CZ 75 vs Beretta 92

[Beentown]

To the OP. From how you speak, I think some good training is in order. Not just on shooting, on all legal, and judgmental aspects of carrying a gun and when to use it, and the justifications and ramifications of doing so.

I am not trying to slam you, and I would give that advice to any person that owns a gun for self defense.

Yep...

 

[Jsg81]

I have had both and honestly as others have said you won't go wrong with either option. I found both to be accurate and reliable.

That being said I sold the 92 and the CZ was stolen out of my house. I will replace the CZ one of these days as for me it just felt better. I also would pass up a good deal on a 92 if it came up.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Since I am a civilian and I avoid those people like the plague, I don't plan on needing a cocked and locked gun 24/7. In my car, I can just speed away or use the car as a much better weapon. At home I have a shotgun, so pistols are irrelevant. When I go to the grocery store I doubt I'll be getting jumped at the dairy products. I think you see my point. If I was a cop, I would carry cocked and locked because they get paid to deal with people that I want to be no where near, but as a civilian I highly doubt that it's worth the possible safety risk. To each their own. That's how I feel and no amount of posts on a forum is going to change my mind. Safety or not I'm not having a pistol pointing at my fellas with a bullet in the chamber. I still challenge anyone to find someone on here that's had their life saved by carrying cocked and locked. Maybe then I'll feel differently. I appreciate everyone's concern for my safety though.

I don't see your point. You can avoid "those people" like the plague, but they won't always avoid you.

Cops are not often ambushed or attacked by surprise (although it does happen); cops are generally CALLED to a problem situation and they generally know that things are going sour or have already soured. Most civilians, on the other hand are generally caught by surprise when lethal force is appropriate -- whether in a mall parking lot, while walking down the street, or during a home invasion. The attack may not come in the frozen food section of the store, but it may happen near the cash register or pharmacy, or as you walk from the store to the car, arms full of groceries, or while pushing a cart.

Most cops can't carry cocked and locked -- their weapons don't allow it. I don't know of any cops who don't carry with a round chambered. Many cops are less familiar with their firearms than the civilians who participate here. A lot of LEOs consider their firearm as one of many tools available to them -- along with mace, various non-lethal weapons, and stun guns. Some also have good skills in subduing opponents. Their handguns are not the FIRST tool used when things start to veer toward madness. When you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail; they have many tools in addition to their "hammer." But, when they finally reach the point where using lethal force seems necessary, they sure don't wont to worry about getting a round chambered...

You seem to feel that you will always have time to act -- to avoid a potentially risky situations, to run away, to drive away, to get out of Dodge. Let us hope that is the case for you. But, that is often not the case. (If it were true, I don't know why you'd even bother to carry a weapon?)

Situational awareness is a key, but even then things unexpected can happen. I had this happen to me, recently, when I walked out of a drug store headed for my car in our very quiet neighborhood, less than a quarter mile from my home: a very belligerent drunk was holding forth and threatening others in the parking lot. I couldn't see him or hear him until I was out the door. The only things I was "carrying" at the time was a package of medications from the pharmacy and a cell phone. Luckily, the cell phone was enough. Had he been brandishing a knife, however, I doubt the cell phone -- used to call the police -- would have offered much comfort.

While I might agree that cocked-and-locked isn't the only way to carry a weapon, not having the weapon ready to fire the instant a threat is upon you seems silly, if not reckless. It's very hard to rack a slide and chamber a round while using your other hand to keep a person from pummeling you, trying to stab you with a knife, or while you're trying to push a companion out of the danger zone. There are a lot of ways to carry a weapon so that your "fellas" aren't threatened -- and not having the barrel in proximity to your groin is a good first step. But, the best thing you can do is to just keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you're ready to fire the weapon. Most guns have a firing pin block that won't let the weapon fire (if dropped, slammed, etc.) unless the trigger is pulled fully to the rear, and a good holster will keep your finger out of the trigger guard until the gun is clear of the holster.

