CZ75-B with Wolff Springs question

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I recently purchased two Wolff mainsprings for my CZ-75B. I got the 14lb (factory recommended) and a 16lb spring.

I have noticed that after inserting the spring and racking the slide several times and then removing the barrel, the spring and guiderod are on an 'angle'. What I mean is - - the spring is no longer making a straight line from guide rod to the muzzle end and kinda appears bunched either up or down. I assume this is occuring because the spring is longer than the original.

This occurs with both springs and I even after about 200 shots through both.

Should I be concerned? Is something not normal here? I know the spring that came with the CZ always was 'stright' from guiderod to muzzle end.

Thank You,
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[stretcharmstrong]

I think you mean the "recoil" spring not the mainspring.

Anyway, the spring should settle in nicely after a short while. The slight amount of "bunching" shouldn't effect the operation and is normal for a new wolff recoil spring. I had a similar instance w/my CZ 85C and a wolff 14# spring.

 

[Bren]

Same thing happened to me and the spring bunches up because it is too long. I also had the very first malfunction with the pistol when I first put the spring in. I think Wolf screwed up somewhere and also heard the same on a BHP.

14lbs is too light and Mike at CZ recommends 16lbs for an all round weight while others go as high as 18lbs with warm loads.

 

[MoNsTeR]

I also have a 16lb spring that's too long. At first it felt very rough, but it smoothed out after a hundred rounds or so, though it didn't shorten appreciably.

Anyway after reading about recoil spring tuning over at the brianenos.com forums, I put the factory spring back in. Long story short: heavier recoil springs increase felt recoil.

 

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As an FYI - I purchased the wolff springs because I had stovepipes about every 30 rounds with my CZ75b and a CLEAN extractor. So far (about 200 rnds) I have had zero stovepipes with my 16lb spring.

I know what Monster means when he says it feels 'rough' - good way to describe it. However, if you guys think that it will not cause me a problem, then I'll leave it in (although the bunching angle will make me nervous

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[Walt Sherrill]

The 16 lb spring is too long. So is the 14 lb. spring. So, too, would be a 12 lb spring, when its first installed. They're all too long when they're new. They'll compress a little in a relatively short period.

If your gun shoots properly, and the spent casings land relatively nearby (not in the next county), don't worry about it -- and keep shooting.

 

[PCRCCW]

First off...because CZ's come with a 14 # (supposedly )
recoil spring...that is not what the factory recommends...Mike @ CZUSA will pass that on with LIABILITY in mind.
You can use up to an 18-20# in the fullsize guns and go higher in
the compacts and 97.

Wolff springs didnt screw up anything........their Tech guy is one of the best in the world.

The springs are longer than the OEM by a tiny bit....and after shooting even 5 rnds through your gun, the spring will take a set or relax a little and shorten up.

If it kinks when installing it...just get it in there anyway you can.
Now rack the slide a couple of times and take your slide off again.
Now turn the guide rod where it meets the barrel. You should find a spot where the spring wont kind anymore...just do this when ever you assemble your gun and youre cool.

You will have similar spring issues in damn near any gun you respring.....Ive swapped out every spring in every gun Ive owned in the past 10 years with Wolff springs and have very similar results in most.
Shoot well

 

[dleong]

Recoil Spring Kinks

It might be worth noting that, on the 9mm CZ 75B, the rear of the guide rod rests against the front of the barrel underlug only when the slide is removed from the frame. This is to facilitate disassembly. When the pistol is reassembled, the rear of the guide rod is released from the underlug and captured securely in the circular recess at the front of the "locking lugs" in the frame. This circular recess straightens the guide rod and unkinks the recoil spring. During the normal operation of the pistol, the barrel underlug never contacts the guide rod.

If your recoil spring kinks when you initially install it in the slide, it will straighten out when the slide is reattached to the frame. I have 22 lb. Wolff recoil springs in my 9mm 75B and 45ACP 97B (and also in my 40S&W 75B with a full-length guide rod), and they will do exactly that.

DL

 

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I just read that deleong had a 22lb recoil spring? That seems somewhat heavy (to me, an amateur). This now begs that question of what is the proper weight for the cz-75b. Is the 16lb spring that I just installed way too light?

Remember - I initially changed springs because of the stovepipe issue (which the 16lb spring appears to have solved for at least 200 rounds).

