Cutting Colt barrel

[DuncanSA]

I recently bought a "made in 2005" Uberti 1860 Army replica, a very nice piece which due to my own stupidity now has a problem. In brief, while patterning at the range I either short charged or did not charge one of the cylinder chambers. In due course the hammer hit the cap, only the cap fired and I assumed this was a normal misfire and carried on - in reality, a ball had been propelled into the barrel and the next shot resulted in a hell of a bang and a bulged barrel in the vicinity of the loading rod retention dovetail.

Please guys don't spend time pointing out my mistakes, I am only too well aware of them! What I need to do now is try and save this weapon, and my investment, from disaster. Don't suggest that I hand it over to a gunsmith, the few gunsmiths left in my anti-firearms legislated country are over-worked and frankly I think I can do a better job than most of them.

What I intend to do is to cut the barrel about half an inch back from the bulge, this will leave me with a 5 and a half inch "Sheriff" type barrel, I will also need to shorten the loading lever and install a new front sight. Although my workshop is more set up for wood than for metal work, I am reasonably sure that I can handle the project. In my long ago and misspent youth I worked in a machine shop and reckon I can hack this one.

Comment and advice will be most welcome. My main concern is cutting the barrel "dead square". My current thought is to mount the barrel on a slowly turning wood lathe while advancing a high speed "thin disk" angle grinder upon it.

 

[sundance44s]

I`ve cut one with a 4 inch cut off wheel ..more power than needed ..these Itilian barrels are soft ...second one I cut with a hack saw , held my right hand incheck with my left to keep from cutting too fast . Although the bulge damage may be further back than the eye can see , you`ll need to slug it and see just how far back the bulge really is . or ...buy a new barrel from VTI , they have them for about 90 bucks ..slap it on and forget it ever happened ..One nice thing about the open top colts a barrel change is as easy as a cylinder change in a remington. I have seen used barrels on Ebay .

 

[biermkr]

If you search the forum you will find a few threads on cutting back a barrel.

Good luck with the project and glad to hear you are alright.

Post pics of your progress

 

[Roswell 1847]

You can mark the barrel for cutting by running a plumbing type copper pipe tube cutter around it a couple of times, this ensures an even cut. You can cut just a hair in front of the marks left by the tube cutter and file flat using the mark as a guide. Then use a countersink to just break the edge of the cut and I've found that the round grinding cheeries ,if thats the proper term, turned with a hand cranked drill make a very nice crown.

I always cut the dovetail for the lever latch by hand. Drill the hole for the latch spring deeper before you cut the lever. Check to be sure the original hole is drilled straight first otherwise it can end up cutting through the side of the lever.

No reason you can't get a replacement barrel later on if you wish. But I like to get messed up guns and excercise my imagination.
A cutdown Army model with the grip reshaped as a birdshead might look good and make a decent trapper type for finishing off wounded game quickly.

My little brass framed .44 belly gun with 3 inch barrel shoots a lot better than I thought it would.
The barrel of that gun was freebored for close to five inches and had lines of holes drilled in the top and sides like a muzzle break. I have no idea why. Since the gun was a freeby I let my imagination go to work, plus the grip that was on it was closer to the Colt Navy grip than the undersized grip that came with my 1851. I switched them out and the undersized grip suits the snubnosed .44 perfectly.

PS
I've seen antiques with missing front sights replaced with a half a coin silver soldered in place. A Mexican coin with part of the eagle and snake design still showing would add character.

 

[DuncanSA]

Thanks for the comments and tips. Roswell, can you please let me have information on how you cut dovetails - I have been reading up on it and will practice on the barrel off-cut before attempting it on my new 5.5 inch barrel!

 

[Vermonter]

Roswell, do you have any pics of that belly gun? Does it still have a good amount of power with only a 3" barrel?

