CZ P-01 and CZ PCR
- Thread starter Jaywalker
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Walt Sherrill
Member
Jaywalker said:
You can always get the one the Custom Shop offers. Be sure to talk with them about it -- and you do have to send the gun to them, as they say it's an IN SHOP mod only... It'll probably cost more than twice as much after shipping is figured in...
http://czcustom.com/cz75disconnectorshrt.aspx
CGW also has a disconnector that helps with reset. I might have to get one of those for my 85 Combat. (He has versions for different models.)
There's nothing wrong with either CGW or CZCustom, as far as I know. From what I understand, both provide highly professional services.
The issue for me is that both appear to provide aftermarket parts in a fire control system and I have no idea how much research went into the selection of those critical parts. Did a materials engineer choose the steel and heat treatment? I've never seen the trigger, but it sounds as if there are different leverage points, so how was all of this tested together to prevent stress affecting downstream parts? I would think it would require more than a shop function test, and if that's been done I can't find mention of it. Have any law enforcement agencies approved it? That would be a kind of de facto test.
Basically, I like the idea of having a trigger my short fingers can reach, but the issue is a part of my OP about the PCR's testing and redesign. If the redesign actually happened for other than easing production, I would expect to see improved robustness result, and maybe that might overcome some of my concerns about aftermarket fire control parts. Bad things sometimes happen to parts and designs that have gone through rigorous testing; it's not a stretch to think bad things might happen more often to parts and designs that haven't gone through that testing.
The issue for me is that both appear to provide aftermarket parts in a fire control system and I have no idea how much research went into the selection of those critical parts. Did a materials engineer choose the steel and heat treatment? I've never seen the trigger, but it sounds as if there are different leverage points, so how was all of this tested together to prevent stress affecting downstream parts? I would think it would require more than a shop function test, and if that's been done I can't find mention of it. Have any law enforcement agencies approved it? That would be a kind of de facto test.
Basically, I like the idea of having a trigger my short fingers can reach, but the issue is a part of my OP about the PCR's testing and redesign. If the redesign actually happened for other than easing production, I would expect to see improved robustness result, and maybe that might overcome some of my concerns about aftermarket fire control parts. Bad things sometimes happen to parts and designs that have gone through rigorous testing; it's not a stretch to think bad things might happen more often to parts and designs that haven't gone through that testing.
Walt Sherrill
Member
Jaywalker:
Why don't you contact the various entities and ASK 1) CZ-USA, what the nature of the P-01 changes were, and whether they've applied to the PCR as well, and 2) contact either CZ Custom or CGW (or both) and ask what processing and testing went into the development of the new parts. There are email addresses for all parties and phone numbers easily found on the web...
If you prefer to wait for someone to answer those questions, you may as well start looking at a different line of weaponry.
Note: there has, for years, been a large number of after-market part suppliers for many different weapons. I've used some of their after-market parts for Glocks, Rugers, Witness and CZs. Never really had a problem. I've also used after-market barrels for a number of different guns, ranging from BHPs to Glocks, to SIGs. (I've never had a problem with quality or failures, but those who have had problems generally find the issues resolved quickly with replacement parts or improved products.) These companies want to be and stay in business.
Your concern about quality and durability is understood, but arguably unjustified... That said, direct questions to the makers, as noted above, should lessen your concern or cause you to seek elsewhere. In the case of CZ Custom Shop and CGW parts, most of them have been in the field long enough for weak designs to have shown themselves. (I know that CGW offered free "test" parts to a number of shooters for a while before they were made available to the general public. I was offered one of the CGW adjustable sears for testing, back when, but was so busy doing work and school that I simply couldn't do an appropriate test.)
Why don't you contact the various entities and ASK 1) CZ-USA, what the nature of the P-01 changes were, and whether they've applied to the PCR as well, and 2) contact either CZ Custom or CGW (or both) and ask what processing and testing went into the development of the new parts. There are email addresses for all parties and phone numbers easily found on the web...
If you prefer to wait for someone to answer those questions, you may as well start looking at a different line of weaponry.
