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CZ 75B or 75BD; Safety vs. Decocker?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by CaveLake08, Nov 5, 2010.

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  1. easyg

    easyg Member

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    Statements like these ^^ are the only "condescending garbage" in this thread.

    This might come as a surprise to you but you're not the only guy here who knows how to safely decock a revolver.

    But doing as you suggest and playing around with a loaded handgun, cocking and decocking as you draw, for no real reason, is both unsafe and just plain out stupid.
    It's just begging for an accident to happen.
    And recommending such reckless and unsafe practices to others, some of who don't know any better, on a public forum is equally stupid.
     
  2. dcarch

    dcarch Member

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    Alright guys, let's back down on the testosterone. Please don't turn this into another one of "those" threads. Try to answer the OP's question, and leave the arguments to PM's.
     
  3. floydster

    floydster Member

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    I have both the CZ 75 B and the CZ 75 D PCR-- the de-cocker PCR is my daily carry, safe as can be unless you are an idiot:)
    I can pull the hammer back just as fast as you can release your saftey, plus I have option of shooting DA.
    People make things way more complicated then they should be, use your head.
     
  4. Fastcast

    Fastcast Member

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    That would be peachy but it is difficult to ignore when the "girlie men" spout off how dangerous basic gun handling is and how fullish we are to practice such things. :rolleyes: ..... Some guys can't drive a stick shift either. lmao

    These are many times the same :uhoh: who spout off all the time how pistols don't need manual safeties because they, you or I may forget to swipe it on the draw and we'll be so overwhelmed with fear, we'll wilt like pansies and get ourself killed. :uhoh:

    These fine folks believe everyone should own a new wonder pistol with no safety because man can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time or he regularly trips over his own feet or he has two left thumbs......Maybe these fellows are so clumsy and nerdy they couldn't hit anyone, in a life or death situation anyway, regardless of it has a safety, doesn't have safety, a light ray or what not.......Fine but they should quit preaching to everyone else about their own insecurities!

    End of rant. :cuss:
     
  5. Fastcast

    Fastcast Member

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    75B can be shot double action on the first shot also. ;)
     
  6. floydster

    floydster Member

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    Fastcast, very true on the 75B. with the safety off and on half cock, basically the same as the PCR.
    I love my CZ's
     
  7. CaveLake08

    CaveLake08 Member

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    Thanks for all the responses everyone!

    Right now I think I'm leaning towards the 75 BD. My reasoning is this, so please address specifics if there's something illogical or have a different perspective:

    1. This isn't a carry gun, so I have no reason to carry cocked and locked.

    2. I figure while shooting at the range it really doesn't matter either way, so the decision comes down to which is better for me as a HD gun.

    3. As a nightstand gun, I don't plan on keeping a round in the chamber as I already addressed my concerns over using it with sleepy judgment (chambering a round is my way to make sure I'm alert enough to use a gun). The only reason it seems to me that it would be necessary to keep a round in the chamber for a HD gun is if you didn't wake up until an intruder was already in your bedroom, which I think is a) unlikely I wouldn't wake up until that point, and b) if someone with the intent to harm me is already in my bedroom when I wake up, that battle is probably already over.

    4. Because of 3., the only time I would likely use my pistol for HD is if I'm woken up by a sound in the house or outside. So I see the likely scenario in that I would rack the slide, then decock the pistol since I like the idea of not having to worry about a safety and if I'm sleepy or startled by a noise, a decocker would be a safer bet than doing it manually. Also, I feel DA would be better for the reason of if you flinch because of a noise or something there's not much chance of it going off, while still having it ready to go if need be without flicking off the safety.


    Sorry for the long post. I know this probably seems like a lot of fuss over 'B' vs. 'BD' and that I'll be happy with either, but I'm limiting myself to one full size 9 for probably the rest of my life so I want to ensure it's the best one for me (nothing against big collections, I just believe in 'less is more', and would rather spend money on more ammo).
     
  8. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    And the pig coming through the cedars ten feet away? Are you going to shoot it with the snake shot that comes under the hammer first?

    The coyote you see skulking away? The snake shot for him too?