 

[tomkatz]

You can use up to an 18-20# in the fullsize guns and go higher in
the compacts and 97.
Do what pcrccw says to do in his post above, he knows of what he speaks......tom

 

[Bren]

Guys, I've been working on guns and changing springs for years and there IS something going on here!

Yes, new springs are longer when fresh but these are even longer and my CZ/EAA spring is still too long after many rounds fired and leaving the gun racked open for weeks. I had my first malfunction in my 1984 Pre B due to the drag in the spring because the CZ doesn't have a full length guide rod. I've heard of people having the same problem with BHP's being to long lately also. I have NEVER had this problem with either before!

I don't care what the tech guy at wolf says, they DID change something lately.

Also, I recieved a 3 coil BHP trigger spring in a 2 coil marked and sealed package and they had to send me the correct spring.

I also have gotten Ruger grips screws that were marked BHP from Hogue and it took about three calls and two shipments before they believed me! Finally they realized someone was packaging the screws wrong and Hogue himself sent me some free stuff for all the trouble.

So I say trust no one!

I know what is "right" from installing many of the same springs in the past and maybe the EAA springs have changed or they are going to a one size fits all in some cases.

2 cents, Bren

 

[dleong]

I just read that deleong had a 22lb recoil spring? That seems somewhat heavy (to me, an amateur). This now begs that question of what is the proper weight for the cz-75b. Is the 16lb spring that I just installed way too light?

That is correct, sir. I have 22 lb. recoil springs installed in three of my CZ pistols.

When I acquired my first CZ (the 9mm 75B), I also bought the "Wolff Recoil Calibration Pak" that contained 5 recoil spring ranging in strength from 14 lbs. to 22 lbs. The instructions in the Pak indicate that the correct spring to use is the heaviest one that will still allow the pistol to cycle reliably. As it turned out, the heaviest spring in the Pak (22 lb.) cycled the 75B perfectly with my lukewarm handloads. The felt recoil was improved (not reduced, but improved) considerably and the empty cases were landing just a couple of feet to my right, instead of being flung two stalls away as was the case with the original factory spring.

When I subsequently acquired the 40S&W 75B and 45ACP 97B, I discovered that they, too, worked best with 22 lb. recoil springs. In fact, judging from the distance brass is being thrown from the 40S&W 75B, I'd say that it could probably benefit from a 24 lb. recoil spring. Unfortunately, the heaviest spring that Wolff currently makes for the CZ is rated at 22 lbs.

The big disadvantage with 22 lb. spring is the additional effort required to rack the slide. The rear cocking serrations on the CZ are rather sharp and have drawn blood from my knuckle in the past. I now drape a small rag over the serrations when I rack the slide.

With regard to the 16 lb. spring you installed in your CZ, I do not think it is too light if you are satisfied with the improvement it provides over the factory 14 lb. spring.

DL

 

[wingman]

So I say trust no one!

Heed these words gents, quality control
in "most" companies now is just bad.

 

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Factory 14lb spring.??
It may be 'rated' with 14lbs - but I tell you that after I installed the 16lb spring it sure as hell felt like more than a 2lb difference when I racked the slide.

It felt like double the pull.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

When Wolff measured the factory 14 lb. springs, they said they were closer to 12 lb. That seemed reasonable, as I found the 16 lb springs to be SUBSTANTIALLY harder to rack than the factory 14...

 

[MikeK]

Thanks for this thread. I was shooting my CZ75B a couple of weeks ago with 147 gr. FMJ ammo and was getting stovepipes almost every magazine. Never happened with the 115 or 124 gr. ammo. It has about 1500 rounds through it and I was thinking of replacing the recoil spring. Now I'm better informed.

 

[MoNsTeR]

Am I the only one who can't understand how a heavier recoil spring could improve ejection? Slower slide velocity when the case contacts the ejector combined with higher slide velocity on the return cycle ought to produce a greater probability of stovepipes.

 

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I cannot say how it improves extraction as I am a relative newbie to pistol modification. However, it does appear to work. I was truly at my wits end with the CZ75b before changing the spring. After changing the spring, I can see what everyone is bragging about. Can't explain it - but go figure

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[BevrFevr]

Monster

Maybe some users are unfamiliar with what a stovepipe actually is. I have never had a stovepipe with my cz but I have had a few ftf's and I think with a stronger spring this would go away.

I could be completely wrong about this though.

-bevr

 

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I define a stove pipe as:

When the brass case becomes lodged in the extraction 'hole' of the slide. The brass case locks in the hole vertically and prevents the slide from coming all the way forward.

