dangerous game scout scope diffiuculty making decision

[Greg Koziol]

I need a scout scope that can hold up to heavy recoil (.375 H&H level) , and is illuminated so i can hunt at night or for self defense at night and low light. Good quick detachable scope rings from aluminum, (i have an aluminum base and don't want to add weight and possibly ruin the base). This will be a 200 yard and under gun. 300 yards would be very very rare. I guess you could call this a "Brush gun"

choices I came up with and having difficult time choosing between the 2:

1) aimpoint 9000sc in 2moa... like it because it is parallax free, and fast acquisition in case of a charging animal. But i'm worried it may be tough to make shots beyond 150 yards... unless i'm just worry for no reason

2) Burris 2-7x x 32 illuminated handgun scope... like this because i can use the lower power for 100-200 yard shots, and i have a supe rhigh power if i really need. But i'm worried in an attack or charge it will be slow to get on target because of the 2x zoom and parallax...

for scope rings:
A.R.M.S throw lever 30mm rings

what would you guys choose

 

[C-grunt]

Either way I wouldnt use ARMS rings. Have seen ARMS products get really loose relatively quick. Look into a Larue mount if it fits your setup.

 

[Kjay]

I've got the 9000L 4MOA and find the sight tough as nails. The 4MOU works for 150m. I suspect I could make a shot on a moose or bear with it to 200m. The 2MOU should work for a larger critter at 200-250M under any probable circumstance and I'm sure Aimpoint will take the recoil. I use 30mm Aimpoint rings and these seem to work - but then I shoot something a whole lot easier than a .375.

 

[Greg Koziol]

Thanks brother Kjay. i'm shooting a .45-70 with hot loads... I got a box of buffalo bore 400 grainers which are rated to 2000fps, I have a 22" barrel so it is probalby close to 2050-2100. I will probably also be using some 300 grain hollow points that are pushed to around 2400.

I figure if I buy aimpoint i'm also supporting the latest and greatest of american innovation. Go America or Go home

i'm gonna go with the aimpoint.. 2moa dot is small enough for 200 yard work... with some practice of course

 

[Greg Koziol]

Either way I wouldnt use ARMS rings. Have seen ARMS products get really loose relatively quick. Look into a Larue mount if it fits your setup.

interesting, i'd like to go larue but their rings are $100 more expensive

 

[boricua9mm]

I have had a Signature Select "Made in the USA" scope from Burris that completely crapped out. I would never buy another Burris, and I definitely wouldn't bet my life on one. Since you're talking dangerous game, you'd be doing just that.

I have had nothing but great experiences with Aimpoints, and I can and do rely on them for self-defense. I just can't say the same about any Burris product.

 

[Greg Koziol]

thanks bro... thats what i was thinking... if soldiers in iraq and afghanistan are trusting their life with it, i can too.

 

[Greg Koziol]

anyone use a 2x aimpoint? does the magnification take away from fast target acquisition? is the magnification good or cause more problems then it's worth (less FOV)

 

[taliv]

interesting, i'd like to go larue but their rings are $100 more expensive

not sure where you're from, but since there's not really any 'dangerous' game in the continental US or EU where 99% of our members are from, i'm going to go out on a limb and say the extra $100 is a pittance compared to the cost of traveling, tags and licenses, etc typically associated with hunting 'dangerous' game.

seriously, larue is money well spent.

 

[Greg Koziol]

grizzly bears are no dangerous? bull moose in the rut is not dangerous? Black bears are not dangerous??!!!!!

 

[Greg Koziol]

thanks Taliv i see you have some bias against A.R.M.S.

 

[taliv]

i certainly do, and i also own both larue and ARMS products.

 

[Greg Koziol]

i'm not denying that Larue is better than A.R.M.S. but i thin ARMS is good enough for my uses. If soldiers in IRAQ use ARMS then so can I. I think the aimpoints come with aimpoint rings, so i'll just use those until i can get something better. thanks

 

[briansmithwins]

i'm not denying that Larue is better than A.R.M.S. but i thin ARMS is good enough for my uses.

Dangerous game and being in the deep bush are 2 reasons why I would want the best gear, not 'good enough'.

ARMS has a history of failure. Hopefully everything comes out ok for you.

OTOH, like one of my engineers says: 'Hope is not a methodology'.

BSW

 

[Greg Koziol]

thanks brother.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

Open sighgts sound better...

 

[Robert Wilson]

I can't help you with the rings, and I've not used either of the scopes in question, but I can tell you that parallax is not worth worrying about in a very low powered scope used at relatively short ranges, and that 2x is just ever so slightly slower (for me, anyway) than 1x (no magnification.)

 

[TonyAngel]

Just a point, but I think that Aimpoints are made in Sweden.

In any case, the 2X Aimpoint is one of those things that you either love or hate. I hated them and apparently, so did most others, since they've been discontinued. The field of view was VERY narrow and for some reason shooting with both eyes open gave me a headache.

