Cut down Stevens 620 patterns. (PICS) Not happy.

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mick53

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Cut down Stevens 620 patterns. (PICS) Not happy. UPDATED

Hey,

I took out the newly cut down Stevens Model 620 this afternoon to see how it patterned and I was not very pleased.

I used Federal Power-Shok 127 1B (#1 Buckshot).

These targets measure 19" across.

In order the shots were taken at 3, 7, 10, 15 and 20 yrds and are lableled as such.

Is this as bad as I think it is? I know this was rather unscientific but can any of you guys read anything into these patterns?

Suggestions? Screw in choke? Extended gnurled choke? Poly-choke type?

I'm bummed.

Here are the pics:

3 YDS 100_2238.jpg

7 YDS 100_2240.jpg

10 YDS 100_2242.jpg

15 YDS 100_2244.jpg

20 YDS 100_2246.jpg

Thanks,

Mick
 
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Yeah, you now need to install a modified choke tube or look into some different buffered buckshot.
 
To me personally that's unacceptable. Definitely look at getting it choked.
 
A cylinder bore shotgun is a cylinder bore shotgun.

They're not for duck hunting.
 
It almost looks like the barrel was overbored before it was cut down. I would try a few different brands and sizes or buckshot before making any further alterations. If it doesnt tighten up a little have someone install a scerw in choke system.
Lots of luck
T
 
Before you go to the expense of having tubes put in it, try some other brands and sizes of buckshot.

Each shotgun barrel is a law unto itself and will pattern differently with different brands/sizes.

The first thing I'd try is a 'low recoil' load from Federal or Remington. They seem to hold tighter patterns than the full power loads, in my experience.
 
+1 on a couple of points

"A cylinder bore shotgun is a cylinder bore shotgun."

"Try some other loads."

"Merry Christmas."
 
If you're serious about extending the effective range of your gun there's a few things you can do.

You can always get screw in chokes installed,..or even a poly choke.

But it's very likely that you could tighten your pattern a bit by having the forcing cone lenghtened and switch to copper plated 00 ammo. A forcing cone job will set you back about $80.

As previously mentioned, your patterns aren't all that bad but they're not centered.

But getting your sight calibrated and using ammo that your gun likes a bit better may be all that you need to do.
 
For an "up-close-and-personal-range-inside-the-home-defensive-shotgun", those patterns are not unacceptable.

Try other brands and sizes of buckshot...the least expensive method. EVERY shotgun barrel and ammo combination is a rule unto itself.

F'rinstance...I have the 18-1/2" cylinder bore barrel on my Maverick 88. That barrel is best with Remington #4 Buck. Shooting Budd with identical barrel finds his is best with Federal #1 Buck. Mine is best with PMC brand slugs, worthless with Remington Sluggers. His barrel is a top performer with Sluggers, not so much with PMC.
 
Ok fellas,

Next trip to the range I'll bring three different loads with me. I'd really appreciate some specific load recommendations.

If it's no better or even maybe even worse, I'll consider getting some kind of choke installed but I really hate to spend the dough.

I also have to figure out why the loads all fade to the left when there's any distance involved.

Might be the barrel, might be my hold or perhaps a flinch. But whatever the hell it is, it's consistent. Any guesses?

Thanks,

Mick
 
Look into the Federal offerings of buckshot with the Flite Control wad.

Here's a THR thread with some comments from John Farnam on the results: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=304585

The Federal "Vital Shok" loads use that technology: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/buckshot.aspx

Notice that there's quite a variety of loads from No. 4 Buck on up, and at different pellet counts and velocities. You don't need a 3" shell, max pellet count, or max velocity to do the job on a human at home distances. But a nice tight pattern is a real win!
 
3 yards: dead
7 yards: dead
10 yards: dead
15 yards: dead or in serious pain
20 yards: hurting

Don't know the layout of your house and what HD distances you might be shooting, but I'd say, based on my own home, this perp is dead.

However, having said that, if YOU aren't comfortable with the pattern of your shotgun, you won't trust it to do it's job in the critical moment. So +1 on trying other ammo. As said, not every brand will pattern the same. If you try three or four different brands and don't find one you are satisfied with, then look at getting the barrel tapped for chokes.
 
Look into the Federal offerings of buckshot with the Flite Control wad.
Click to expand...

I'll second that! I patterned a bunch of buckshot years ago when I got my Pardner Pump with the cylinder bore barrel and the federals made a whole the size of a cantaloupe at 12 yards.
 
I didn't tell you this but heck it is an old gun :
Take off the barrel and clamp it in a vise, might help to wrap it with a piece of card board or heavy leather in the jaws. Don't crush anythingbut it needs to be tight. Stick a piece of 1/2" iron pipe in the barrel about 10" down the barrel. If the pipe is about 4 foot long a good 75 pound lean in the direction you want to move the pattern (down and right) should do it . Try the gun with the same load, repeat again with more pressure if necessary. I have done this a few times to old guns that I did not want to spend big $ on. Also did you put a bead on the thing when you sawed it off? If not then the impact could be moved by judgeing the hole placement and the bead height.
Another deal would be to make sure your cut was perfectly concentric and that the inside of the barrel was UNIFORMLY deburred! Tha will really move the pattern around if it was not properly done!
Sure the flight control buck holds patterns tighter, if that is what you want. I like #1 buck inside buildings and if you can get the pattern centered that would be enough for an old scatter gun IMHO.
 
