Cylinder rotation issue

[skeeterfogger]

Post a pix of the back of the cylinder

 

[skeeterfogger]

Found this in an archive.

There are a couple ways to do it, more or less the hand to ratchet contact has to fit so the cylinder is brought around to alignment and locks a little before the hammer reaches full cock, but does not bind or build tension when the hammer reaches full cock. In either case, I would get a couple spare hands, they are cheap, and the spring breaks often. First option is to fit it to the original cylinder to make sure there is no wear, and it is not loose, this will keep you from fitting a cylinder to a hand that doesn't fit the original BP cylinder well, then file down the flats on the ratchet of the new cylinder one at a time, preserving the original angle, and checking that they lock up well, then touch up the bluing, this is the real method for fitting a cylinder. This method gives you the ability to swap cylinders quickly and easily to use both BP and cartridges. The other option, if you either don't intend to use the BP cylinder, or don't want to file it is to fit and mark a separate hand for use with the cartridge conversion, then swap the hands in addition to the cylinders, more tedious, and not the method I would use, but it would work. Now there are some conversions that change the number of charge holes, usually from 6 to 5, these may be better suited to the second method if the cylinder is way off when test fitting it with a hand fit to the original cylinder, being you may have to take off a ton of metal to get it to work, the instructions should tell you if you will need to use a modified hand.





You need to look at the original cylinder and hand to get an idea of the shape that it needs to be, and where there needs to be a chamfer along with the protrusion, measuring it with calipers can help determine how much to file, keeping in mind it is much easier to take metal off than put it back on.

Couldn't get pix to paste so here's the link.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=38630&ved=2ahUKEwj4vJ6kquLpAhWeJDQIHYl6CgMQFjAGegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0pNlW36lNnDle5B1P7A9gf

If everything works with original cylinder then fit the new cylinder.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

2 additional thoughts, is the hand hitting and binding on the arbor, and check the inner channel where the hand spring rides for any rough areas that could cause binding.

 

[tembotusk]

Skeeterfogger, very informative post from the archives. I tested a shorter hand last night and found it worked better, but the rotation fell short on the timing. I have ordered a couple of new hands so I can start fresh. The hands I'm currently working with have been battered from all the fitting I have been doing. I'm sure the issue is with the hand length and shape. I will however read deeper into the post about shaping the ratchet on the cylinder.



Jackrabbit, I have not found any binding issues with the inner channel. I have cleared any casting debris and high points. The arbor has no rub marks on it from the hand.

 

[robhof]

Skeeterfogger, the layout fluid on the back of the cylinder was inconclusive. I could not tell where the hand was touching.


(I've made more changes to the video settings. Frustrating as it works perfectly from my computer.)

I do believe if this done in a specific area, your base plate may be contacting the frame slot, mark where it sticks, and look for rubbing opposite that area on the outside of the base plate! Bought a spare cylinder for my 1849 and lined up great, but rubbed in one spot making rotation hard in that spot, I polished the rubbing spot till it rotated freely, Italian copies aren't necessarily true round!

 

[skeeterfogger]

Skeeterfogger, very informative post from the archives. I tested a shorter hand last night and found it worked better, but the rotation fell short on the timing. I have ordered a couple of new hands so I can start fresh. The hands I'm currently working with have been battered from all the fitting I have been doing. I'm sure the issue is with the hand length and shape. I will however read deeper into the post about shaping the ratchet on the cylinder.



Jackrabbit, I have not found any binding issues with the inner channel. I have cleared any casting debris and high points. The arbor has no rub marks on it from the hand.

Did the cylinder start turning immediately at bolt unlock? If you can get that to happen even if it gets stiff at or just before bolt lock then just removing very small amount from hand at a time should get the timing right.
You might try hammering the end of the old hand you tried to make it longer and see if it will work. If it does then you have something that can be measured.

 

[tembotusk]

I've been working on the hand. Slowly removing small amounts of material at a time and testing. The hammer will now turn the cylinder most of the time, but still hangs up at times. I feel if I take more off the end of the hand the cylinder will no longer go into battery.

I have ordered a new set of hands from Taylor, but they are out of stock until they get their Italy shipment in a few weeks.

 

[skeeterfogger]

I've been working on the hand. Slowly removing small amounts of material at a time and testing. The hammer will now turn the cylinder most of the time, but still hangs up at times. I feel if I take more off the end of the hand the cylinder will no longer go into battery.

I have ordered a new set of hands from Taylor, but they are out of stock until they get their Italy shipment in a few weeks.

You'll get there. Keep in mind that if all worked right with the original cylinder that you may have to tweek the new cylinder.

 

[tembotusk]

I wanted to add something I have found while working on this R&D cylinder rotation issue.

I tested the original Black Powder cylinder in the pistol and it rotated with no problem. If you look at the photo below; On the left is the original black powder cylinder and on the right is the R&D cylinder. I noticed the lower section of the ratchet on the R&D cylinder is not cut as deep as the BP cylinder. Measuring confirmed they are not the same. I think the hand is wedging itself on the R&D ratchet when cocking the hammer. Thoughts???

 

[skeeterfogger]

Get out the dremel and trim them a little at a time till it works.

 

[tembotusk]

Get out the dremel and trim them a little at a time till it works.

OK ... I was hoping for a more precise way of doing that! I will try with one of my smaller files.

 

[skeeterfogger]

Well without a mill it's nip and check. You can make a gage from the working cylinder and just take your time.

 

[skeeterfogger]

I wanted to add something I have found while working on this R&D cylinder rotation issue.

I tested the original Black Powder cylinder in the pistol and it rotated with no problem. If you look at the photo below; On the left is the original black powder cylinder and on the right is the R&D cylinder. I noticed the lower section of the ratchet on the R&D cylinder is not cut as deep as the BP cylinder. Measuring confirmed they are not the same. I think the hand is wedging itself on the R&D ratchet when cocking the hammer. Thoughts???

View attachment 923033

How is your project going?

 

[tembotusk]

How is your project going?

Busy work week and not much time to dedicate yet. I will post up once I work on the ratchet.

 

[damoc]

Ive been playing with this and got some rotation without first turning but now I am not getting correct indexing?