CZ 550 in 30-06 loads?

[Namibhunter]

Good day Gents and Ladies ( if there are any)

I recently bought a lovely 30-06 CZ 550. not sure which model( lux,etc), and I love the rifle. bought it with a Leopold VX 2 scope which i replace with a Redfield revenge 6x18x50. i just cannot seem to get the rifle to group consistently smaller that 1/2" at 100yards.
I use Sellor and Belliotte Cases as well as primers. The powder of choice is S365 which as close to H4350 ( we only get Somchem powder in this neck of the woods) and have tried Sierra prohunter 180g, Nosler partition 168g Nosler competition 168 and I just bought Sierra Gameking 180g.
I know that each rifle has its own formula for the perfect load, however I would like some guidelines and load data from others with the same rifle.
attached are two picture of shots taken when I just got the rifle with loads I developed myself, but i have not been able to replicate it ever since.

For the record, I am not new to handloading and have all the basics covered with regard to safety, and what not to do.

Kind regards
Namib Hunter

 

[C-grunt]

Ummmmm that's really good shooting. Not seeing your problem here.

 

[carsten1911]

Stock rifle...

...I bet there are a zillion of people out there who really wish to have your "problem"...at leat if my understanding is right:

You are using a unmodified, out-of-the-box rifle with a budget scope and getting 1/2 MOA accuracy?

Carsten

 

[AJumbo]

^^^^ Agreed, thanks for posting your load! Maybe I'll see if using it can get my '06 to quit spraying its typical 1 MOA all over the range.

 

[Jim Watson]

i just cannot seem to get the rifle to group consistently smaller that 1/2" at 100yards.

I don't think you have a problem, you are bragging.

 

[Pete D.]

Kidding

i just cannot seem to get the rifle to group consistently smaller that 1/2" at 100yards.

You are kidding, yes?
If you are looking for better than that, you may be sorely disappointed. That grouping is very possibly the limit of accuracy for the scope, load and rifle that you have.
Nice groups...really.
Pete

PS - How much S365 are you dropping? I expect 54 to 58 grains depending on the bullet.

 

[Namibhunter]

Hi Gents
I am honestly not bragging. The above groups were done once and I have not been able to replicate them again. The best I get is shown on the attached pic. I am sure all of you would agree that if you get a group like in the first pics than anything worse will not do.
I know the attached group also good, but if you take in consider I hunt between 50yards and 300 yards, you will agree that the group opens up a lot.
the only variable that is actually different between the first group and ht elast group is the primer. first was done with CCi 250 Large rifle magnum primers while the last one are S&B primers. Do the primers really make such a big difference.
The reason for switching primers is availability. CCI are extremely scares in Namibia.

rgds
Namib Hunter

 

[Namibhunter]

Hi Pete

My current load on the 168g Nosler match bullets is 54.8g. If I recall correctly the 180g was 52.3g, however I will be redoing the whole load exercise with the 180 Sierra Gamekings. I know its a waste, however I would rather waste a few shots than not getting the best out of rifle.
Just for laughs, my father shot this below 3 shot group at 100 yards with is 30 year old .308 Musgrave rifle.

rgds
Namib Hunter

 

[Namibhunter]

Yes Carsten1911
Stock Standard CZ550 30-06. I would recommend it to anyone.

 

[MrBorland]

i just cannot seem to get the rifle to group consistently smaller that 1/2" at 100yards.

Your post is a bit confusing. On one hand, if you're asking how to consistently improve 0.5MOA, others are telling you that's a tall order for a factory rifle...

attached are two picture of shots taken when I just got the rifle with loads I developed myself, but i have not been able to replicate it ever since.

The above groups were done once and I have not been able to replicate them again.

...OTOH, it seems your concern is that your 0.5MOA is no longer 0.5MOA.

I'll just point out that a couple of 0.5MOA groups doesn't mean your rifle or load is a 0.5MOA rifle/load. The number of groups you shot to determine this is just way too small. Chances are, you just happened to get a pair of really good groups, but what the rifle & ammo can consistently be counted on to deliver is bigger than 0.5MOA, which you're now seeing as you shoot more.

 

[CB900F]

Namibhunter;

Yes, primers can make that much difference. There are some tricks to try to compensate for the difference however. Sometimes altering the OAL will return the accuracy to the level you wish. Also, considering your location, bedding or other wood/metal contact may have changed due to heat & humidity issues. This would be a particular concern if the gun is a fullstock.

