CZ vs Sig

[schmeky]

I have been shooting handguns for over 25 years, I reload, and appreciate a well made, reliable pistol, especially when the price is good.

My original point was not to bash Sig's, they are without a doubt some of the finest firearms ever made, if not the finest. I was contemplating buying one in the next several months to add to my collection of great shooters.

But, after handling, examining, and shooting the Sig, I starting questioning spending money on a gun that, at least in my hands, doesn't shoot any better, handle, or feel significantly superior than my CZ-75.

On the contrary, if I owned a Sig, THEN shot a CZ, I would most likely buy a CZ since they are priced competitively for what you get.

We are the winners here, since both are truly excellent guns.

For an experienced shooter to bash a CZ is incomprehensible. I would have to surmise such an individual has never shot or owned a CZ to do so. CZ's are some of the most copied pistols in the world and I have great respect for Jeff Cooper.

 

[robertbank]

I would like to know what some of you think the relationship between "Retail Price" and cost of manufacturing is.

I would suggest to those who think paying more gets you more you re-think your position. Aside from wage differentails between the Czech Republic and Germany that does go to cost of manufacturing, we have little things like marketing, consumer demand, perceived view in the marketplace of the product and manufacturers set entry price point for product.

Would you all feel better of CZ increased the retail price of their guns by $400US. Would that make them shoot better? If Homeland security bought CZ 75BD's where would the retail price go? Up because demand from H.S. wannabees would increase demand or would CZ increase their advertising, get a huge increase in magazine write-ups and set the price of their products higher to make more money?

Both are excellent pistols. I just paid $400Cdn more for a Tanfoglio L model over the CZ-SP-01 and Sig because I prefer the CZ design and wanted a gun that worked in IPSC and IDPA. I don't care for the Sig design. Stupid consumers and their irrational thinking. Now I want a SP-01 as well.

Take Care

 

[Mayo]

Some seem to have a problem with math---just an example---if you pay $400 for a CZ and $600 for a SIG, then 3 years later you sell the CZ for $200 and $400 for the SIG---where did it end up costing you any more? So for those of you(not all) whos ONLY gripe is "I like the SIG but CZ will do for the difference in price", rethink the math.

 

[Mayo]

As for the differences that I already said there is more IMO----

Slide doesn't cycle as smoothly
SA has some take up and there is some travel
Ejection shoots brass everywhere
The fit and finish is nowhere near a SIG. The CZ I had and others have had to polish the feed ramp due to roughness. The sights(out of the box) were offset and the factory glow in the dark sights aren't as good. After a couple thousand rounds the slide catch had to be replaced. Finally the barrel wasn't very good and I would recommend replacing it with a Bar-Sto for example.

Bottom line is it isn't up to par with a SIG more money or less.

 

[The Drew]

Again, anybody that does head to head comparisons rates the SIG higher(except in price) so it isn't as good because it's close. Only arguement is in price and that shouldn't be an option.

There are many reasons IMO the CZ isn't as good and needs to upgrade---
1. No decocker
2. The recoil spring guide rod is made of PLASTIC
3. Phillips head screws make it look
4. The magazine brake is an unwanted/uneeded feature
5. Trigger not as good

1. Depends on what model... The 75BD has a decocker, so does the P01, the PCR and certain models of the SP01...

2. So what? a steel one can be had for $20 if you really think it's necessary

3. $2 set of slot head screws change this.

4. this is can be fixed in about 60 seconds and no $ spent on parts.

5. The trigger can be made to be every bit as good, The most you'd have to spend on this is about $100 from a good smith. Short of that, swapping out the mainspring for a lighter one ($7) gets a MUCH smoother DA pull.

So If you want to compare apples to apples, compare the 75BD to the SIG, then consider that a friend of mine just bought a new BD with tritium sights for $319 Add $30 for the said parts and you've got a great service pistol for $350

Even at $600 for the SIG, it isn't worth $250 to me to have a little better trigger...

 

[cookekdjr]

Mayo,
I agree that the fit and finish of SIGs is better than CZ's, but that does not always mean better performance. It reflects a different philosophy and approach to gun-making. The SIG is more refined. The CZ is more durable.
By the way, I did not factor in price in my comparison. I believe, even at the same price, CZ's stand head to head with SIG's. I think a P-01 is every bit as good as a p228. Maybe better. The CZ-75B is every bit as good as the p226. Actually, the CZ's will probably out-last the SIG's, especially if you use +p+ ammo. Never heard of a CZ's slide cracking from +p+ ammo...can't say the same for the p226.
Don't get me wrong, I love SIGs, and usually prefer them. But they are not better. They are different. Call one BMW and one Mercedes, whatever, they both represent the best you can buy. JMO.
-David

 

[Ash]

Mayo, you need to work on your math. CZ's generally retain their value very well. That $350-$400 CZ-75 will sell, used, for $300. Yep, that's a 15-25% drop in value. That compares to your 33% drop in value for the Sig. And, other than the SIG 210, which is WAY too expensive for what you get, as nice as they are, there are no SIGs available with the cocked and locked feature. For someone who seeks cocked and locked, the SIG can't hold a candle to CZ, to paraphrase you. Want C&L? Don't waste your time looking for a SIG. Won't happen.

