CZ-97B in IDPA?

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What division would it end up in? I was thinking ESP, but one the list of excluded modifications are "Full length dust covers of carbon or stainless steel."

Now, the CA-97B has a full length dust cover, but it's not a modification-every -97B comes from the factory that way. So would it be excluded?

I think it might also qualify for CDP if it makes weight, as long as you download the mags to 8 rounds. Two different sources give two different weights for the 97B. The CZ-USA sight says 2.4 lbs, which translates to 38.5 oz or so, just under 39. world.guns.ru says 1150g, or 40.56 oz, just under the 41 oz cutoff for CDP. And I'm not sure if those numbers are with an empty mag or not.
 
You'll have to weigh the gun with an empty mag inserted to see the true weight. If it makes weight and fits in the IDPA sizer box then I don't know why it wouldn't be allowed in CDP or ESP.

The dust cover issue is directed at the 1911 crowd (think Les Baer Monolith).
 
As posted in another thread http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg97-e.htm shows the weight of a CZ97b with an empty mag to be 40.56oz. This would make it too heavy for SSP but ok for ESP/CDP. Now, if you grab your trusty rule book and open it to p21, it reads “Pistols approved for SSP may also be used in ESP and CDP depending upon caliber, even if the pistol in question has a full length dust cover. However, should the pistol in question have a modification that removes it from ssp, it must meet all other division criteria for ESP or CDP…” The CZ97b is caught in a catch 22, as it would have to be legal for SSP (but it’s too heavy) before you could use it in ESP/CDP (where its weight would be ok). So it looks like it just won’t work “by the book” for IDPA. One chance I see of using it would be to mill from the frame (in a place that’s not externally visible) enough material to make the SSP weight limit. Excluded modifications are “1. Externally visible modifications other than grips or sights” and “7. Slide lightning.”, so stay away from the slide or outside.
 
The CZ-USA website lists the weight at 2.4 lbs, which equals 38.4 oz...so I guess you'd have to do like High Velocity said and take it in and let them weight it.

As for the second point, I think that'd get into niggling over the meaning of 'modification.' The CZ-97B wieght isn't a 'modification' which makes it ineligible for SSP-it's a from-the-factory result of basic design choices, ie the steel frame.

Unlike the Les Baer, it's not designed to be a competition pistol. It's just a big, heavy service pistol.
 
Remember its not just pistol weight, but pistol and empty magazine weight. One other option might be to shorten the dustcover by 1/8” then it wouldn’t be full length, thus eligible for CDP and ESP despite how one interprets the other rule. All and all, I would say shoot all of the club matches you want, and you might be ok at many sanctioned matches, but it would suck to get DQ’ed because the MD didn’t have the same take about the rules as you or I do. How does that go…safe/sorry.
 
#1 on the excluded list for ESP and CDP is “Full length dust covers of carbon or stainless steel.” They did leave an out by saying pistols approved for SSP are ok in ESP and CDP; however, they did NOT write “pistols that would be SSP approved, if they didn’t weigh too much, are ok in ESP and CDP. You could always ask HQ, if they by chance say its ok I would ask if they could email me a letter of approval I could print out. If you don't have a copy of the rulebook you can download one. http://idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf (p.18-24.)
 
Glocks are allowed because their dust covers are not metal.

From your thread on the other board, I repeat:
Nobody's opinion on the dust cover matters except Robert Ray's. Contact IDPA HQ preferably before you buy or if you already have one, before you rely on the gun at a sanctioned match.

Catalog weights don't matter, get the gun on a good scale with a magazine in place. If you haven't bought yet, make that a condition of sale to the dealer. There are several brands of 1911 that are heavier than Colt, for example, but they don't say so in their advertising. Like Baer.
 
I wonder if the folks in the grocery store would look at me funny dropping a pistol in the produce scales. :p

I wouldn't buy the pistol just for competition-the CZ-97B is a damn fine pistol, and I've wanted one for a while. But some of it's features seem like it'd get snarled in IDPA's rules, so I was curious.

Besides, buying a pistol just to shoot in IDPA matches, even if it doesn't violate any rule, is a big violation of the whole spirit of the thing.

I've got a Sig P229, and I know that's legal.
 
I liked IPDA's 'run what you brung' rules early on. But anyone that would DQ a newbie for bringing a (not on our list) stock over-the-counter pistol is a jerk.

Case in point:

Where's a 45 cal DA auto go? ala SW 945? I mean its NOT a CDP but it only holds 8 rounds... ESP is sort of 'made' for the .38 super crowd, but the BHP and CZ75SA fall there too... and so do wide body 45 and 40 cal para ords... Where's the P7 M8 fit? I'd say your 97 falls in ESP. Load 10 rounds and go.

Truthfully since there's no 'penalty' for making major or not... does what you bring really matter? IDPA's big rules are no more than 10 in a magazine, no more than 3 mags a stage.

I realize a ranked state match might frown on a 'run what you brung' mentality...but IDPA was never supposed to be a 'gear' game.
 
Hey, Doc.

S&W 945 is NOT double action and IS CDP.
Even if it were a double action 645, it is STILL CDP because it is .45 ACP, the only actual requirement for the Division. It could shoot in SSP also at magazine capacity disadvantage. Or ESP, if you just HAD TO. I know a guy who bought the first Plastic M&P .45 in town with a view towards using it in all Divisions. CDP because it is .45 ACP, SSP because it is sort'a double action, ESP because it shoots.

H&K P7 is ESP, worked out long ago.

If Langenator doesn't want to contact HQ, it is all guesswork and what the local MD will allow.
 
I've got to get my hands on the thing first; auction isn't over yet. Once I get it, I'll weigh it and see where to go from there.

All the issues except the dust cover would be largely moot if it weighs 41.1 oz or more.
 
CZ 97 would shoot in SSP provided it makes weight. It doesn't in it's stock form.

Because it doesn't meet SSP by weight it can't shoot in ESP. It makes weight for ESP but has a dustcover.

It can't shoot CDP even though it makes weight because of the dustcover. IDPA HQ , I believe, has already ruled the CZ97 is nothing more than a CZ 75B with a Dustcover addded in .45acp.

We had a guest show up last night with a 97B and he shot CDP down loaded to 8 rounds - nobody gets turned away using a standard production gun at our club. We are out there to have fun with a sport we enjoy.

Take Care


Bob
 
And heck, if IDPA doesn't like the CZ-97, I'm sure it'll be great for 3 Gun. Most of their rules sets don't get nearly as niggly about gun specs from what I've seen.

Optics (yes or no), 9x19mm or bigger (.44 bore or bigger for Heavy Metal) and that's about it. Some Heavy Metal says only 8 round mags, I guess to keep the 1911s competitive. I'd imagine a USP with 12 rounds cocked & locked, or a Para P14.45 with 14, might be an advantage there.
 
In Colorado we have a division called "Outlaw."

If the gun you want to use is illegal, you dont want to use IDPA tactics, ect... we let you shoot for score, just in outlaw division.

Same thing USPSA/IPSC does. They just call it open.
 
Danged if it ain't. 40.5 oz catalog and many guns run heavier than advertised. Guess that is why I have never seen one in a match and why S&W quit bringing them to demo bays at big matches after they came out with the 1911 mutants.

I think the Outlaw Division is a good one.

I will let you shoot anything you want to... if that is all you have.
 
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