Is this correct???

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[BevrFevr]

yup!

-bevr

 

[Bren]

In general, a lighter spring (within reason) will have less felt recoil and will help a limp wrister and ejection.

A heavier spring will help with feeding but will have more of a push. The right spring will eject your favorite load about 5-7 feet.

Mike @ CZ recommends 16lbs for all round and thats what I use with a buff. For lots of hot loads like +P+, I would use a 17-18 and a buff. I use a 20lbs in the EAA 10mm but it has a thicker slide. Bren

 

[PCRCCW]

A lighter spring help with less recoil????????????????????????

Actually Ill disagree with this one..... A lighter spring will increase recoil impulse/slide speed and cause a "slam" or a hard initial hit unless used with a shock buff...it will then send the slide home with a little speed and doesnt help if you have FTF's.

A heavier spring softens or takes away the "slam" and creates more muzzle roll/lift instead of the hit. And definately helps with the FTF's......

You are correct in the 5-7 ft for ejected brass.....tune your "usual" rounds with this and different spring weights in mind.

My rule is use the heaviest spring I can without malfunction.

On my fullsize CZ's I use 16-18#'s....the 16 with a buff...
My PCR has a 20# unit in it and works flawlessly..............

Shoot well..............................

 

[MoNsTeR]

Nope, lighter = less recoil, heavier = more.

A thought experiment will be helpful. Imagine your gun has infinitely long slide rails with zero weight, and a slide whose rearward travel is also unlimited. When you fire this gun, how much recoil will you feel? The answer is almost none, because the vast majority of the "equal and opposite reaction" will be absorbed by the uninhibited rearward motion of the slide (which will eventually dissipate all that energy through friction).

Now imagine a similarly fictitious gun which, instead of a recoil spring, has a locking switch. You rack the slide to chamber a round, then flip the switch to lock the breech, so when the gun fires the slide will not move at all. How much recoil will be dissipated by the mechanism of this gun? None, it will all be transmitted to you.

Now in the real world, we have wear to consider, and feeding as well. Shooting full power 10mm loads with a 9# spring is likely to shorten the life of your gun appreciably, and a 5# spring doesn't have the energy to properly strip a new round from the magazine. Now, what group do we know of that knows about the wear of tens of thousands of rounds, needs their guns to feed reliably, and also happens to care a whole lot about taming recoil? IPSC shooters. And guess what, they all shoot 9#-12# springs. They deal with wear by using shock buffers, which may or may not be suitable for more "serious" purposes. But one thing's certain, if heavier springs equated to lower felt recoil and greater controllability, they'd be using them.

If you're skeptical, give it a shot! That's what I did. I went to the range with my Dan Wesson .45, and started shooting hardball-level loads with an 18.5# spring. Then I swapped in the factory 16lb spring and shot some more. Surprise!, I could shoot faster and perceived less recoil with the lighter spring. Just to be sure, I tried this test with my CZ 85 Combat as well. I shot with a 16# Wolff spring, then with the factory whatever-it-is# spring, same result. Next I'll compare the factory and 18.5# springs in my Hi-Power, and I expect similar results.

 

[PCRCCW]

Monster,

I will respectfully disagree again.....and hear me out. Your "opposite ends of the spectrum" analogies are good.

But they fail to do one thing.....be realistic. Recoil is nothing but transferred energy....in one analogy, you have no energy transferred to the shooter and in the second, nothing but energy transferred to the shooter.

I did the experiment you discuss years ago...my findings went the other way, just MY PERCEPTION.

What we are all failing to mention or acknowledge is changing recoil spring weights really doesnt make recoil less intense or more intense...IT MERELY CHANGES HOW ITS TRANSFERRED TO THE SHOOTER! And that changes that shooters perception of recoil.

In my book a slower moving slide that adds to muzzle roll up or lift is "less recoil" to me........
The "slam" of the lesser spring weight is "more recoil" in my perception........good, bad or indifferent......doesnt matter.
Its just my perception...as is yours.

The only things that can literally effect both percieved and actual recoil... is bullet weight, burn rate of powder, barrel length and gun weight.....

To each their own.......to me a slower moving slide with a rolling muzzle offers less percieved recoil.
Much like 45 shooters who shoot +P+ 9mm and arent used to the sharp snap it gives them...............

Its all perception. Shoot well