    Look, we've already seen you call cocking a hunting weapon well before the shot a "silly scenario", which made every hunter in this thread collectively face palm. Now you are saying that cycling the cylinder on a Blackhawk is unnecessary and "plain out stupid", clearly without having actually considered the various scenarios that led to the weapon being loaded with two types of ammunition in the first place... which isn't unexpected because you clearly failed to consider how hunting really works in your previous statement. Hey, if you want to shoot a 400 pound hog at short range with snake shot, be my guest. I'm just not going to hang around when you do it.

    Clearly the actual use of firearms involves scenarios and practices that you failed to consider, and although you will insist until you run out of breath that they are unsafe... those of us that work our guns, train with them and live by them know better. Since you won't change your mind, and I know from a great deal of experience that you are wrong, we will have to leave the matter for the readers to decide... that is.. are these practices truly unsafe or do you just not know of which you speak.

    This is how I carry my -75B(s). I have yet to find a duty holster for them that I trust (Serpas are right out) and allows me to carry it in condition 1. For the sake of training commonality, I carry them the same way in uniform or out. The safety gets used if the weapon needs to be re-holstered after being fired, but before and incident is safely concluded.

    I briefly carried the SP-01 Phantom for a while, during which the de-cocker served the same function. Unfortunately standard CZ-75 magazines won't drop free from the Phantom and the SP-01 magazines that it comes with (which oddly enough do drop free) are too long for a normal magazine carrier. I did enjoy the lighter weight for the time I carried it though. :)
     
  9. easyg

    easyg Member

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    This my last remark in this particular thread.

    To Fastcast and ClickClickD'oh,
    Graveyards all around the world are filled with folks who thought they could beat the odds and practice unsafe firearms handling like what you two guys advocate.
    You might get away with it for a while, maybe even a long while, but sooner or later you will screw up and have a negligent discharge.
    And for what?
    Just so you play around cocking and decocking your revolver for no good reason.
     
  10. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    I have a 75B - bought it as a range gun for a cheaper shooter at
    the range to cut back on .45 ACP with my 1911 or S&W 625 Revolver.

    Col. Jeff Cooper gave the CZ 75B his endorsement in his test/review of
    one CZ 75 in a gun test in GUns & Ammo in the Late '70s. with the caveat
    of if you want a 9mmx19 it got his approval. This was because it offered
    the option of DA carry/first shot -or- you could carry it Condition One
    cocked and locked. To this day it is one of the only DA/SA pistils
    that offer this dual mode first shot carry option.

    When I load a magazine in the 75B I do this:
    * rack the slide to chamber a round
    * place my left index finger to hold back the hammer
    * pull the trigger, catching the hammer as it releases
    & at the same time get my trigger finger out of the trigger
    guard.
    * I then let the hammer fall to the half cok or safety position
    as CZ instructs in the manual. and it's in DA mode.

    I still have the option be it on the range or in the field to
    pause and engage the frame mounted thumb safety to wait
    or to holster the weapon in Condition One or to manually
    drop the hammer again.

    if you have the BD with the decocker you don't have the Dond. One
    option and will always 'trust' the decocker lever to do what your
    own skills should be honed to, nor will you have a safety if you want to
    pause in firing and go to a safe mode.

    learn your manual of arms with your weapon.

    Randall
     
  11. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    why am I recalling the recent advert

    "well let's just go off to nambypamby land
    where maybe you can find some self conficdnce
    yah jackwagon!" Gunny Sgt Arlee Early


    then when the decocker fails you can blame something
    instead of your own ability.


    sheeish
    js
     
  12. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    That wold be a pretty cool graveyard to visit. Apparently it's like a who's who of Darwin Awards.

    Don't suppose you could give us the name of one such graveyard that is full of people who killed themselves trying to de-cock a firearm?

    ....

    ....

    ....

    No? I didn't think so.


    Facts only please. The overly dramatic stuff is counter productive... not to mention laughable.

    Now, since those of us that cock and de-cock external hammer weapons have provided explanations of perfectly safe means of doing so... perhaps you would care to explain, in a factual and reasoned manner, why you think it is so dangerous to do so.

    I expect a detailed explanation of just how the hammer is supposed to go through ones thumb.
     
