CZ-85 Combat or XDm 5.25" for USPSA Production? and why?

[Detritus]

Being the type of person that has to tinker and experiment even when doing something that I truly like, I have been thinking that later this year I will likely dabble a bit with shooting Production every now and then instead of Single Stack. If for no other reason than it give me an excuse to buy another pistol.

that said I'm not yet decided as to which pistol I would want to get for this little endeavor. As noted in the thread title I have narrowed it down to either a CZ-85 Combat or an XDm 5.25, with a slight current lean toward the CZ.

so since I like both guns fairly equally, and am not sure as to what if any handicaps each might have in being used in Production, I figured i'd throw this out there and get the opinion of others more experienced than myself.

thank you for any info you can give, and I will probably have more questions as this goes on.

p.s. One quick question for those who've used a CZ in USPSA Production, on a 75/85 series pistol without a decocker how is the requirement to decock/start DA handled? since many RO types I've known would throw a conniption about manually lowering a hammer on a chambered round.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have shot a CZ in IDPA SSP.
I, too, saw SOs wig out when I eased the hammer down. Tough, it is not against the rules. I never came close to an AD in match or practice.

CZs are common in IPSC because their first shot minimum trigger pull favors the crunch-tick where the usual USPSA/IDPA hair trigger Glock is not allowed.

 

[mgmorden]

As far as manually lowering the hammer on the CZ you're fine. If anyone tries to argue it take it to the RM.

That said, I'd PERSONALLY go for the XDM. I know CZ's are the new hotness right now but I just don't like starting with a DA first shot. Tried my Beretta 92 for a while in Production and it was just annoying - more so on things like classifiers where shot counts are generally lower (so no long spread to make up for a bad shot, and less opportunity to on Virginia Count courses).

I personally shoot an M&P 9L - though I've been kind of eyeing the Walther PPQ M2 5" as a possible gun to try out.

 

[1SOW]

I shoot Production USPSA with a 75 Shadow.
An 8.5# hammerspring, CZ Comp. Hammer and some polishing/smoothin brings the DA pull to under 6#. Add the short reset dis-connector and SA can easily be 2.8# . Federal primers are required for 100% reliability with this combo. This first shot DA pull is not a detriment to speed or accuracy.

The 11.5# hammer spring only adds a few ounces to the SA pull and maybe a pound or so to the DA.

The low bore axis and weight make follow-up shots fast and accurate.

It is the indian and not the arrow, but a great arrow does make it easier for the indian to score.

 

[waktasz]

The DA first shot on these gamer guns is a non issue. MAYBE I lose a little time if the first shot of the stage is out at 35+ yards, but other than that, I don't think it's slowing down my draw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7ZZmtoPK_M

 

[ny32182]

As far as lowering the hammer manually, they better un-wig, because that is standard procedure on about 90% of the DA/SA guns that are commonly used in competition.

Looking at top 16 production nationals last year, I only know for sure of two guys that used a striker gun (for a couple guys I'm not 100% sure)... DA/SA is by far the most popular at the top of the sport right now. Learning how to pull a DA trigger is not even the hardest part of going to DA/SA from striker, in my experience... and then you get a superior trigger pull for the other 95% of the shots.

 

[tarosean]

As far as lowering the hammer manually, they better un-wig,

Pretty much.....


The RULE

10.5.9
Failure to keep the finger outside the trigger guard during loading,
reloading, or unloading. Exception: while complying with the “Make
Ready” command to lower the hammer of a gun without a decocking
lever, or while initially loading a revolver with a spurless hammer

 

[Ankeny]

I used to shoot a CZ 75B in USPSA Production Division. I have never seen or heard of an RO saying anything about lowering the hammer manually in the absence of a de-cocker. It's a non-issue.

 

[1KPerDay]

An 8.5# hammerspring, CZ Comp. Hammer and some polishing/smoothin brings the DA pull to under 6#.

Wow!

 

[peacemaker45]

CZs are on top of the heap at the moment. The one generally used is the SP-01 Shadow, though, rather than 75/85. Being a lefty myself, I'd be looking for an 85 for a real world gun, but for USPSA, the big heavy SP-01 is the way to go.

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

..............

 

[chbrow10]

To be clear: the CZ SP-01 Shadow is at the top of the heap in Production division, not the CZ 85. There are large differences in the triggers between the CZ SP-01 Shadow and the CZ 85 that you should be aware. A new CZ SP-01 Shadow runs ~$1200, with all the go fasts. A XDm 5.25 with all the go fasts runs about half that. I have owned and shot both in USPSA, and if I had the money, I'd go for the CZ SP-01 Shadow. Note that the CZ 75 Shadow is not the same gun.

 

[ny32182]

You can also get a CZC Accushadow, turn-key ready for about $1500. I shoot TZ's in production, but my CZ buddies tell me there is a noticeable increase in accuracy with the Accushadow.

 

[jbj]

In IPSC/USPSA the ranges are "cold", i.e. no loaded chambers or mags in gun unless on the line. As such, at the "Unload, make safe, and show clear"command, many ROs have you point in a safe direction and pull the trigger rather than decock, to prove the chamber is empty. Don't think the decocker on a live round scenario has never played out.

 

[waktasz]

You are REQUIRED to pull the trigger, in a safe direction during the "if clear,hammer down, holster" command.

The decocker is not to be used. If a shooter uses the decocker and quickly holsters I make him show me empty again and use the trigger to dry fire the gun.

 

[Detritus]

In IPSC/USPSA the ranges are "cold", i.e. no loaded chambers or mags in gun unless on the line. As such, at the "Unload, make safe, and show clear"command, many ROs have you point in a safe direction and pull the trigger rather than decock, to prove the chamber is empty. Don't think the decocker on a live round scenario has never played out.

You are REQUIRED to pull the trigger, in a safe direction during the "if clear,hammer down, holster" command.

The decocker is not to be used. If a shooter uses the decocker and quickly holsters I make him show me empty again and use the trigger to dry fire the gun.

Just to be clear in case there was some confusion, my question in the OP regarding lowering the hammer on a DA/SA pistol such as the CZ75 series, was about doing so at the start of the stage i.e. at Load and make ready.
Again just making sure there's no confusion since several posts have referenced procedure for unload and show clear.


regardless thank you all for the info and advice. still undecided on this, but leaning toward a CZ.

 

[waktasz]

I know, I was just replying to the person directly ahead of me. I shoot a Tanfoglio in Production now. Haven't had anyone even peep at me when doing my make ready routine.