Note: there has, for years, been a large number of after-market part suppliers for many different weapons. I've used some of their after-market parts for Glocks, Rugers, Witness and CZs. Never really had a problem. I've also used after-market barrels for a number of different guns, ranging from BHPs to Glocks, to SIGs. (I've never had a problem with quality or failures, but those who have had problems generally find the issues resolved quickly with replacement parts or improved products.) These companies want to be and stay in business.
Your concern about quality and durability is understood, but arguably unjustified... That said, direct questions to the makers, as noted above, should lessen your concern or cause you to seek elsewhere. In the case of CZ Custom Shop and CGW parts, most of them have been in the field long enough for weak designs to have shown themselves. (I know that CGW offered free "test" parts to a number of shooters for a while before they were made available to the general public. I was offered one of the CGW adjustable sears for testing, back when, but was so busy doing work and school that I simply couldn't do an appropriate test.)
Walt,
That's a reasonable approach. My post here was originally designed to provide me well-known (to others, anyway) info about which I shouldn't waste a specialist's time. It appears I need to do so as it isn't well-known, if it exists at all.
My concern about these specific parts may be unfounded, but a review of some long-term tests (in excess of 50k rounds) leads me to the conclusion that parts can break and aftermarket parts break more frequently. All of my carry pieces have factory-only parts and recently I've begun carrying a BUG as parts seldom give warning when they go.
Thanks.
That's a reasonable approach. My post here was originally designed to provide me well-known (to others, anyway) info about which I shouldn't waste a specialist's time. It appears I need to do so as it isn't well-known, if it exists at all.
My concern about these specific parts may be unfounded, but a review of some long-term tests (in excess of 50k rounds) leads me to the conclusion that parts can break and aftermarket parts break more frequently. All of my carry pieces have factory-only parts and recently I've begun carrying a BUG as parts seldom give warning when they go.
Thanks.
Walt Sherrill
Member
Jaywalker said:
Fine. We now understand your motives and reasoning.
You've seen long-term tests of aftermarket parts? If not, why do you feel those parts fail more frequently?
For that matter, do you have a SINGLE WEAPON through which you've fired 50,000 (or even 20,000) rounds? Do you have a weapon that you fell confident enough to carry, that has had a failure of any sort? Most major brands of guns are pretty reliable -- and the ones that aren't have reputations that precede them.
In my years of shooting, I've had one Glock trigger return spring break; all of my other gun failures became obvious IMMEDIATELY upon a range session, or were slow to develop -- like springs slowly giving up the ghost, affecting feeding or extraction, etc. That's why most people recommend that you shoot your carry gun regularly -- to notice small problems before they become major problems. Catastrophic failures are pretty rare. In fact, it's just as likely that a mag or round will fail as the gun will fail -- do you carry a spare mag?
Being prepared is good practice and a good mindset, but if your selection standards are too stringent, you run the risk of NEVER finding a weapon that meets your high personal standards.
A BUG doesn't hurt, of course. But I know guys who carry multiple weapons and knives, etc. I suspect that if you were to look up "obsessive" in the dictionary, you'd see one of their pictures. Don't be like them.
Walt Sherrill
Member
Jaywalker said:
I went to that site and found a presentation about one man's experience with several guns. Is that what you meant? Not a lot of meat there, and little that you can use to make a decision. It was titled, "WHAT IS RELIABLE." http://pistol-training.com/archives/6837
Perhaps there were other articles on the site, or you meant something more specific; if so, you may have to lead me/us a bit. I didn't see any mention of after-market part failures, or a comparison of stock vs after-market parts, but maybe I just missed that stuff -- it happens when I read a screen.
Walt Sherrill
Member
What they posted on the website was a release talking about the STATE POLICE TEST REQUIREMENTS and also the NATO acceptance. There were two topics in that one news release. The tests were NOT NATO-related tests; the very stiff requirements were for the Czech State Police acceptance requirements.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't have confidence, only that the tests were not for NATO.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't have confidence, only that the tests were not for NATO.
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