Speaking of which, does the gun have a European hogback type stock? Is the stock a Mannlicher type? Or, perhaps, is the comb a touch higher & straight, ie., an American style for scoping? Then again, there are CZ configurations that we don't see too often here in America, such as the Batteau.

900F

 

[Art Eatman]

The Eatman family experience with the '06 goes back to the 1920s. I started in in 1950. A fair number of friends also used the '06.

As a generality, any '06 sporter which reliably groups inside of an inch at 100 yards is doing quite well. It takes a fair amount of "tweaking" to consistently get down below 3/4". Loads, bedding, all that stuff.

I've had the occasional 0.4/0.5 MOA group, but not all that often.

 

[Namibhunter]

Thank you MrBorland
You are correct. The small group happenned one day and never again, I came close but not to that standard. I am busy working on loads at the moment and will be using cci primers again. ( will load the same load with cci and S&B primers) and will post my results when done.
900f- I haven't a clue what stock style I have. I will take a picture and post it as well. I think it may be the American style. I will get back to you on that one.

rgds
Namib Hunter

 

[Namibhunter]

Good day Gents
No new load results yet as I need to replace all of my Brass( safety concerns) I do however have the pictures that i promised of the rifle. hopefully someone can tell me which CZ550 it is.
Please see attached pics and advise.

rgds
NamibHunter

 

[Bart B.]

Back in the day when the .30-06 was the only cartridge used in most high power rifle competition in the USA, best accuracy was attained in commercial match rifles (Winchester 54 & 70 and Remington 40X) as well as those rebuilt on regular M1903 military actions and the M1 Garand with new cases. That's because none of them had their bolt faces squared up with the barrel's bore/chamber axis. Fired case heads were more out of square than when new and that caused the barrel's muzzle axis to wiggle more in different directions as the bullet left depending on where the case head slammed against the bolt face somewhere around its outer perimeter. Have your bolt face squared up to minimize this problem.

Best accuracy in 100 yard tests properly conducted would have 5-shot groups averaging about 1/2 inch. A few would be down in the 1/4 inch range but others sometimes almost 1 inch. 40% of the groups would be about average, 30% a little bigger or smaller, 20% a lot smaller or bigger and 10% at the extremes. Remember this when you shoot a really big group as well as a very small one.

It's a statistical fact that the smallest groups are fired when one of two things happen. One's were everything is perfect; all the variables are as close to zero as possible. The other's when all those variables of different amounts tend to cancel each other out in different directions. If the variables all tend to add up in all directions, groups are the biggest. Therefore, I suggest you concentrate in making the biggest groups smaller. That'll increase the odds of making the little ones smaller. This is why the benchrest records for a single 5- or 10-shot group at 100 yards are down in the .010" or smaller range, but the aggregates for several of those groups has an average group size of around .200" with a few groups at .300" or larger.

Some things to consider.....

Full length sized cases produce best accuracy when reloaded. Set the die in the press so the fired case shoulder is set back no more than .002", otherwise the case will stretch too much in its body when fired and that'll end up making the case head more out of square.

Use a special sizing die without an expander ball so the case necks will be straighter on the case shoulder better centering the bullet in the chamber. A Redding or RCBS full bushing die with a bushing .002" smaller in diameter than that of a loaded round's neck; these are popular with competitive shooters. Properly done with good cases, one can get 30 or more reloads per .30-06 case with maximum loads.

If your rifle tends to shoot bullets to a different place as the barrel heats up, have a competent 'smith face the receiver square with the barrel tenon thread axis then shim it so the barrel will clock in correctly to maintain headspace. Most commercial rifles string shots away from the point of aim when their barrels get hot as their receiver's are mass produced and none are perfectly squared up where the barrel fits; a critical issue if you're going to shoot more than 3 shots in a string. This was a standard practice on those wonderful Musgrave actions from South Africa; I checked out several when I shot matches near Bloomfontein, OFS.

 

[CB900F]

Namibhunter;

From your supplied pictures it would appear that the gun is of the "American" style. You should certainly check the fit of the barrel in the forestock to see that it is free-floated correctly, but as Bart said, taking the gun in to have the action blueprinted will probably do more for accuracy in the long run. However, I do realize that that may not be practical in your case. Or perhaps not even necessary given your accuracy needs. Of course we all want the gun we're shooting to be as accurate as is practical, but maximum accuracy needs frequently interfere with hunting practicality. Only you can answer the question if it's good enough now for your situation.

900F

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

The groups you are positing are very good, but you have vertical stringing. That can be caused by pressure on your barrel, your powder charge could need ever so slight tweaking, a primer change can do that, and having a different hold on the stock to your shoulder can cause that also.

