DA/SA Question

[Good Ol' Boy]

This is probably going to seem like a noob question but since I'm not too proud to ask questions I don't know the answer to, here goes.

Given that all of my experience with semi's has been striker, DAO or SA, I have a simple question about DA/SA pistols. Are you able to manually cock the hammer for the first shot on a DA/SA, so that it's essentially SA from the start? Or do you have to always deal with the DA first pull?

Does this vary from one pistol to another?

 

[.455_Hunter]

"Most" DA/SA guns with a hammer spur can be cocked manually for first shot SA fire. Even some spurless guns can also be cocked with some extra manipulation.

 

[trainershawn]

Varies from one pistol to another. My Ruger P89 could be cocked and shot SA. But I don't have any hammer fired guns anymore. I have the best of both worlds, for me anyway. I like striker fired DA/SA guns.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Just off-hand, I can't think of a DA/SA hammer fired pistol that can't be cocked to SA for the first shot.

I have to admit that I don't pay a lot of attention to the ability as thumb cocking a DA/SA pistol on the draw is usually a bit awkward and much slower, without much advantage to an accurate first shot

 

[Ironicaintit]

I'm not a vast well of experience, but I've never seen one that can't be operated as a SAO.
It's as indicated; DA/SA

 

[NWcityguy2]

The hammer can always be cocked back, either by the spur, or if not, just by racking the slide. That is why in the movies people always rack their slide at the last second before getting into a gun fight, so they don't have to fight the long DA trigger pull on their pistol (kidding about the last part).

 

[Tallball]

DA/SA is my preference, and I could thumb-cock all of the ones I've ever tried.

 

[kozak6]

Racking the slide cocks the hammer. You only have to deal with the double action pull if you decock it.

Pretty much all DA/SA pistols work like this.

And if you'd like, some DA/SA pistols even have a safety that allows the pistol to be carried in Condition 1 (cocked with a round in the chamber, safety on), bypassing the DA pull entirely.

 

[Jim Watson]

I saw a guy with a Sig Sauer P229 at IPSC matches thumb-cock the hammer for every string. He wasn't fast, but he did not have to learn the "crunch tick." Which is not all that hard. Ernest Langdon wrote a treatise on the matter "Fear Not the Double Action Shot."

Some of the compact Smith 3rd Gen have spurless hammers. I have seen such hammers on autos and revolvers serrated so you could start the hammer back with the trigger, catch it with the thumb, and pull it back to full cock. I don't consider that safe practice.

 

[BILLG]

If you can't fire the first shot DA and transition to Sa for the next shot you need another action type.Me I prefer the DA/SA pistols.

 

[Eugen]

Op, all good info above. I prefer DA/SA myself.

Just to add to the discussion, I believe that there are some J-frame wheel guns (in DAO) that can't be thumb cocked.

 

[Winkman822]

Everyone else has been on point as far as the ability to start with single action either by racking the slide or thumbing the hammer back. I will add, however, that some DA/SA guns have bobbed hammers that are not terribly easy to thumb back manually (HK USP Compact is the stand out.)

 

[pblanc]

I have not seen a hammer-fired DA/SA pistol with a bobbed hammer although some might exist or have been modified in this way. There are certainly double action revolvers with bobbed hammers as was noted.

I know of one DA/SA pistol in which the hammer cannot be manually cocked, the Walther P99 because it is striker-fired and has no hammer. After the slide is racked to chamber a round, the P99 is in SA mode but it has a decocker and is typically decocked to DA mode for carry. After decocking the P99 one would have to either rack the slide again or fire the pistol DA to return to SA mode. But that pistol is rather a special case.

 

[X-Rap]

IMO the principal drawback to DA pistols over DA Revolvers is that once fired the pistol remains cocked with the SA trigger.
I believe this is one of the reasons why it has fallen out of favor in the LEO crowd.
Sure there is the decocker but once shots are fired I'd personally avoid dropping the hammer for anything other than to shoot again or because the threat was gone.

 

[Winkman822]

I have not seen a hammer-fired DA/SA pistol with a bobbed hammer although some might exist or have been modified in this way. There are certainly double action revolvers with bobbed hammers as was noted.

I know of one DA/SA pistol in which the hammer cannot be manually cocked, the Walther P99 because it is striker-fired and has no hammer. After the slide is racked to chamber a round, the P99 is in SA mode but it has a decocker and is typically decocked to DA mode for carry. After decocking the P99 one would have to either rack the slide again or fire the pistol DA to return to SA mode. But that pistol is rather a special case.

It's been a good while since I've owned it, but I recall my USP Compact .40 V1 having a bobbed hammer. It was DA/SA with a decocking/safety control lever.

