Dallas cops get needed firearms by donation

[LAR-15]

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Dallas PD Gets 'High-Powered' Weapons Donation
Deborah Takahara
Reporting


(CBS 11 News) DALLAS The Dallas Police Department got something today that it's been wanting for a long time… a donation of high-powered, semi-automatic weapons.

Not many police departments have 50 caliber rifles. The Dallas Police Department just got some donated.

They are powerful and precise and the police department believes they will be helpful in stopping well-armed criminals.

They are the most powerful guns money can buy, but the DPD didn't have to spend a dime on them.

The Dallas Arms Collectors Association donated two 50-caliber rifles and 20 AR-15 assault rifles to the police department.

"These men and women who protect us and serve us everyday deserve the best possible equipment to do their job efficiently and safely, so at the end of their shift they get to go home to their loved ones,” said Don Raspante, Dallas Arms Collectors.

The AR-15 rifles will be issued to patrol officers. A move SWAT team member Lieutenant William Humphrey says evens the playing field.

"Very important for the patrol aspect to have that weapon system on the streets, just to counter the weapons that we're up against."

The 50-caliber rifles will be used by specially trained members of the SWAT team. According to experts the weapon is designed to shut down vehicles or large objects.

Police say the weapons could've ended several dangerous situations, like the truck chase thru downtown two years ago, and a hostage situation on Central Expressway just before Christmas.

We have seen well armed criminals outgun police several times in the past few years and while Dallas police hope they never have to use their new weapons, they are glad they have them.

"We may not have to use the tool in many, many years, or maybe even ever. But having a weapon like this in certain circumstances could be critical to community safety,” said Chief David Kunkle, Dallas Police Department.

The rifles donated to the police department today worth about $50,000.

The Dallas Arms Collectors Association hopes other organizations will come forward to donate money and equipment as well.

 

[AirForceShooter]

now??
Do I still have to qualify with an auto to ccw one??

AFS

 

[Standing Wolf]

They are the most powerful guns money can buy...

I wonder how the .44 magnum feels about that.

 

[ceetee]

Okay, somebody please check my math.

Twenty AR 15's at... say $900 each. That's $18,000. If the AR's cost a grand each, you're still only at $20,000.

Two .50's at... what? You've got $30,000 left over. For two. Them're some expensive bang sticks...

 

[Remington788]

Okay, somebody please check my math.

Twenty AR 15's at... say $900 each. That's $18,000. If the AR's cost a grand each, you're still only at $20,000.

Two .50's at... what? You've got $30,000 left over. For two. Them're some expensive bang sticks...

Don't you know, when its a government agency, everything costs twice as much.

 

[beerslurpy]

What are cops going to use a 50 cal for? Adamantine golems running amuck in the business district?

I thought cops were concerned about overpenetration, but apparently I was mistaken.

 

[asknight]

ceetee, guess they also bought some damn fine scopes, magazines, and ammo to feed those beasts. They probably earmarked a part of that misquote for training the officer on the use of them.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

The police do not need 50 caliber rifles to do their job.

 

[chrisTx]

neither do private citizens, but i can see certain police circumstances where a 50 would come in handy.

i've seen them. i think they're the XM109s. i'm not sure how much they are, but i'm sure they weren't cheap. it's the shortened version of the semi-auto military sniper rifle.

dallas PD started issuing rifles last year, and authorized private purchases in case officers didn't want to wait for an issue rifle. i don't know what they'll do with the extras.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

neither do private citizens, but i can see certain police circumstances where a 50 would come in handy

"Need" is not a requisite for private firearms ownership.

"Need" should be a requisite for government agencies buying toys with taxpayer money. I realize these guns were given to the police, but upkeep, ammo, and training will be at taxpayer expense.

I can envision reasons for police to have 50 BMG rifles, but these scenarios would be so rare as to not justify expense in my opinion. I can also envision scenarios where the police might be better served with Ferraris than Crowne Victorias.

 

[Scottmkiv]

Is Dallas so broke that they can't afford a few guns? I mean two .50s plus scopes should be nowhere near as expensive as a single car...

 

[Crosshair]

Just wait until someone Barney Fifes one of those things.

 

[ElTacoGrande]

Good for Dallas PD, but when I see things like this, I always have to ask myself, what's the real story? These guys think Dallas PD is wonderful that they can't restrain themselves from donating $100k?

Don't get me wrong, I am not in any way knocking Dallas PD, but I also know that when real money moves, there's usually some kind of exchange, something more than just altruism going on. I mean, who are these guys, the Dallas Arms Collectors Association? Huh? Ok, we all collect guns, but who here is a member of an association for that, and what kind of collectors' association can come up with $100k and then give it away?

