Dakota Arms - Soft on RKBA?

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HankB

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(I debated putting this in the "Rifles" column, but figure it's more political.)

I recently received the Fall 2005 copy of Dakota magazine, published by Dakota Arms to publicize their line of high-grade rifles and shotguns.

The magazine had an article about their new Scimitar rifle. The Scimitar is built on a Dakota 76 action with a 24” Lilja barrel, McMillan A-5 stock, Picatinny rail and Nightforce scope, a proprietary bedding system, removable bolt knob, detachable magazine, and other goodies. This rifle was a .308, but presumably other chamberings are available. It seemed to be a good performer, producing a 3.8” group at 600 yards.

Now on to Dakota's apparent politics . . . the article was penned by a retired LEO, and peppered with comments like:
“No, you can’t buy one . . .”
“ . . . sold only to law enforcement and the military.”
“If you want to know the price . . . you’ll need to produce a government purchase order.”

A couple of days before Thanksgiving, I sent Dakota an email asking why a bolt action rifle – not subject to any assault weapon, .50 BMG, or other bans, completely legal from New York to Hawaii, Alaska to Texas, and all points in between, is NOT available to John Q. Public.

I wanted to know their reason for this policy.

They ignored my email.

Judging by the inventory section of their magazine, they're eager to sell high-buck sporting firearms to regular folks, but not something that looks “tactical.” I have to conclude that they’re of the mindset that John Q. Public shouldn’t have certain types of guns . . . you know, the way some duck hunters or skeet shooters are fine with a ban on EBRs. (Note, I only said some.)

As for myself, when a company decides that, though 100% legal in all jurisdictions in the United States, certain firearms are “inappropriate” for me to own . . . I choose not to do ANY business with that company.

Period.
 
It's probably a marketing ploy - or they've got their heads where the light don't shine. I suspect the latter. I can't afford to do business with them, so you can rest assured I won't be buying one of their rifles anytime soon.
 
Edit: See post 6, below

Hmmm.

Dakota's Longbow is no longer on their site.

In the area of unconfirmed remarks we get this blurb from a GunsAmerica listing:
Dakota Longbow Tactical E.R. (T-76). New in 1997 and recently discontinued and no longer available to the public.

I take it the Scimitar is something along the lines of the Longbow but too good for the peasants?

I generally stay well clear of errornet rumors but this Dakota thing seems to have some legs. Time will tell.

Not like it'd be a big loss. BlaserSIG has no such compunction:
pic_rifle_blaser_lrs2.gif


Still, it would be mildly disturbing to learn your friends are in Exeter, NH and Germany whilst our Dakota friends let us down. If true, slaps the snot out of my nascent "Buy America" attitude.
:(
 
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HankB said:
A couple of days before Thanksgiving, I sent Dakota an email asking why a bolt action rifle – not subject to any assault weapon, .50 BMG, or other bans, completely legal from New York to Hawaii, Alaska to Texas, and all points in between, is NOT available to John Q. Public.

I wanted to know their reason for this policy.

They ignored my email.


HankB,

You're assuming an awful lot from a simple nonresponse to an email.... why don't you _call_ instead??

Maybe your email, for example, somehow ended up in their spam box and was overlooked.

In fact, gun companies are VERY poor in general at email responses; their workflow is not set up for it, it appears - Ruger, for example, recommends that you mail questions in.

Once you're talking with a specific person at a company, email might work. But sending email to something like a generic "[email protected]" address is not likely to get results at many companies.

Email support is especially terrible for a small co - some workers can spend all day just answering email and not getting any work done!



Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA
 
Hawk's Rumor Control

I called.

Per Richard at Dakota:

1. Longbow is not discontinued - it's special order and available. So much for the GunsAmerica seller's claim.

2. The Scimatar is available to the public. Disregard all indications to the contrary.

3. The Scimatar is removable box mag; Longbow is blind mag.

There's more but I forget.

Rumor quashed.

There was discussion about Scimatars going to LEO's only but that was, I take it, more a limited supply issue than a "cut off the serfs" issue. I have no problem with prioritizing shipments whatsoever but evidently even that's no longer on the table.
 
Hawk said:
2. The Scimatar is available to the public. Disregard all indications to the contrary. . . .Rumor quashed.
Hawk,

Thanks for the update . . . but as for unavailability of the Scimitar to the general public being a mere rumor, IMHO the repeated mentions of this in Dakota Arms' OWN magazine - right there in black and white - elevate the policy in question to several notches above mere "rumor." Especially when the author of the article writes that Dakota CEO Charlie Kokesh told him that the rifle ". . . would be sold only to law enforcement and the military."

