DA/SA Question

[Ironicaintit]

the difference here is that you use the terms for auto only.
Whereas I am applying the shorthand to pistols...revolver or self feeding

 

[Walt Sherrill]

SA, DA, and SA/DA are generally well-understood functional categories, but limiting it to those three types of actions ignores a fourth: "modified DA" (or just as correctly, "modified SA").

The "modified SA or modified DA" term isn't widely used, but it (or some other description) is needed. With this action, slide movement (when chambering the first round, or when firing a followup SA shot) partially charges the striker or hammer spring and the trigger pull finishes the spring "charging" process and releases the hammer or striker.

Glocks (and most modern striker-fired guns) work like that, as do some DA/SA guns, like the 3rd Gen S&W semi-autos. All of these guns, while seemingly conventional DA/SA mechanisms, don't have a re-strike capability, which means that if the trigger pull alone doesn't ignite the primer, you can't pull the trigger again to retry.

That trigger isn't a true DA trigger -- the slide has to move, too! If the primer doesn't go off, you just do the normal clearance drill as taught -- which some instructors recommend regardless of the action type!.

Most folks don't know the difference, and as long as the primer ignites there is little functional difference. (The trigger pull on some of these "slide-assisted" actions might be noticeably lighter than other DA/SA guns, and the trigger pull itself might be a bit shorter, as well -- as the pulled trigger doesn't have to do as much work!)

 

[Mike J]

DA/SA makes sense to me. It describes the fact that the first pull of the trigger is double action. once the first shot is fired & the slide has cycled any subsequent shots will be single action.
Things can be confusing though. I have a little Taurus that is actually SA/DA the first pull of the trigger is single action. If the round does not fire you have second strike capability with a double action trigger (does not matter to me as that is time for a tap, rack, bang anyway). Sadly the double action trigger is better than the single action. I wish that pistol was DAO.
My only DA/SA is an old Ruger P94. It is a safety model. I would much prefer if it was the decocker only version. While I am not against safeties in general I don't like slide mounted safeties that are up to fire. It just feels backwards.
As to the OP's question my Ruger can be thumb cocked if one desires. I think most hammer fired DA/SA pistols can though there may be some exceptions depending on model.

 

[Plan2Live]

Tap-Rack-Assess. We know that in many cases where a firearm is used for self defense just the mere presentation of the defender's firearm will cause the attacker to break off their attack. Considering that and considering the high likelihood you have a camera on you most anywhere you go these days, I cannot stress enough the concept of Tap-Rack-Asses vs Tap-Rack-Bang. If you drill Tap-Rack-Bang and your attacker ceases their attack or worse yet goes to a hands-up position in between Rack and Bang you might have a legal problem.

On the restrike capability topic, my Sig 239 has restrike capability and I added that to my clearance drill practice. It takes almost no time at all to pull the trigger a second time and anyone who has trained with a revolver should find that maneuver to be automatic.

 

[herrwalther]

Tap-Rack-Assess. We know that in many cases where a firearm is used for self defense just the mere presentation of the defender's firearm will cause the attacker to break off their attack. Considering that and considering the high likelihood you have a camera on you most anywhere you go these days, I cannot stress enough the concept of Tap-Rack-Asses vs Tap-Rack-Bang. If you drill Tap-Rack-Bang and your attacker ceases their attack or worse yet goes to a hands-up position in between Rack and Bang you might have a legal problem.

Just because someone has their hands up does not mean the threat has stopped. Even if a hostile target is running away, it is still a possible threat if he has a firearm stashed down an alley or a friend to bring back to a fight. I am not advocating a shoot until dead every time, however. Every shooting situation is different.

On the restrike capability topic, my Sig 239 has restrike capability and I added that to my clearance drill practice. It takes almost no time at all to pull the trigger a second time and anyone who has trained with a revolver should find that maneuver to be automatic.

Some of my firearms have second strike but it does not change my handling of them. The only time second strike is useful is a light strike on a primer. It does not help with other weapon malfunctions like failure to feed or fail to eject. So in my malfunction drills I still cycle the slide normally. The only thing second strike does for me is it makes dry fire practice at home easier since I am not racking a slide to reset a trigger every time.

 

[Plan2Live]

Just because someone has their hands up does not mean the threat has stopped.

True, but if you are caught on camera firing a round after the assailant is in a surrender posture it is going to shift more of the burden of proof over to you. Hence, assess.

The only time second strike is useful is a light strike on a primer.

True again. And in the three years I spent as a Range Officer on a public firing range, 4 years I spent teaching concealed weapons permit classes and numerous years I have spent shooting various firearms, with the exception of .22 rimfire, the vast majority of the rounds I have seen fail to fire on the first strike have fired when loaded back into a magazine or directly into the firing chamber and hit with a second strike. Hence, my recommendation to pull the trigger again and make that part of your training with DA hammer fired guns. If you practice a +1 sight picture and you have a stovepipe you'll see it and know to skip the restrike and go directly to the Tap-Rack clearance drill.