Carrying a weapon with a round NOT in the chamber, as you seem to advocate, seems silly and may leave you defenseless. (The Israelis taught that style of carry for a number of years, but most of the folks doing that were also well-trained in hand-to-hand combat, and were hardly defenseless if their weapon wasn't ready.) I wonder whether you will always have the time, the presence of mind, or the dexterity to ready your weapon properly when the stuff hits the fan.

I think things are much more "grey" than the clear, distinct black and white image you seem to have of things in your world view. One thing does seem clear: you're arguably more concerned about your "fellas" than your life or the lives of those who might be with you or around you.


.

 

[bannockburn]

I would go with the CZ 75 for a better fit to hand size and better overall ergonomics compared to a Beretta 92FS.

 

[Jessie James 58]

I love my CZ pistols, they feel like part of my hand, I have never had a problem with failure to fire or eject, even using reloads. Years ago I had a 92, it was a good gun again no failure to fire or eject, but it just did not "feel right", so it went to another good home.

I have shot guns for many, many years, I prefer the cocked and locked method of the 1911 and CZ pistols, If I need to draw and fire accurately, I am more accurate with the single action trigger pull.
Plus in over 45 years of using pistols, I have never had an accidental discharge by dropping the hammer on a live round.

 

[Furncliff]

One thing the CZ75/85's can do that the Beretta can't (as far as I know).


Change to .22LR in 15 seconds.

My conversion kit gets used a lot.

 

[Satasaurus]

@ Walt - I see what you're saying and I really appreciate your well thought out response. Funny you should say that's what Israelis taught because I'm a Jew(gasp, waiting for thread to get deleted now...) and I had no idea. There's just something about having a bullet in the chamber when I'm walking around that gives me the heebie jeebies. Hell, even my home defense shotgun doesn't have one in the chamber. I just feel like I'm begging for something to happen and I would really have to kick my own arse if I got all worried, carried cocked and locked and ended up accidentally shooting myself when the chances of actually needing the gun are slim to none. I know that stuff happens, but I feel pretty confident that I would be able to identify a threat and rack the slide in time to stop them. The biggest danger where I live is homeless people soliciting for money, and they're usually so drunk/high that I could just out run them. If I lived in Orlando or Miami, then I would definitely carry with one in the chamber.

Also, do you guys unload your carry guns when you get home or just leave the same ammo for x amount of time? How often will you switch with fresh ammo? I've heard that after chambering a round 3 times or more you're supposed to throw the ammo away because the bullet could have gotten seated deeper and the pressure would be too high or something to that effect.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

If carrying a round in the chamber of any modern semi-auto (typically designed for such, and currently carried that way by MANY, i.e., 1911's, Glocks, CZ's, etc) bothers you, get your hands on a primed case, and put the primed case in the chamber of your gunr and carry it for several weeks. If it doesn't set off the primed case, it probably isn't going to set off any chambered live ammunition. You just need to get USED to the concept, but you can practice the above for further reassurance.

 

[Satasaurus]

@Sharp - I like your sig . I'll check those out, never heard of them. I'm just hesitant to carry with one in the chamber because I've heard of several "Glock leg" and other accidental discharge incidents, yet no "cocked and locked saved me" incidents. As a matter of fact, from what I understand, they taught soldiers in WWII to carry hammer down chamber empty. I guess I'll just split the difference and carry with the hammer down, round in the chamber with safety on.

 

[Havok7416]

Soldiers in WWII didn't use their pistols as their main weapons (for the most part). By the time it was time to use a pistol, they would have it out and have time to prepare it.

I have been trying for years to get my dad to carry with a round in the chamber and he won't do it. Taking the time to put a round into the chamber during a close struggle is time you may not have. Pistols are for the most part designed to be operated with one hand - ONCE they are loaded. Assuming you will always be able to rack the slide is a dangerous assumption IMO.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Satasaurus:

You seem to have an open mind about the issues, and that's always goodl

You mentioned "cocked and locked." "Cocked and locked" is a term of art used to describe a Single Action pistol that is carried with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked, but locked back by the safety. Most folks (and guns), nowadays, don't have that option -- as only a few guns (mostly Browning Hi-Powers, some CZs/CZ-pattern guns, and 1911s) really offer that carry option. Most modern service weapons, however, are designed (and intended) to be carried with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. (Modern firing pin safeties, which prevent firing pin movement except by trigger and hammer movement, make this a safe mode of carry.)