  13. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    Hey clickclick doh!

    yah think when the sear fails just after they use their
    crutch of a decoker and the gun oes BANG! they'll
    be calling a lawyer for the lawsuit?

    THumb ? no left index finger is more dexterious

    great gun the 75B accurate and dead nuts rliable
    I usually go 400-700 rds thru before a cleaning -
    what a great design an service pistol

    with the caveat for a 9x19 sorry I'm an old schooll
    1911 guy USN '72-'78 qualified for the ribbon with one
    loose range gun

    Randall
     
  14. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    To be honest, the firing pin block should prevent any of the loud pills from cranking off if the sear fails... but it wold sure be a brown pants moment for anyone that recognized what had happened.

    I've never tried using my left index finger to de-cock my -75B. It's a one handed operation for me.
     
  15. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    I explained the left index finger method is that it is set
    in front of the hammer as it falls. none of this like a revolver stuff
    like a gunfighter and the old single action or a DA/SA revolver.

    and yes I have several S&W revolvers - had my first DA/SA S&W
    in '65 Using the thumb on a semi-auto to manipiulate the hammer
    isn't my cup o'tea - it could slip and go bang when I try it on a 1911
    in order to get the hand strength/leverage my trigger finger wants to go
    into the trigger guard - oh that's not good at all. the proper manual of arms on a 1911 to cock the hammer is to cycle the slide

    imho and that's what works for me safely

    Randall


    .
     
  16. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    Opinion and statement of apparent inexperience. Safe ways were explained.

    Opinion and statement of apparent inexperience. Perfectly good reasons were explained.

    Incorrect and misleading characterization based on opinion and apparent inexperience.

    Opinion and statement of apparent inexperience.

    Opinion and statement of apparent inexperience.

    Opinion and statement of apparent inexperience.


    I see a trend. :p :p


    Hopefully it will not continue and will instead be treated as a learning opportunity. ;)
     
  17. Fastcast

    Fastcast Member

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    :uhoh: Do you ever leave your computer, xbox or bedroom? :uhoh:


    Have you ever spent a day afield with an adult, male mentor and I don't mean paintball field? :confused:


    Does your mom still wash your cloths? Just asking. :scrutiny:
     
  18. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    Ah, just like the method I suggested, only I use the thumb on my shooting hand to move in front of the hammer. You can't do this on a 1911 because of the palm safety, but it works perfectly on the CZ.
     
  19. Fastcast

    Fastcast Member

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    CaveLake for the many reasons you listed, the BD may be better for you. Since you don't appear to be a hand gun guy, the ease of the BD should work out well.

    The other things that I'll mention is to always de-cock in a safe direction, just in case.....Also, if you don't have your finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot, flinching won't be a problem. You can lay your trigger finger right along the frame, parallel with the slide and barrel and when it's time to fire, curl it right into the trigger guard and pull through the trigger.

    Good luck with your new CZ.....You'll have yourself a great pistol either way, B or BD!
     
  20. Isher

    Isher Member

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    Dang. Where's Shakespeare when we need him? That's all that is lacking here......... ah. From

    The Tragedy of Macbeth, Act V Scene V (spoken by Macbeth hisself)

    Only to say I've got CZ's with decockers, and CZ's with safeties. Use 'em both, like 'em both, both are mechanically reliable.

    Peace

    Isher
     
  21. floydster

    floydster Member

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    Amazing!!
     
  22. SwampWolf

    SwampWolf Member

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    Everything else being equal? Not bloody likely.
     
  23. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    I apologize for anyone who I may have p.o.'d

    whatever works for you...

    R-
     
  24. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    SIMPLE! Face muzzle at a safe direction, hold the hammer with the supported fingers, press trigger, once you feel the hammer give, RELEASE TRIGGER IMMEDIATELY, then lower the hammer. It is close to impossible for the hammer to strike the firing pin once the trigger is off. This is what I have been doing with my CZ75B and Taurus PT1911. I also have a Sig P220 with a deocoker and still hold onto the hamemr when I use the decocker. ITS GOOD PRACTICE!
     
  25. floydster

    floydster Member

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    Peace to everyone, try not to shoot yourself in the foot:)
     
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