 

[biermkr]

Wheeler Engineering sells a dovetail jig for just such an emergency:
http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/wheeler-dovetail-cutting-fixture.html

 

[flibuste]

hello Duncan,

In fact italian steel is very very soft and when working on nonhardened parts (like barrel) work can be done easily by hand with minimum tool as you will see.
When working on hardened part (hammer or loading lever for instance) you have to be careful because it takes a lot of energy to cut it at first but when the hardened surface has been broken (and you do not notice it), the same energy will take away much more material than previously and it is not rare to go to far. So the the rule is to stop and watch very often and not to be in a hurry...

Cutting the barrel square is not difficult on a 1860 because the barrel is not thick and you can grind it on a wheel after easily. As for the crown, you can use a dremel. It is easy and accuracy will be good.

As for the dovetail all you need is some small triangular files and practice. I replaced the sight of my 1860 with a rem 1858 dovetailed sight because I am not good at soldering.

Basically the barrel is put in a wise, and the first strokes are done with a hand saw (because easier) and after with a triangular file. What is important is to check that you are perpendicular to barrel axis and really on top of the barrel : stop often and look carefully from the front or the rear (like aiming).At the end I would recommend one stroke of the file and one stop to look and check : take your time !!!!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=321057

http://poudrenoire.forumactif.com/revolvers-a-percussion-f6/kit-colt-1860-euroarmes-t11132.htm

You will have the piece of barrel to train : you can practice 5 or 6 dovetail in it, squaring on a grinder and crowning, and eventually become an expert !!!

This is a real opportunity to practice some gunsmithing (I will not say that you were lucky but ....)

And in the end if you ruin everything, you have the option to by a new barrel.............

Have fun

 

[Roswell 1847]

Roswell, can you please let me have information on how you cut dovetails - I have been reading up on it and will practice on the barrel off-cut before attempting it on my new 5.5 inch barrel!

Best I can say is that I first mark the position of the dovetail using the pint of a needle file then put the barrel in a padded vise and use the narrow side of a bastard file to make a preliminary cut. check as you go to avoid cutting too deep.
A straight edge laid in the cut and viewed looking down the barrel to be sure the cut remains flat and horizontal.
I generally eyeball all my work so figuring out the wording of detailed instructions would be impossible.
Filibuste has given good advice in clearer terms than I could.
Practice Practice Practice.

Roswell, do you have any pics of that belly gun? Does it still have a good amount of power with only a 3" barrel?

I don't think I have any photos of that gun, and I just found that the batteries had burst in my old polaroid.
I'll have to get a new still camera soon. I haven't tried pulling screen caps from my mini DV yet.

Heres an attempt by just laying the bellygun on the scanner
http://hillbilly.diinoweb.com/files/44 bellygun.jpg

The Belly gun is no world beater but probably has about the same power level as a light ,38 wadcutter target load. Firing at some thick steel plates the Balls flattened impressively and that requires a fair amount of power.
My guess is that barrel length has less effect on velocity loss than in a modern smokeless cartridge gun, especially in the larger bore sizes since theres more available bore capacity per inch for complete burning of the charge.
The Powder charge i use for the .44 belly gun is the same as I use for the .36, about 24.5 grains if I remember correctly the weight of a full .38 special case used as a dipper. Any more would probably be a waste of powder.

And in the end if you ruin everything, you have the option to by a new barrel.............

Or keep trying till it looks like a Porter Rockwell Mormon Angel pocket gun.

 

[sundance44s]

I was lucky before I tried to cut down a barrel and file in the sight dovetail ..I was haveing a custom muzzle loader rifle built for my wife ..when the builder was ready to cut the dovetails he had us come to his shop and placed the rear sight on the barrel for a good fit to the wife`s eye ..we stayed and I watched him cut the dove tail and it took him all of 10 mins. I was impressed he made it look so easy ..I went home and cut the barrel down on one of my Remmies and cut the dovetail for the front sight myself ..it took me an hour ..But because I had watched it done , I knew I could do it . without ever seeing some one do this ..it would be tough .... I`m wanting to do another one now ...but I keep holding off because I haven`t done one in over a year now and ..I just keep putting it off ..Cutting the barrel off is the easy part ..it cleans up easy if you make a mistake ..cut too deep in the dove tail ..and thats a whole different story . It would be good if you had someone thats done one to show you the way ...they could make it look so easy .