When you say that you need a "scout" scope, do you mean that you need a long eye relief scope? If so, I have not comments. If you were just referring to size or purpose, I would suggest that you check out the Nikon African, Sightron SII Big Sky and the dangerous game scopes from Weaver. All are nice and can take a pounding.

 

[Greg Koziol]

Tony, Scout scope i mean it needs to be mounted forward.. i just use that terminology so some of the guru's on here don't try educating me in paragraphs about how i'm not using the proper terminology.

Thats what i figured about the aimpoint. thanks brother. Any advice is appreciated, i have no friends that are hardcore shooters or hunters, i'm not one myself i just want to set up my rifle so it's good to go for all situations from deer hunting to bear hunting to africa maybe one day, to home defense... and for those situations i believe a scout scope or forward mounted scope is the best because you can see your periphery better and in case of a charge or if you need to make a quick offhand shot at say 200 yards or under.... may be difficult to do with a scope.

I think i'm going to go with the aimpoint... it's battle proven and it's 1x... which is faster then any scope

 

[Greg Koziol]

I can't help you with the rings, and I've not used either of the scopes in question, but I can tell you that parallax is not worth worrying about in a very low powered scope used at relatively short ranges, and that 2x is just ever so slightly slower (for me, anyway) than 1x (no magnification.)

Parallax will make a difference between life or death in my opinion. If i have a big bear thats 3x the size of me (i'm 300pounds) charging me at 40 miles per hour and i have to worry about line the scope up right so it's not black that can make a big difference. One second at fourty miles per hour the bear or other dangerous animal can cover 20 or so yards. I'd rather have something parallax free, think i'm gonna go with the aimpoint.

 

[Greg Koziol]

Open sighgts sound better...

I have a pair of iron sights... detachable rear ghost ring, and i'm waiting on an all steel tritium front sight that is vertically adjustable, it has wings too so in case i bump it into a tree or something i don't have to worry about smashing the post. When I get the irons I will sight them in and they will be my back up sight. But I want a primary sight to be some sort of optic, I think an aimpoint is the best for my situation

 

[briansmithwins]

I think an aimpoint is the best for my situation

Yes, it pretty much is. The Aimpoints are faster than irons and allow for taking shots from unconvential shooting positions easier. If you can see the dot, you can hit the target.

Plus, you can leave the sight on 24/7 so you're always ready.

Compact, lightweight, reliable, what's not to like?

BSW

 

[redneckdan]

Parallax will make a difference between life or death in my opinion. If i have a big bear thats 3x the size of me (i'm 300pounds) charging me at 40 miles per hour and i have to worry about line the scope up right so it's not black that can make a big difference. One second at fourty miles per hour the bear or other dangerous animal can cover 20 or so yards. I'd rather have something parallax free, think i'm gonna go with the aimpoint.

What you are talking about is not parallax. The black within the scope is from not lining up properly on the scope.

Parallax is an optical property that pretty much boils down to the idea that a rifle with optic can be pointed at a target and if you move your line of sight without moving the rifle the cross hairs will seem to shift on the target. This is caused by differences in focal plane between target, eye and reticule.

Red dot scopes, ie aimpoint, are not parallax free. Don't believe me? Set your rifle with optic down on a rest aiming at a target. Then move your head around to vary your line of sight. The dot will move around on the target

The only sight that even comes close to to being parallax free is the Eotech and even that is from 22yds to infinity. You will still get parallax at closer ranges.

An aimpoint on a scout mount would be a pretty slick set up. But under stand it will not be parallax free. I like the idea of detachable rings.

 

[Sky]

Rings

AR15 One-piece Mounts check it out for scope ring mount combos http://www.maxicon.com/guns/optics/o...ece_mounts.htm ?

 

[Robert Wilson]

Parallax will make a difference between life or death in my opinion. If i have a big bear thats 3x the size of me (i'm 300pounds) charging me at 40 miles per hour and i have to worry about line the scope up right so it's not black that can make a big difference. One second at fourty miles per hour the bear or other dangerous animal can cover 20 or so yards. I'd rather have something parallax free, think i'm gonna go with the aimpoint.

As Dan pointed out, that's not parallax. It's an issue with exit pupil. In scopes with significant magnification (for their objective diameter) the little spot of light coming out of the rear lens (exit pupil) becomes small enough that you have to carefully line your eye up with it. In scopes with low or no magnification, the exit pupil is large enough that you don't have to take any care lining up your eye with it.

In my experience, rifles mounted with scopes of less than about 3x can be thrown quickly to the shoulder with the eyes closed and when the eyes are opened the full field of view will be visible through the scope. That is why professional hunters of dangerous game around the world (including Alaska's Phil Shoemaker, who has tremendous experience with big angry bears) use Leupold's 1-5x5 and 2.5 Ultralight for backing up clients.

This is not to tell you that they will automatically be better than the Aimpoint you have in mind, but to put you at ease regarding their speed of use.