SIG's are fine pistols, but your arguments are weak and not well-reasoned. You need to try again. The finish on most CZ's are equal to SIG's. Sorry, just one of those things called a fact. The SIG's finish is no more durable than CZ. Indeed, arguably the finish on CZ's is actually better.

Now, milling on CZ's is rough inside, but, uh, that matters in what way? Does the intake manifold on your car bother you because you can easily see the mold lines and roughness from the sand casting? Fit on an average CZ is as good as fit on the average SIG. There is no slop, no play, no rattling on a CZ, just as there is none on the SIG.

Now, some CZ's have rougher triggers than the SIG. My two 75's, 82, and 40P have smooth triggers. My 85 compact is somewhat gritty. 4 outta 5. SIGs may be better than that, but are they 50% more gun? They cost 50% more.

SIGs are not more reliable, more accurate, nor more durable than a CZ. Tell me more about the candle that CZ's can't hold to a SIG? You like a SIG? Fine by me, they are excellent handguns. But, you exaggerate when you mention wick-based lighting solutions.

Ash

 

[antsi]

---quote-----------
I really don't understand these types of pissing contests????

Why do these debates rage? Everyone makes their choice based on a personal aesthetic. Why do so many people feel the need to justify why they paid more or less for one brand or another.

If you are happy with your choice say so. I just don't understand why the need to put down another members choice in order to justify yours.
--------------------

+1

I have both SIG and CZ in my collection. I have to admit I like the SIG's a little better, but that's mostly personal preference. If I was on a budget and needed to wrench the most value from every dollar, I'd go with the CZ.

The one thing where I do agree with Mayo is the sights. If I was going to use my CZ as my carry piece, I do think I'd want to put different sights on it.

The real question here is which gun the original poster prefers. If he really likes the SIG a lot better, then he should get it. If he doesn't, he should stick with his CZ.

Someone once said that the reason academic arguments between university professors get so vehement is because the stakes are so small. I think something like that is going on here. The quality differences between a SIG and CZ are minimal if they exist at all, and the only thing separating one from the other is one man's preference versus another's. There's really nothing objective to argue about here - and that's probably why the argument gets heated.

 

[hurrakane212]

Ash... C&L

Ash, before someone says it in a smart@$$ way... since SIG makes a 1911 then they DO have C&L...~Nathan

 

[Stasher1]

Some seem to have a problem with math---just an example---if you pay $400 for a CZ and $600 for a SIG, then 3 years later you sell the CZ for $200 and $400 for the SIG---where did it end up costing you any more?

Mayo, where are these $200 CZ's you speak of?

 

[skers69]

I love sigs...but

I have a p226 in 9mm. Love the gun. With Hogue finger grips it fits my hands perfectly. I have shot thousands of rounds through this gun...no failures at all.
Now...If I were to get another auto loader I am fairly certin I will get a CZ. Why. The quality of these guns are on par with sigs. I want to expand my gun collection. They fit my hand as well as my sig. Capicity is similar to my sig.

So in the end who cares. If you like the sig...spend the extra money and get the sig.
If you like the cz. Get the cz.
If I was to have to choose which to carry it would be the sig.

I plan on having both in my collection someday.

 

[schmeky]

Originally Posted by Mayo:

As for the differences that I already said there is more IMO----

1. Slide doesn't cycle as smoothly
2. SA has some take up and there is some travel
3. Ejection shoots brass everywhere
4. The fit and finish is nowhere near a SIG. The CZ I had and others have had to polish the feed ramp due to roughness. The sights(out of the box) were offset and the factory glow in the dark sights aren't as good. After a couple thousand rounds the slide catch had to be replaced.
5. Finally the barrel wasn't very good and I would recommend replacing it with a Bar-Sto for example.


Mayo,

I am a former engineer and I hold a U.S. Patent (on a mechanical device). I have examined a CZ next to Sig. According to your description(s), CZ's are dangerous junk.

#1 - I disagree
#2 - Yes, in some cases
#3 - Not mine
#4 - Again, I disagree
#5 - What ? The barrel is no good!! It's hammer forged, and mine shoots one hole groups at defensive ranges.

Be open minded, variety is the spice of life, Sigs and CZ's are some good spice.

 

[CraigJS]

I wonder if certain posters have ever shot a CZ? I wasn't somewhat certain until post 29 that a Sig had been handled..

 

[Northslope Nimrod]

For the money.....CZ is the better gun.

If they were the same price, I'd get the Sig.

 

[f4t9r]

well i quess no one will ever buy a SIg again now that we know that a CZ is just as good or better. I do alot of shows and I do not see people giving close to what a Cz cost new for a used piece. Really clean used gun in CZ about 250. A Sig has built a great rep on its guns and the price is what the market bears. Maybe we should all get Hi-points , is a CZ really worth the extra 300 dollars.(argue that for awhile)
Cz and SIG are nice guns , get the one you want and if price matters to you get the CZ or save more money and get the SIG.