For a factory barreled rifle to be consistently .5 MOA is a rare find and should be cherished forever...but on the same token the shooter must be up to the task everytime you pull the trigger and the load must be as consistent as possible.

 

[chris in va]

Best I can tell you have what's called the CZ 550 Standard, with the straight stock and iron sights.

 

[Bart B.]

For what it's worth, if you check out what the most accurate benchrest rifles have for accuracy through 300 yards, the record holder for 150 shots with 10 in each group, five groups at each range, they shoot extreme spreads for the largest groups of about 3/10 MOA at 100, 4/10 at 200 and 5/10 MOA at 300 yards.

Getting even close to that with a commercial rifle is indeed a task.

 

[Namibhunter]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I will be on the lookout for the Redding full size die( bushing die). unfortunately, over here we don't get them one by one. you have to buy the set, so will like sell the set I have and and buy the other one.
there is not much I can physically have done to the rifle as the nearest gunsmith is 400km away from where i live so will just work on the loads and make sure that i have the best equipment available.
I purchased 100 new Norma cases and will be doing test with the following items, just to see what the difference between variables are.
First loads will be:
CCI 250primers
Norma cases
S365 powder
168 nosler competion bullets
180 Sierra game king bullets( could not get match bullets, but not concerned as i will use these for hunting.

Second test will be:
S&B primers
Norma cases
S365 powder
168 nosler match bullets
180 sierra game king bullets.

unfortunately, I am not spoilt for choice with what i can use, due to import limitations and pricing. I have tried to get some items off of ebay, but most all gun related items may not be shipped to Namibia, which sucks. In order for a gunshop to order the items for me, it will be too expensive. if you have to compare prices, S&B primers in the US( according to what i have read on the forum) is around USD 20-00 for 1000. while in Namibia its about USD 90-00 per 1000.

Thanks for the advise gents

 

[Namibhunter]

Good day Gents
finally got around to doing the load test. we had some crappy weather so had to wait for that to clear up. attached is the newest best group. Got it from the S365, Sierra 180gr Gameking with Norma cases and S&B primers. Not too bad. Shot at 100m. 1st & 2nd shot is close to each other and 3rd shot is a bit off.
Going hunting in the next few weeks, so I am not going to mess with anything until. Just need to zero the scope on 50m then should be good to go.
Just a side note, the cases have never been through my rifle before( they are brand spanking new). I will be loading 20 more rounds for the hunt and will then complete my experiment afterwards.
It will be interesting to see what difference it will make when the cases are full sized and neck sized only. might just do that this week-end.
Also, for anyone wondering why there is so much stickers and masking tape on the target, well, its my contribution to saving the trees and all that.

rgds
Namibhunter

 

[Bart B.]

You may or may not see any difference between neck only and full length sized cases.

Full length sized cases has produced the best accuracy for decades. Just size cases enough so they fit easily into the chamber. With the die set in the press about .005" (.2 mm) above an empty shellholder, that might be about right. If not, screw the die down twisting it about 10 degrees then try again. That'll change its height about .002" (.05 mm).

 

[Namibhunter]

Hi Bart

I am on the lookout for a die that you can adjust how much you want to full size. unfortunately, as mentioned in my previous post, availability in Namibia is a bit poor. I have to search the internet to find a place that sells it cross border and then i have to have it shipped. I have been trying to get hold of a Redding die on e-bay without success. Before I check in South Africa, I first want to see if I can get it from abroad, because funny enough, even with transport it will be cheaper to have it shipped from the US. I also do not want to ask someone on the forum to buy one for me and ship it down via FEDEX or DHL because of trust issues. If there is someone who would be so kind as to get prices for me from the US and allow me to remit the funds into his/her account to purchase the item it would be great.But, I'll let you know on my progress. Scratch the RSA bit, I just did a check and they only have normal full size dies. Might just have to convice the wife to go on holiday in the US and then to go have a looksee. that will probably the most expensive die in the world

 

[Namibhunter]

Also, anyone knows where i can get hold of Winchester failsafe in 30-06. Friend of mine owns a gunshop and might be able to import it.
and if anyone is wondering, the attached pic is what my hunting expedition is all about. I did not shoot this beauty, a friend sent me the pic. just ignore the camera angle as it makes it look bigger than it actually is, but they can grow to weigh 1000kg. Its a ELAND by the way. if not mistaken its classified as the biggest antelope species inn the world.

 

[dvdcrr]

A heck of a factory load in 30-06 is that M1 Garand match load. That stuff shoots VERY well.