 

[DuncanSA]

Thanks for all the advice - its a challenge but I will take things slowly and hope for a professional result. Here in distant Cape Town I do not have the easy alternatives of buying a new barrel or dovetail jig etc. by overnight mail.

I am sure that back in the days of the Civil War, and for years thereafter, shortening a bulged barrel and getting the weapon back into circulation was not uncommon. There were then many gunsmiths who could have sorted out my problem in a half-hour with hand tools in a wagon workshop.

Civilisation having progressed, we now often have to "re-invent the wheel"!

 

[Pancho]

I'm thinking of dovetailing in a taller front sight on my 1862 Colt Police 36 cal. Is there enough wall thickness to the 36 cal. barrel to do this? I noticed that filbuste was able to do it on a shortened barrel 1860 and from the pictures it doesn't look like the shortened barrel is any wider, meaning thicker wall, at the point of placement.

 

[DuncanSA]

Success! (and some heritical thoughts)

I successfully cut the barrel of my 1860 Uberti Colt replica back to about 5.5 inches and will post the pics when I figure out how to do so! I spun the barrel on a woodturning lath at about 250 rpm and made the cut with a braced angle grinder with a thin-cut disk. Finished off the barrel end at higher revs using files, and crowned barrel with mounted stones to give a nice finish.

This is where heretical thoughts come in. Looking at the 2 pieces of barrel, I tried to project the firing sequence had I not cut out the bulge (OK, a weakened barrel wall is not a good idea but lets disregard this). What I think would have happened is that the ball would have started its journey with the pressure of combustion gasses behind it and gone up the rifled barrel until it came to the bulge. Here there would have been a gas "blow by" but the projectile would then have engaged the rifling at what was left of the barrel and continued on, with what accuracy and velocity one can only speculate.

The question that intrigues me is why do we rifle our barrels full-length? Spinning projectiles are obviously more stable and accurate, but what good does imparting spin to a bullet from start achieve - why not start it out "smooth bore" and rifle maybe only the last 6 inches of the bore to spin it? It may be that we still live with old manufacturing techniques when your barrel was either smooth or rifled. It all boils down no doubt to cost effectivness, but is a thought forum members might like to explore

 

[Roswell 1847]

why not start it out "smooth bore" and rifle maybe only the last 6 inches of the bore to spin it? It may be that we still live with old manufacturing techniques when your barrel was either smooth or rifled. It all boils down no doubt to cost effectivness, but is a thought forum members might like to explore

The "Paradox Bore" shot and slug guns favored by african hunters for many years in the 19th century did just as you suggest with mixed results.

When the bullet has already achieved a respectable velocity and meets a sudden resistence like the lands engraving the slug a pressure peak can result greater than the prescribed chamber pressure and at a waeker section of the barrel.
It works well enough for shotgun pressure ranges but not for high power rifle pressures.

Progressive rifling starts out as straight grooves often the bore is relieved at this point so the lands are not as high, though groove depth is the same.
This reduces engraving resistence and eases pressures near the breech. The projectile is less distorted this way.
If I'm not mistaken original Remington revolvers used a progressive gain twist.

Such barrels have been available from custom barrel makers and even as blanks for making your own barrel.
Its not much if any more expensive to make a gain twist barrel but introduces more complexity in establishing the best twist for stabilising a certain weight of projectile at a certain velocity.

Actually bores with rifling that doesn't vary throughout are not a new thing but the Paradox bore and rifled choke inserts are not new either.


PS
I've seen many .22 rifles with bulged or ringed barrels that shot no worse than before.
Usually the ring is much shorter than the bearing surface of the bullet, so effect is minimal.

 

[DuncanSA]

Interesting stuff Roswell. I had read of "paradox" bores but not understood why they were abandoned. Obviously it was a matter of reaching peak pressure at a weak point of the barrel.