 

[guyfromohio]

IMO the principal drawback to DA pistols over DA Revolvers is that once fired the pistol remains cocked with the SA trigger.
I believe this is one of the reasons why it has fallen out of favor in the LEO crowd.
Sure there is the decocker but once shots are fired I'd personally avoid dropping the hammer for anything other than to shoot again or because the threat was gone.

Say what? The decocker drops the hammer safely on most. Except maybe the CZ75s.

 

[Hangingrock]

I know of one DA/SA pistol in which the hammer cannot be manually cocked, the Walther P99 because it is striker-fired and has no hammer. After the slide is racked to chamber a round, the P99 is in SA mode but it has a decocker and is typically decocked to DA mode for carry. After decocking the P99 one would have to either rack the slide again or fire the pistol DA to return to SA mode. But that pistol is rather a special case.

Its been awhile (more like a long-long time) but If I recall correctly the SW99-45ACP collaboration between Walther and S&W there are three trigger modes SA - AS & DA. The AS was Anti-Stress for the lack of a better description along single action trigger press. I have one example in the safe but its probably a decade since I've handled it.

 

[mavracer]

Some of the compact Smith 3rd Gen have spurless hammers. I have seen such hammers on autos and revolvers serrated so you could start the hammer back with the trigger, catch it with the thumb, and pull it back to full cock. I don't consider that safe practice.

The compact 3rd Gen Smiths' do indeed have bobbed serrated hammers, but no need to pull the trigger to cock the hammer as when you drop the hammer with the safety (or decocker on the guns so equipped) the hammer srops in a half cock notch with serrations exposed.

 

[Blacksmoke]

When I owned a Walther P88 which has a double stack magazine with a fat grip for me, I found the DA trigger a bit hard to manage. So, I usually cocked the first round by thumbing the hammer back with the off hand. Did not have that problem with the P5 which is single stacked. Fortunately, both had manual de-cockers if that first round was not to be fired.

 

[herrwalther]

I know of one DA/SA pistol in which the hammer cannot be manually cocked, the Walther P99 because it is striker-fired and has no hammer. After the slide is racked to chamber a round, the P99 is in SA mode but it has a decocker and is typically decocked to DA mode for carry. After decocking the P99 one would have to either rack the slide again or fire the pistol DA to return to SA mode. But that pistol is rather a special case.

Mostly correct. A P99 in DA can be returned to SA by pulling the slide back about 1/4" instead of cycling the slide the entire way, losing the chambered round in the process.

 

[Panzerschwein]

On the Makarov PM, you technically can leave the safety at the off position and on the draw, cock the hammer for a first single action shot:

In the original Soviet manual, this was listed as an option for those who prefer a lighter first pull. I prefer to leave the safety off but don't bother with pulling the hammer back first. I'm a revolver shooter by trade so the first double action pull is no issue for me, and in fact I appreciate it's deliberate nature to prevent an accidental discharge under high stress or during movement.

 

[Deaf Smith]

This is probably going to seem like a noob question but since I'm not too proud to ask questions I don't know the answer to, here goes.

Given that all of my experience with semi's has been striker, DAO or SA, I have a simple question about DA/SA pistols. Are you able to manually cock the hammer for the first shot on a DA/SA, so that it's essentially SA from the start? Or do you have to always deal with the DA first pull?

Does this vary from one pistol to another?

To properly use a DA/SA in DA for the first shot just have the front sight just a bit high in the notch (IPSC calls it 'shooting out of the notch') for the first shot. Then once the gun is cocked, use the sights in the normal fashion.

Now as for first shot SA, use your off hand to cock the gun as you bring it up and start thrusting it forward (if you are wise, your off hand is at the chest level already and mealy scoops under the gun as the strong hand rotates the gun toward the target after drawing.)

Deaf

 

[Plan2Live]

Sig P239, 5 shots, 7 yards. All shots fired in DA mode. Yeah, that DA trigger stroke is hard to master.

 

[X-Rap]

Say what? The decocker drops the hammer safely on most. Except maybe the CZ75s.

I'm not commenting on the safety of the decocker although I suspect most wouldn't do it with the muzzle against their foot. My comment was to dropping the hammer during a gunfight that may not be finished yet.
Certainly you can go back to the less desirable DA pull or use the safety feature of the lever if it has the option.
It is only my opinion but I'm not alone in my preference of Strikers first and SA 1911 style second with the DA trailing behind.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

So from what I'm reading all hammer fired DA/SA pistols have a decocker, or a "safety" that decocks the gun?

Otherwise how could you rack the slide to chamber a round and get a DA first pull?


I appreciate all of the responses so far.