Perhaps Dakota started to get a little negative feedback and backpedaled?
billwiese said:
You're assuming an awful lot from a simple nonresponse to an email.... why don't you _call_ instead??
They provided an email address to request info, so I used it - I've emailed various other firearms manufacturers and received responses without incident.
 
The Dakota guy I talked to said it was discussed and abandoned. The catalog evidently went to press before the current policy was in effect.

I don't doubt what it said - the rumor that's quashed is the "Dakota won't sell EBBR's (evil black bolt rifles) to civvies" rumor. Whether or not it was policy for a time sufficient for some marketing dude to do a "LEO only testimonial" doesn't much trouble me.

The thread implies Dakota IS soft on RKBA, not whether they discussed it or implemented it for some indeterminate period in the past. I've had brain flatulants before; we're all entitled. Sometimes stuff lands in print we'd rather forget.

"Backpedaled" may well be an accurate appraisal.

But I'm part of the thread now, so I've got an interest in accuracy as of NOW. As of 12/1/05, Dakota reports they have no "LEO only" policy in place.
 
Note that there are other, innocuous products that are not sold to the general public, just made for government contracts.

Arnold Schwarzenegger was what gave AM General the idea to market the Hummer, when he asked if they would sell him a HMMWV. Until then, there were no civilian channels by which to buy one.

When they were standard military issue, Jeeps on civilan dealer lots were not the same as their military counterparts. Frames, axles, battery voltages, etc. were often different, even when the vehicles appeared similar.

The MUTT (M-151 Vietnam-era "jeep" built by Ford) was never sold on the civilian market at all, and few of them are even in the hands of collectors. They were deemed unsafe for roads due to rollover issues, so surplus models were torch cut before sale like machine gun imports. The military doesn't have the same issues with liability lawsuits as the consumer market.

Just things to consider. Not that I'm buying a Dakota in the near future, but that's for other reasons.
 
Magazines are written by/edited by folks not always competent in the subject field. These folks are language arts and presentation majors, and in fact for a company like Dakota Arms these folks are probably in & out contract workers. This probably slipped by that way, somehow, in a review cycle.

I happen to _KNOW_ Dakota Arms' CEO, Charlie Kokesh - I was a young MIS/IT dude when I worked at his venture capital company, Technology Funding, in California - he was Managing General Partner/CEO.

Charlie is about as pro-gun as they come. And he's certainly smart enough (Harvard MBA on top of JD) to not wanna restrict his sales to limited markets.

Do you think Ronnie Barrett wants to just sell his 50BMGs to LE agencies/mil? No way. More money in the civvy market - no expensive support contracts, kiss-up-to-the-customer 24/7 service contracts, etc.
 
Based on how Dakota builds guns, they probably don't make them available to civilians because they can't even keep up with LEO/Mil demand; why accept the civi order and wind up with a bunch of people posting stupid flames on web sites about the long delay on the hand-built, high demand rifle that's been on back order for eons? :rolleyes:
 
billweise said:
I happen to _KNOW_ Dakota Arms' CEO, Charlie Kokesh . . . Charlie is about as pro-gun as they come.
That's good to hear, Bill . . . but next time you talk to him, please ask him if he ever told a "Stephen Helsley" (the author of the article I saw in Dakota magazine) that the rifle would only be sold to law enforcement and the military, since that's what Helsley wrote.

Let us know what his answer is.

(and as for Ronnie Barrett . . . by cutting off sales and support to CA .gov agencies, we all know where he stands. We'd be a lot better off if ALL gun and ammo makers followed his lead.)
 
I have two Dakota rifles, a 76 Classic and a Long Range Hunter, so I am glad to hear this is not their current policy. They make excellent rifles.
 
Dakota responded to my email:
There will be an announcement soon regarding retail sales to the general public.

We appreciate your input.

Regards,
Paulette
I'll be keeping my eyes open for this announcement. (Hmmm . . . I wonder if they heard from anyone else . . . ?)
 
Paulette was the one I talked to before I got switched over to Richard.

As long as I was on the phone, I gave 'em my address and the catalog and magazine showed up since I last posted. I can see where that article would twist one up - I'm glad I called first.

However, now that the stuff has shown up, I've gotta admit that SxS shotgun looks like a lot of gun for the money, imported action notwithstanding. I can feel the finances getting shifting around...

I only called to check on the "LEO only" issue; I have less than zero interest in the scimitar due to a severe case of ninja-tude burn-out. But that SxS looks so sweet.

Nice people. Classic product. Drats. How do I get myself into these things?

:cool:
 
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