Check to see if the barrel is cut square to the bore and no burrs on the crown.
 
I hacked off an old single shot Wards with a mucked up barrel and stuck the bead back on it Our 7 yard pattern is nearly identical (in size.) That's all I'd expect anyhow.
 
You always have to ask "Where did those errant shot go?" :uhoh:

Another vote for Federal Flite Control 00. It works very well in my cylinder bore guns.
 
Not as bad as I thought - here's what happened.

First, I believe I was using the bead sight incorrectly.

I was sighting down the barrel.

But I keep reading that if you're using a bead sight, you should align the bead so it appears to be sitting on top of the receiver and the barrel should not even be visible. Is this correct?

So if I were shooting as I described above, aligning the bead down the barrel, might this account for me shooting high and to the left?

Secondly, I keep reading that beginning arouind 7 yards or so, the spread of the pattern with a cylinder bore should be about 1" per yard.

I just measured those targets. At 7 yds, the pattern in 6.3" wide and 6.5" high.

At 10 yds the spread is 9.5" wide and 9.8" high.

So now it seems the patterns are what is to be expected. And if I was aiming incorrectly, that may account for the patterns being high and left.

What do you guys think?

As always, thanks,

Mick
 
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Not trying to be argumentative here, but what is the purpose of the bead if one just points at the target add disregards the bead?
 
mick53,

How you were using the bead would have you shooting high but not off to the side. Then again you could have been holding left with out realizing it due to no rear sight. The bead is really there for birdie hunting BUT it can be used to aim the shotgun for self defense uses too. Its not super accurate but it will do. However at short distances and in a fight aiming using the bead probably will be hard to do and unneeded. At 10 yards and less you should be able (with some practice) just point shoot with a shotgun and hit the target.

Honestly I don't see any real issue with the pattern you have. Yeah it spreads out quickly but if your gun is for HD that may actually be better then a tighter pattern at close range. The 7 yard shot, if centered would have gotten both lungs and probably the heart or major arteries, no one is going to be fighting though that kind of damage. Seems great for short HD distances to me.
 
Not trying to be argumentative here, but what is the purpose of the bead if one just points at the target add disregards the bead?
Click to expand...
There are several systems of sighting a shotgun, depending on whether you're wingshooting a moving target or aiming at a stationary one.

The bead is primarily an eye-catching reference point for wing-shooting. It is not placed ON the target, in fact, the eye isn't to be on the bead at all, but watching the target itself. Wingshooting is an amazing feat of eye-hand coordination that unites fixed rear of the gun (cheek weld rear aiming point) with the sweep of a cloud of shot you're trying to send just ahead of the line of motion of your target. If you're staring at the bead, you'll never hit a crossing bird.

When aiming a shotgun, as in turkey hunting, deer hunting, or presumably home defense, then you are indeed using the front sight as an aiming point, just as you would with a rifle. But you don't have a rear sight. The rear sight "effect" is provided by you always acquiring the same mounting of the gun at your shoulder, to place your eye directly over the stock and behind the receiver in precisely the same way each time. (That's all your rear rifle sight is doing, too, it just provides you a more precise way of making sure you got it right.)

If your shooting style is to be at stationary targets, and you're going to aim the gun, then you must practice the exact sight picture that puts your pattern where you want it to go. It does sound like you need to see the bead lower in your field of view, relative to the receiver, in order to hit center of mass.
 
I keep reading that beginning arouind 7 yards or so, the spread of the pattern with a cylinder bore should be about 1" per yard.
Click to expand...

That may be an adequate description of what most cylinder bore shotguns do with traditional buckshot, but it is hardly a good goal.

There's a long-standing and flawed way of thinking of using buckshot best described by the old slang terms like "street sweeper" or "trench broom." I'm going to point this gun down that hall, and everything in the hall will be in the cone of death! These days we're a little more knowledgeable than that, it seems, and most folks do dismiss the old advice that "Shucks, ya don't even have to aim it -- just point it their way and let 'er RIP!" :rolleyes:

Truth is, you don't want a vast, widely-dispersed pattern that lets you hope and pray a pellet or two on the edges of the cloud might hit the bad guy even though you weren't pointing anywhere close to him. That's not a good strategy for successfully stopping an attack, and you're COMPLETELY responsible for every OTHER pellet in the cloud which sailed on by!

Yes, you're using a shotgun. NO that doesn't give you latitude to shoot inaccurately.

Far better to hold a fairly tight pattern and put lots of pellets right (or at least near) where they will do some good. Everyone squawks loudly about "overpenetration" -- the idea that we can't allow bullets to pass THROUGH a bad guy and hurt someone else. How about sending 8-12 .33 caliber projectiles sailing right on past the target with every shot -- even if you aimed well?

That's what the more modern buckshot designs (like the Flite-Control wads) do so well. Bring the pattern back down to a tight, controllable size, so they deliver a devastating payload ON your target out to a reasonable distance.

Honestly, I find your patterns after 7 yards to be completely unacceptable. Right now your shotgun seems very effective out to spitting distance, and after that I'd MUCH rather have a handgun. 20 yards just isn't that far. To have lost pellets OFF THE PAPER at that distance is just absurd.

Get some modern buckshot loads and see if you can't make the gun perform acceptably.
 
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