to do. he has done so. on his web site now are the better explained rules. i still don't really like them, but he can run his business as he sees fit, just as i, a consumer can choose where to spend my money.
1. pay membership to look at his guns.
2. pay for advice.
3. if you don't buy from me within 5 days, you're out $50.00 if not a member
i said it might be better if he rewrote the rules to better explain what he was trying to do. he has done so. on his web site now are the better explained rules. i still don't really like them, but he can run his business as he sees fit, just as i, a consumer can choose where to spend my money.
Lupinus
Member
so I looked.....
still basicly looks like you have to pay a hundred dollars for a membership if you want to do anything there.
still basicly looks like you have to pay a hundred dollars for a membership if you want to do anything there.
Zundfolge
Member
I expect that what will happen is that in the short term this guy is going to clean up.
His loyal customer base will be happy because they will be part of the club, he'll get a few new members via his current members.
However in the long term I think this will work against him and I bet you see him move his brick and morter store more toward the range and training and he'll sell more guns online.
He's not going to go out of business (although I expect he'll be smaller than he could be otherwise), but he is going to create a vacuum in the local market so anyone who lives around there and wants to open a traditional gun shop needs to start saving their pennies now so they can open up in about 2 years to serve the section of the market he's turning his back on.
His loyal customer base will be happy because they will be part of the club, he'll get a few new members via his current members.
However in the long term I think this will work against him and I bet you see him move his brick and morter store more toward the range and training and he'll sell more guns online.
He's not going to go out of business (although I expect he'll be smaller than he could be otherwise), but he is going to create a vacuum in the local market so anyone who lives around there and wants to open a traditional gun shop needs to start saving their pennies now so they can open up in about 2 years to serve the section of the market he's turning his back on.
craig
Member
sorry to bring up an old thread, but he's going out of business and the blame game has started.
it seems a few ingrates/malcontents have caused him to close.
if you go to guns4u.net he has a link to fsn that trys to explain why he sold out.
it seems a few ingrates/malcontents have caused him to close.
if you go to guns4u.net he has a link to fsn that trys to explain why he sold out.
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