 

[ArmedBear]

Hey, if donating guns to the local PD helps remind people that guns are primarly the defensive tools of the innocent, not just the tools of criminals, then that's a good thing.

On the other hand, given that many of the laws that they enforce are the laws of a would-be police state here in California, I wouldn't want to voluntarily help arm them further. And for that matter, most of the well-armed criminals they fight are involved in the drug trade, which is only violent because we as a society made it violent by banning something that is an inevitable part of human behavior and the marketplace, then enforcing that ban with violence.

I support cops because I know they put their lives on the line and deal with real scumbags daily. But if there's an arbitrary gunfight going on between two sides I don't particularly support (violent government vs. violent drug gangs) I hardly want to toss in some more weapons. I just want to get out of there.

 

[AZRickD]

http://www.dallasarms.com/

The Dallas Arms Collector's Association, Inc was founded in February, 1975 and is incorporated as a non-profit organization. We are affiliated with the National Rifle Association. The club has four classes of members. These are voting members, associate members, youth members and non-voting honorary members. The number of voting members is set at three hundred and fifty. Most of our members live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, but we also have members from many parts of Texas. A few members reside in other states. The D.A.C.A. is dedicated to promote friendship among those interested in the collection of arms and their accessories. The club provides a means for members to locate, secure and exchange arms and to increase the members knowledge of the history of arms and their values. To achieve the above aims, the D.A.C.A. holds monthly meetings and sponsors five gun shows a year in Dallas. The club is also unflinching in its efforts to make a united stand in oppossing legislation and activities which may be harmful to our Second Amendment rights. The D.A.C.A. is staffed by elected officers and directors.

The Dallas Arms Collectors Association, Inc
P.O. Box 170415
Irving, Texas 75017
(972) 255-5280

 

[ElTacoGrande]

Ok, it's partially a collectors' organization and partially a commercial business of running five gun shows a year and partly a RKBA group. This all makes sense.

Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid because here in LA anyone who is anyone has to be a member of the "Friends of Sheriff Baca" organiztaion. He won the last election by 70%. He's the highest-paid elected official in the US. Lots of people are happy to voluntarily help him out because they don't have a choice. Discretionary CCW permits and also discretionary permits for events and security for events are his big money-makers I guess.

 

[k_dawg]

Well, we all know that .50cal is only designed to shoot down airplanes.. so maybe it will be a 9/11 plane defense?

 

[Powderman]

The police do not need 50 caliber rifles to do their job.

OK, oh wise one, just how much time have YOU spent in a patrol car?

If the answer is none, just shut up already, will ya?

Seeing the eternal cop-bashing on this board is getting REAL old.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

OK, oh wise one, just how much time have YOU spent in a patrol car?

None, but I won't shut up.

I think the chances of police officers needing a 50 caliber rifle to do their job is so low that the cost and expense of training, maintenance, etc is not justified.

I have a right to complain about that as a taxpayer, not because of any unique law enforcement qualifications.

Perhaps, instead of making snide comments about my intelligence and then telling me to shut up, you could actually explain why you think officers need these guns. If you make a good enough argument, you might even convince me to rethink my position. Attacking me without making any logical case for your viewpoint is unlikely to convince me, though.

Also, I have no idea why you mention "cop bashing". I made no negative comments about law enforcement, and are attacking me for something I didnt do.

 

[TexasRifleman]

OK, oh wise one, just how much time have YOU spent in a patrol car?

If the answer is none, just shut up already, will ya?

Seeing the eternal cop-bashing on this board is getting REAL old.

It's not cop bashing, I too don't want to pay for that kind of training and upkeep. The number of times a .50 would be a NECESSITY in Dallas of all places cannot possibly justify the money that will be spent on keeping proficiency high on the thing.

It seems that Dallas PD has gotten along very well without a .50, why the need all of a sudden? I can't remember a single incident where that would have made the difference in saving an officers life and I've lived here for over 20 years. The 2 incidents mentioned take a pretty far stretch of imagination to believe that the "magical" .50 would have changed the outcome somehow.

And, even if you can convince me there is a specialty need, it sure as HECK isn't inside a PATROL CAR.

That kind of weapon should only be deployed by a SWAT team and only in rare cases at that. There is very little reason that a '06 or .308 rifle is not plenty.

Maybe you could tone down the wounded child thing some?

 

[roo_ster]

Quote:
The police do not need 50 caliber rifles to do their job.

OK, oh wise one, just how much time have YOU spent in a patrol car?

If the answer is none, just shut up already, will ya?

Seeing the eternal cop-bashing on this board is getting REAL old.

I don't think it is cop-bashing, just an observation and opinion by the poster. Policemen are civilians, not a military or para-military organization. Cannons, big 50s, and other military hardware would equip police for missions outside of their charter, no matter how cool it would be to have on tap.