 

[Redhat]

Will anyone who knows stand-up and say SiG's are :

More Accurate
Ergonomic
Reliable

I've shot both and no way would I trade my CZ 75B .40 for a SiG.

Bore axis too high
Over Built (too fat) looks to square
Don't like the location of the decocker, but I suupose you can get used to it
W-A-Y over-priced, I guess you gotta pay for all that polishing on the inside of the slide.
And I could be wrong but isn't the SiG slide stamped or rolled or something other than machined?

YMMV

 

[LoadedDrum]

Things I have noticed between my SP01 and P226.

Sig has a smoother trigger pull
Sig has better finish
Sig is easier to find accessories for
Sig is easier to rack the slide on

CZ has a shorter trigger pull
CZ is much easier to shoot well
CZ does not suffer from muzzle flip the way a Sig does
CZ balances better

 

[Juna]

My brother had a Sig P228 and P226. I like both of those guns a lot. They're very nice guns.

I have a CZ 75 BD. I love it. It's ergonomically superior, IMO, to most guns on the market (including Sig, IMO). The accuracy of my CZ is as good or better than that of a Sig. The triggers on Sigs are nice, but I'm perfectly fine with my CZ trigger, as well (it's broken in well).

is the Sig worth $700+ to the CZ's sub-$400.00 price?

In short, I don't think so. You can get a CZ for less than $300 if you buy a lightly used one. But even new, I think the PCR is one of the best CCW guns on the market, period (including Sigs, etc.). I also like the HK P7, but that's like a $1200 gun.

You said the CZ fits your hand better and you perform just as well (if not better) with it than you do with the Sig, so I think your decision is already made. Why spend another $300 just for the name? You like the C&L capability, and you're familiar with the platform since you already have a CZ 75. You could also CCW your CZ 75, but it's larger and significantly heavier than the PCR.

Just my $.02.

 

[antsi]

---quote-------
And I could be wrong but isn't the SiG slide stamped or rolled or something other than machined?
---------------

Older 226's, 220's, 228's, and 225's have the stamped carbon steel slides. New 226's and all 229's and 239's have slides that are machined from stainless steel. The stainless slides were introduced when guns were designed for 40 SW and 357 SIG. But there's nothing wrong with the stamped ones - some people actually prefer them.

 

[Mayo]

For the money.....CZ is the better gun.

If they were the same price, I'd get the Sig




Once again, there is the rub. Read most posts regarding both and it comes down to money. Most would choose the SIG if = in price---so obviously people can see a difference. spend more up front and get more in return + a better overall gun
In fact lay out a SIG and CZ and let someone choose 1 gun for free and see the SIG go 2-1!

 

[robertbank]

Mayo

Heck if it was free I would pick up the Sig in a heart beat because there is always somebody out there who has read all the magazines and would pay top dollar for it. With what I got for the Sig I could buy a new CZ and spend the difference on powder, primers and bullets to keep me going for a year.

Take Care

 

[Mayo]

I guess you better hold on to the CZ forever and never sell, otherwise you'll get much less then selling the SIG. Again you pay more upfront but get more when you sell so the price isn't a factor in this equation.
People would choose the SIG because "overall" it is a better gun. That's what I do like about experts who do rate guns without concern for price--such as a Chuck Taylor, who rate the SIG above all others. No agenda, no concern for price etc...just plain better.

 

[Mayo]

I would pick up the Sig in a heart beat because there is always somebody out there who has read all the magazines ...


Funny, all these magazines must be saying the same thing as me then huh?!

 

[Mayo]

Let me end this on a final note. I like the CZ overall and think it is a fine gun. I don't think it is as good overall as the SIG and as I said the "major" arguement for those who choose the CZ isn't that it is better in any way---only that it is as good for the money spent. Well I already showed that you pay more upfront but get back more in the end. Your not talking about a $500 difference here. Spend the extra and get the best--IMO. Anybody that prefers the CZ is fine with me---just don't justify any comparison based on price.

 

[stiletto raggio]

Maybe I'm a rarity, but I don't sell my guns often. I own/have owned dozens and have sold exactly five, and only because I did not like or need them any more. I am young and I plan on shooting my guns to pieces.

Does price enter the equation? Sure. I would venture to say that most people on this board have to earn their money. HOWEVER, I have several guns that are more expensive than the most expensive Sigs and many guns that are roughly equal in cost. I own no Sigs. I do not think they are bad guns, and they do have good fit and finish and very pleasing lines. As a company, Sig does a great job of reading the market and reacting to consumer desires. However, I can honestly say that, were a Sig 220 and a CZ 97B put in front of me for the same price, I'd buy the CZ. Same for 226 versus 75/85, 228 versus P01 etc.

Now, I may be full of crap, I may not. It is the internet. You'll never know, but I do, and I feel great with my 97B and an SP-01 on the way.