Having a round in the chamber is standard practice for nearly all guns used by LEOs. Most LEO guns are either Glocks or guns with decockers. A round in the chamber is also the standard used by most folks who carry for self-defense.

I would argue that the risk you face carrying a weapon with a round chambered -- in a good holster with a gun of good design -- is much less than the risk would you face if you try to bring a gun into action with no round in the chamber.

Right now, I'd say the biggest impediment to the quick and effective use of your weapon is your lack of comfort with that weapon. You need to get some instruction and spend some time at the range.

In addition, if there's a local IDPA club, go watch some matches, and consider joining. Do that and I think you'd become much more comfortable with your weapon very quickly, and learn good safety practices at the same time. You'll also meet some interesting folks who like guns, but are not gun "nuts" at all.

Note: they did require some GIs to carry hammer down on empty chambers, but it had more to do with the government's unwillingness to properly train a large number of troops than the government teaching the best method of carry. Darned few G.I.s were actually issued handguns in the first place, but from time to time might find themselves in a role that called for a handgun. Those folks included a lot of draftees, some of whom could barely tie their own shoes. <grin>

When GIs did carry handguns as a part of their normal duties and they went into action, there generally were rounds in the chambers and the hammers might be down or cocked and locked.

 

[CZguy]

I'm a Jew(gasp, waiting for thread to get deleted now...)

I see that wiser people than me have chosen to overlook this. And I probably should too............but, what the heck are you talking about?

Your religion has no bearing on this topic, and probably doesn't need to be discussed as it's non issue here.

I'm a lot more concerned with your lack of confidence in your pistol. Both Walt and Sharps gave very good advice. I hope that you find it helpful.

 

[Satasaurus]

Again, I apologize for going off topic so much, I should probably just start another thread ...

I have had plenty of time at the range and I'm much better then everyone else there when I go. In all honesty, I don't want to be comfortable with a gun. I respect guns and I think that if you get too comfortable with it you'll get sloppy. I want to be on edge when I'm handling, and especially carrying guns, loaded or not. I thought one of the fundamental rules of guns was that you never point them at something you aren't willing to destroy, and I definitely don't want to destroy anything it's pointing at in a holster.

I think that just having a gun and shooting it well are my biggest concerns. I'm always aware of my surroundings and I can quickly identify people I need to avoid. Honestly, I think a lot of people get themselves into bad situations because they're idiots. Out of all the people that have guns, how many do you know that have actually had to shoot someone? Out of those people how many were knowingly walking into a bad situation and yet still kept going? I think a lot of people are ignorant when it comes to how crazy and bad people can be. Some people think that no one would ever hurt them, they can leave their doors unlocked and the world is a big warm blanket of safety.

edit: @CZguy - I've gotten crap for being a Jew my whole life. We aren't the most liked group of people ...

 

[wickedsprint]

@Sharp - I like your sig . I'll check those out, never heard of them. I'm just hesitant to carry with one in the chamber because I've heard of several "Glock leg" and other accidental discharge incidents, yet no "cocked and locked saved me" incidents. As a matter of fact, from what I understand, they taught soldiers in WWII to carry hammer down chamber empty. I guess I'll just split the difference and carry with the hammer down, round in the chamber with safety on.

The Air Force carries Beretta M9 safety off with a round chambered. It's a very safe weapon.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I've gotten crap for being a Jew my whole life. We aren't the most liked group of people ...

Sort of like being a Democrat on most gun forums.

Religion isn't debated here; neither is politics. Most of us are here to talk about firearms, and to share our experiences -- good and bad.

It's good to be wary around firearms, but you can't let the wariness impede your ability to use them as they should be used or force you into making bad decisions. YOU seem to be dealing with some firearms-related "learning barriers" that are arguably impractical.

Just because you become more comfortable with a weapon doesn't automatically mean that you will also become less safe.