Since local police departments are largely taxpayer funded, need is a viable critera on which to base expenditures on their behalf. These criteria are justly decided upon by the taxpayers, since they are paying the bills. Wise taxpayers and their representatives will solicit imput from their policemen, but are not bound by it.

I also doubt even DPD is so blase about the big 50s that they will issue them out to be used by cops on patrol...because there is no need for them in patrol cars/on patrol. The ARs will be for patrolmen, as there has been a demonstrated need for a carbine's properties (Google "takeover bandits richardson texas"). Also, since DPD has been so unwise as to join the BS lawsuit against Ford, they can no longer buy Crown Vics. They are buying smaller, FWD Chevy Impalas, nowadays. Good luck finding the some place to stuff a big 50.

Chief Kunkle is orders of magnitude better than his predecessor, but his statement, "We may not have to use the tool in many, many years, or maybe even ever. But having a weapon like this in certain circumstances could be critical to community safety,” is pleasant-sounding baloney. "We'll likely never use 'em, but they are critical!" It was also a nice thing to say if you have received a gift, so I can't really hold it against him.

In principle, I have no problem with police being armed with anything that it is legal for a regular old taxpayer to own.

To sum up, need is a perfectly valid question to ask when equipping taxpayer funded officials. OTOH, need is completely inappropriate when some private citizen is slapping down their own dollars.

------------

DACA runs the best gun shows in DFW.

 

[chrisTx]

I think the chances of police officers needing a 50 caliber rifle to do their job is so low that the cost and expense of training, maintenance, etc is not justified.

the chances of an officer actually needing to shoot someone is rare. does that mean firearms training should be removed? i've been patrolling dallas-fort worth for 10 years and i can only count a handful of officers i know who have had to shoot someone, but i don't know a single one who doesn't train regularly with their firearm and pay money to upkeep it. please.

if a situation involves one of my family members and a 50 caliber with a cop behind it would be a perfect solution to get them out of it, i hope like hell that department has one.

 

[Powderman]

Perhaps, instead of making snide comments about my intelligence and then telling me to shut up, you could actually explain why you think officers need these guns. If you make a good enough argument, you might even convince me to rethink my position. Attacking me without making any logical case for your viewpoint is unlikely to convince me, though.

Perhaps I did come on a bit strong, and I apologize for doing so. And, I made no comment about your intelligence.

My comment was posted because it seems that the biggest critics of law enforcement have no experience--not even a passing experience--with being behind a badge.

And, with all due respect, I really am not concerned if you change your position at all.

These guns were GIVEN to the Department. Not bought, with taxpayer dollars--GIVEN. And someone STILL finds fault. Not only you, but others as well.

There are some on this board who would be happy to see us go back to the days of the .38 revolver with 6 extra rounds, a nightstick and no body armor.

Oh, and by the way--you would probably have a stroke if you saw what I carry in MY patrol car.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

oh wise one

Oh, so you seriously meant I was wise. Are you sure that was not sarcastic?

As others have pointed out, the rifles were free. Maintenance, training, ammo, and liability in the event they are used is funded at tax payer expense.

We are now 20 or so posts into this thread. I had asked for a practial example of why a LEO would need a 50 cal rifle, and no one has provided one.

So please, I ask of you, can you tell me of an incident when a 50 caliber rifle would have changed the outcome of the situation? Are you sure the situation would not have been handled just as well with a 308 or even 223?

If you can't give a practical example from real life, I would be willing to even consider theoretical situations. None have been provided yet.

Finally, I would again point out that I have made no disparaging comments about law enforcement officers, despite your insinuations. I am not a LEO, nor do I have any particular experience. I am a taxpayer, and would like to see my tax money spent in a cost effective manner, while at the same time providing police with the equipment they need to do their jobs, and keep themselves and the community safe. I just don't see how a 50 caliber rifle fits into that.

And I probably wouldn't have a stroke if I saw what was in your trunk. I might even own a couple myself...

 

[Powderman]

Finally, I would again point out that I have made no disparaging comments about law enforcement officers, despite your insinuations. I am not a LEO, nor do I have any particular experience. I am a taxpayer, and would like to see my tax money spent in a cost effective manner

Here, we have another bottleneck.

These .50 rifles did not cost YOU or ME a dime.

They were donated to the Department.

As far as situations where a .50 might be employed, well, let's see.

The best use I can think of is this: one of the recent incidents where armed smugglers from Mexico were caught on this side of the border, with some SERIOUS crew served weaponry.

Or, responding to a call to aid another jurisdiction outside the city limits. Texas has a LOT of wide open spaces, IIRC.

Perhaps stopping a car full of fleeing, combative felons. One 600 gr. round at high velocities to the engine block will work wonders.

Or, again, outside the city, where a precision shot is called for in the great wide open. No close cover is available.