CZ Decocker vs. Safety for USPSA?

[NYTRansplant]

Ok, total newbie here and my first post. I am in search of a CZ 75B as my first pistol. I will typically be using it for range shooting, but will likely try my hand at some USPSA events for fun. I have searched the forums, but have not come up with a definitive answer to this question:

Is a decocking lever a sufficient "hammer down" condition for production class, or will I need to manually lower the hammer?

Thanks!

 

[3 gun]

Using the decocking lever is fine as long as it leaves the hammer completely down. You would not be able to use it as part of the "show clear" drill at the end of the stage. You must drop the hammer by using the trigger then. In a broad general sense are are most likely better off with a decock over a manual safety pistol for most shooting sports when dealing with a DA/SA pistol.

I use a CZ75b with a manual safety for USPSA/IDPA. You have to be very careful the hammer does not slip after loading and lowering the hammer. A slip could cause a discharge and an early end to your match. It can be done, you just can not ever let it be done on "auto pilot".

 

[NYTRansplant]

Thanks 3 gun. On the 75BD, the hammer is lowered to the half-cocked position when using the decocking lever. If this is not legal for a hammer down start, then I will go for a 75B.

I'm not so concerned about a DQ as much as I'm concerned about the condition of my weak hand if I AD. OUCH!

 

[stevemis]

All of the CZ decocker products (SP01 Tactical, 75BD, P01) decock to the half-cock position. Unfortunately, I know more about the CZ product line than the competition rules... as you and others said, this might not be considered "hammer down".

If the decockers are still an option, give a strong look at the SP01 Tactical. It's got more muzzle weight than the 75, so it's faster (at least for me) to re-acquire a target. The SP01 also has much larger sights than the 75.

Do let us know what you find out about the rules.

Steve

 

[Hoser]

The decocker models are harder to get a good trigger job on.

Other than that, either will work just fine.

 

[Jim Watson]

CZ75BD with decocker is on the Production approved list. I don't see how they could require you to override a "safety device" to get the hammer all the way down.

 

[NYTRansplant]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Jim, you make a good point.

OK, now what about the other side of the coin? If you cannot "cock and lock" because the safety is replaced by a decocker, can you no longer use it in the "Hammer Up" condition? I haven't found in the rules where it says the safety has to be engaged.

 

[3 gun]

Appendix D4 page 74-75 of the Jan 08 rules book, "Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked at the start signal". As I read that, if the CZ-BD stops at half cock it would not be a legal start with the new rules. But it could be argued that half cock WAS fully decocked by a range lawyer. I guess this will need to be cleared up. The old rules stated that the first shot simply had to be DA.

ADDED in post 10 also:
Asked and answered.

Fully decocked is all the way down, half cocked is just that. So it would
have to be lowered manually if the decocker did not bring it all the way down.

John Amidon
VP USPSA
Director NROI

 

[Jim Watson]

Yes, somebody in the market should call John Amidon before he sinks the price of a gun; then post the answer widely.

 

[3 gun]

Asked and answered.

Fully decocked is all the way down, half cocked is just that. So it would
have to be lowered manually if the decocker did not bring it all the way down.

John Amidon
VP USPSA
Director NROI

 

[jlbraun]

What a stupid rule. Half cock is the way the gun was designed to be carried. The decocker is called that for a reason. It's not a half-cocker.

 

[NYTRansplant]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies everyone. I guess I'll be getting a 75B or a SP-01. I do like the fact that I can get the 75B in Satin Nickel or stainless, where the BD is only Black.

Will the extra weight of the stainless gun help absorb the recoil? or am I better off with a lighter gun?

 

[PPGMD]

Fully decocked is all the way down, half cocked is just that. So it would
have to be lowered manually if the decocker did not bring it all the way down.

Very very few guns go all the way down, it's too much of a safety risk. Just off the top of my head I know Hk, Sig, CZ, and many other decock to a position that is not all the way down.

This decision would basically mean that production is now only for DAO, and Safe Action type guns only because few DA/SA hammer guns go all the way down.

Guess all the Glock guys were complaining that they were getting dominated by CZs in Production so they had the rules written for them.

 

[ants]

Beretta and Smith&Wesson hammers go all the way down at decock. Both are in wide Production use in our Region. In IDPA, too.

 

[GTSteve03]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies everyone. I guess I'll be getting a 75B or a SP-01. I do like the fact that I can get the 75B in Satin Nickel or stainless, where the BD is only Black.

Will the extra weight of the stainless gun help absorb the recoil? or am I better off with a lighter gun?

All CZ 75s are totally steel pistols, so there won't be a weight difference between finishes.

I'm partial to the nickel finish myself, as it's the most durable of the CZ finishes, it's nearly bomb-proof. However, the stainless will allow you to polish out small scratches and might look a little better if you like shiny. The CZ nickel is a very matte finish.

 

[bp78]

I think you'll find a majority of USPSA shooters using safety models and not decockers. Reason being that a trigger job is easier on the non-decocker models.

Case in point, a professional trigger job on the decocker model is an extra $35.
http://czcustom.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=63

 

[NYTRansplant]

Thanks so much everyone. I went out and bought my CZ yesterday. What a great gun. I have not shot it yet, but plan to do so this afternoon. Thanks again for all your help!


Oh, and by the way. Decocking is a piece of cake. I guess I should not have been so worried.

 

[stevemis]

Well done... Looking forward to a range report!

 

[NYTRansplant]

Hmm...range report huh? OK, well since this is only my second time firing a pistol, I'll give it a shot. (No pun intended)

My friend and I (and the wives) went to the local range where he is a member. He brought along his .40 cal Glock (I think it was a 23) and his SIG P226. My wife had her S&W .38 and my friend's wife brought her .380 SIG. Of course I had my CZ 75B. I have to say the gun felt great in my hand, and was like an extension of my arm. I could point it, then check the sights and I wasn't too far off the mark. I fired 150 rounds through the gun with no feed or ejection issues using WWB. My hands and gun were filthy when I was done, but other than that, no issues.
The range was 50 ft. and I managed to hit an 8" taget about 60-75% of the time without a whole lot of effort. The target I used for the last 60-70 rounds looked like it was hit a little heavier on the left side than the right, with a distribution that was pretty random vertically. I'm assuming that is an issue of technique over accuracy. I didn't change out my targets that often because there were about 10-15 shooters at any point, and I just wanted to shoot, rather than keep waiting for the range to go cold.
Comparing the SIG to the CZ, I felt as though the SIG had a "softer" recoil and the gun acquired the target on the second shot faster. Other than that, they seemed about the same as far as accuracy.
I didn't get to shoot his Glock, but my wife did. She compared the recoil of the Glock as heavier but smoother than the CZ.

I can't wait to shoot it again!

 

[Luis Leon]

I agree with Jlbraun who wrote:

"What a stupid rule. Half cock is the way the gun was designed to be carried. The decocker is called that for a reason. It's not a half-cocker."

The guns were designed to be carry with the hammer at the so-called "half-cocked" position, which is in fact fully "decocked" bs rule is all that it is, and I for one won't abide by it.

regards,

Luis Leon