 

[YZ]

Again, I apologize for going off topic so much, I should probably just start another thread ...

I have had plenty of time at the range and I'm much better then everyone else there when I go. In all honesty, I don't want to be comfortable with a gun. I respect guns and I think that if you get too comfortable with it you'll get sloppy. I want to be on edge when I'm handling, and especially carrying guns, loaded or not. I thought one of the fundamental rules of guns was that you never point them at something you aren't willing to destroy, and I definitely don't want to destroy anything it's pointing at in a holster.

I think that just having a gun and shooting it well are my biggest concerns. I'm always aware of my surroundings and I can quickly identify people I need to avoid. Honestly, I think a lot of people get themselves into bad situations because they're idiots. Out of all the people that have guns, how many do you know that have actually had to shoot someone? Out of those people how many were knowingly walking into a bad situation and yet still kept going? I think a lot of people are ignorant when it comes to how crazy and bad people can be. Some people think that no one would ever hurt them, they can leave their doors unlocked and the world is a big warm blanket of safety.

edit: @CZguy - I've gotten crap for being a Jew my whole life. We aren't the most liked group of people ...

Satasaurus:
People defend their beliefs as to how and what to carry like its a religion in itself. Only you decide what's best for you, nor do I care whose advice you take.
But here is something else to consider.

Carrying a 1911 or another semiato cocked on safety. In the unlikely case you ever fire in self defense, your intent and mindset will be scrutinized by prosecution, the opposing attorney, or even the jury. You will be compelled to demonstrate reasonable fear for your life that caused you to operate your firearm in this mode. Your proficiency and training, or lack thereof, will be called into question. You will hear that even most LE on duty do not carry in Condition One. You will hear that the US Army switched to DA decocker equipped sidearms for a reason. In a more likely but still improbable scenario, you will have a negligent discharge. Hell will break loose, depending on the circumstances. You will be found lacking in training and skill as a civilian, who chose to operate his CCW way above his level of competence.

Should you decide it's for you, you owe it to yourself and possibly others to undergo some serious training and practice.

As a side note, THR is sponsored in part by the Jews for Gun Ownership (or similar name).

 

[guyfromohio]

Tough call. Can't go wrong with either. Around here, M9/92FS can be had for $550 new. CZ75 is harder to find for what they should go for... <$500. I've had a 75b and loved it. I've had a 92fs and M9 as well. I still have the M9 and wouldn't trade it for another 75. I guess that's my answer then. Very close though.

Edit: off topic wow!

 

[Satasaurus]

Satasaurus:
People defend their beliefs as to how and what to carry like its a religion in itself. Only you decide what's best for you, nor do I care whose advice you take.
But here is something else to consider.

Carrying a 1911 or another semiato cocked on safety. In the unlikely case you ever fire in self defense, your intent and mindset will be scrutinized by prosecution, the opposing attorney, or even the jury. You will be compelled to demonstrate reasonable fear for your life that caused you to operate your firearm in this mode. Your proficiency and training, or lack thereof, will be called into question. You will hear that even most LE on duty do not carry in Condition One. You will hear that the US Army switched to DA decocker equipped sidearms for a reason. In a more likely but still improbable scenario, you will have a negligent discharge. Hell will break loose, depending on the circumstances. You will be found lacking in training and skill as a civilian, who chose to operate his CCW way above his level of competence.

Should you decide it's for you, you owe it to yourself and possibly others to undergo some serious training and practice.

As a side note, THR is sponsored in part by the Jews for Gun Ownership (or similar name).

So you have obviously never met me. You've never seen how I shoot, but I'm incompetent and lacking training just because I feel uncomfortable carrying with a round in the chamber? Who the he...ck are you and what qualifications do you have? Btw, my 2 challenges still stand:

1) How many people do you know that have actually had to shoot someone when they were innocently minding their own business?

2) How many people do you know who's lives have been saved because of carrying with one in the chamber?

It's fine if you guys think I should carry with one in the chamber, but don't you dare start insulting my competence and skill as a shooter because of how I feel. None of you know me. None of you have seen me shoot and have absolutely 0 right to say squat until you have. I've owned a 9mm since I was 13 years old, I think I have a clue.

 

[Shipwreck]

One thing the CZ75/85's can do that the Beretta can't (as far as I know).


Change to .22LR in 15 seconds.

My conversion kit gets used a lot.

Beretta makes a 22 kit as well.

As for which one - I personally prefer the Beretta 92. Both are great guns. Get whatever you prefer.

Most of the rumors and "stories" about the Beretta are just that - stories repeated from 1 to another, with no personal experience.

 

[YZ]

You completely misunderstood everything I wrote.
In no way did I question your aptitude with guns. It is the other people who may do it, should anything happen. I typed black on white what I knew well in good faith.

The fact that you're asking total anonymous strangers on the Internet to guide your personal safety decisions, does not support the level of maturity one needs to do so. Good luck and stay safe.

 

[mgmorden]

I've owned both. In my eyes the CZ-75 is easily the better gun.

 

[1SOW]

WHEN ASKED, "Most" try to give advice based on opinions they formed when making that or similar decisions based on what they were taught or what they have experienced. If answers displease you, ignore them. Select the answers you prefer and press on.

Both are reliable straight-shooting pistols.
The CZ 75 DA/SA gives the shooter the option to carry the pistol in whichever condition is preferable to the shooter.
"I" carry a SIG P239 DA/SA that doesn't give options.
"I" compete with a CZ 75.
"I" trust either pistol.
"YOU" make your own choices.

 

[Satasaurus]

You completely misunderstood everything I wrote.
In no way did I question your aptitude with guns. It is the other people who may do it, should anything happen. I typed black on white what I knew well in good faith.

The fact that you're asking total anonymous strangers on the Internet to guide your personal safety decisions, does not support the level of maturity one needs to do so. Good luck and stay safe.

Last reply unless anyone else insults me.

It just seemed like you were saying that I am incompetent and lacking training. You said "you owe it to yourself and possibly others to undergo some serious training and practice" or am I seeing things?

If that horrible day ever comes that I have to be judged on saving my life, they can judge away. I would rather be in jail then be dead from being afraid I wasn't taking down the bad guy the proper way. I don't recall asking anyone to guide my personal safety decisions. I said a few times, and now once more, that I don't like carrying with one in the chamber. I never asked asked anything other then to provide me with examples of civilians you know that have had to shoot someone in self defense or who's lives have been saved by carrying with one in the chamber, which no one has provided. I can, however, find plenty of idiots that had accidental discharges from having one in the chamber. To each their own.

Back to CZ 75 vs Beretta 92. I'm really surprised with the poll results. I have a strong feeling that the CZ is winning by so much because it's cheaper and the grip is better for more people though. So far this thread is telling me that they're both great pistols and I should get whichever fits my hand better.

 

[Thompson9494]

CZ 75BD all the way

The pistol I received for my 18th birthday was a CZ 75BD. At the time I was considering a lot of candidates for my first pistol, everything from a Glock 17 to an HK USP-45. Originally, I didn't even have a CZ as one of my contenders until I happened on a forum one day that mentioned a CZ 75. Out of curiosity I looked into the CZ 75 as an option and the more I read up on it, the more attractive it seemed. Fast forward a few months to today and the CZ 75BD is my favorite pistol. The Beretta 96 (.40 cal variant of the 92) is okay, but it doesn't feel the same to me. The ergos on the 96 are adequate, as is everything else on the pistol, reliability is excellent but I hate the slide mounted decocker/safety. The CZ on the other hand is nothing short of excellent in every way, one thing I will say though, if you like your guns to be 'pretty' on the inside you'll find the CZ to be lacking. Does the CZ have tooling marks and what not on the inside? Yes. Do they contract from the weapons performance? No.

Regarding the CZ's cost, it's a steal, dude. CZ is starting to become more and more popular and with the rising popularity, the prices will inevitably rise with it.

That being said, either weapon will serve you well and for years to come.

 

[YZ]

Oh well. No offense was intended. Guess it was wrong to assume that if you ask strangers online to vote on your personal protection, you are somehow inexperienced. My mistake.