dangerous game scout scope diffiuculty making decision

[Maverick223]

I'd say your comparison is fairly accurate, all else being equal (weight, stock fitment, et cetera) moderately heavy .45-70Govt. loads approximate .375H&H (which is also more of a big shove) in my experience. My stoutest loads are a bit more than my .375H&H (which is of comparable weight, but has a little better stock fitment), but they are a good deal more powerful than the Buff. Bore fodder. Only when I load the .375H&H with 350gr. Woodleigh FMJ-RNs and a stout charge does the it get close in the recoil department (terminal performance is a whole different issue).

 

[Robert]

Greg,
I am using my 1895G for Elk this fall. There is no need to pay B Bore prices. That stuff packs a punch on your shoulder and your wallet. I am loading hard cast lead 405 gr bullets over 50 gr of H322. That will get about 1800 fps which is more than enough for anything in North America. I can shoot that load all day long with the factory pad. If you have the chance you might look into reloading for the 45-70. Cheaper and a heck of a lot of fun.

A.R.M.S is becoming more and more well known for making cheap, read crappy, mounts and charging premium prices. Add this to their, in my opinion, frivolous lawsuit against LaRue and anyone else that makes a similar mount and you can see why so many people dislike them. The guy that runs A.R.M.S can only be described in terms that are low road while Mark LaRue is a stand up guy that is easy to talk to on the phone. There have been some threads on this subject in the last 5 or 6 months, try running a search and see what comes up.

 

[Greg Koziol]

the .45-70 probably has more recoil when you get up to heavier bullets loaded hot like 400-500 grain size.

 

[Greg Koziol]

Greg,
I am using my 1895G for Elk this fall. There is no need to pay B Bore prices. That stuff packs a punch on your shoulder and your wallet. I am loading hard cast lead 405 gr bullets over 50 gr of H322. That will get about 1800 fps which is more than enough for anything in North America. I can shoot that load all day long with the factory pad. If you have the chance you might look into reloading for the 45-70. Cheaper and a heck of a lot of fun.

A.R.M.S is becoming more and more well known for making cheap, read crappy, mounts and charging premium prices. Add this to their, in my opinion, frivolous lawsuit against LaRue and anyone else that makes a similar mount and you can see why so many people dislike them. The guy that runs A.R.M.S can only be described in terms that are low road while Mark LaRue is a stand up guy that is easy to talk to on the phone. There have been some threads on this subject in the last 5 or 6 months, try running a search and see what comes up.

I don't have the money for handloading equipment yet, so for now i'll just have to go with the commercial stuff... but eventually i'd like to start handloading, until then commerical ammo will be the ticket. There are some big black bears here in new york... one guy shot one last season with his bow in his backyard that was almost 700 pd live weight, dressed weight was like 628. The area i hunt has a lot of large bears crawling everywhere and it's really thick... i don't want to take any chances, especially if i'm hiking to and from my spot in the wee hours of the mornings or in the evening back to the car after the sun goes down. the area is a huge clear cut with 6-10ft white pines and blueberries/rhododendrons about the same heigh - 6-10ft in heigh... so visibility in most places is limited to 20 feet in front of me except a few places i can see out to 200 yards.

The area experiences very little human traffic as well

Recoil doesn't botther me, my 12 gauge shoots a 1oz slug at 1800fps and i actually enjoy shooting it. I have more natural cushioning on me then the average person because i am a powerlifter so i have cushioning for the recoil...

I bought a premium pachmayr recoil pad a few months ago and installed it... it is the pachmayr F990 triple magnum ... designed for field shotguns and safari rifles.

 

[Robert]

That is the beautiful thing about the 405gr bullet. Even moving at a slow pace, say 1500fps, it will pass through and kill a Bison. I believe it is 1858 that has had that experience. If the Buffalo Bore is working for you awesome. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I hear you about reloading. I am lucky enough to have a buddy with a good setup in his basement that he lets me use. One day I hope to have my own reloading room.

 

[Greg Koziol]

I have a few boxes of 400 grain remingtons and i wouldn't hesitate to use them on virtually anything except maybe grizzly i'd want something more solid, but the only reason i want the buffalo bore is for the flattery trajectory

The only reason i chose the buffalo bores @ 2000fps is more for accuracy than for power... i've shot the factory remington 405 grains @ 1300 when i first bought my rifle through a 12" hickory and the bullet when straight through and was in the dirt on the other side about 1 foot in the dirt, i dug out the bullets and they were silver dollar sized wad of copper and lead... looked pretty nasty thing to have inside of you lol!! but i was amazed at the penetrating power with those remington loads... to go straight thru a tree is amazing... and with soft lead tips... just amazing.

I chose buffalo bore more for accuracy because the factory remingtons drop off like 2 feet outside of 100 yards lol. the buffalo bore 405's only drop like 8" at 200 yards, and like 2" at 150 yards

Thanks for the advice Gus, always nice meeting a fellow .45-70 enthusiast

 

[Maverick223]

the .45-70 probably has more recoil when you get up to heavier bullets loaded hot like 400-500 grain size.

That's what I was saying, the .45-70Govt. with stout loads has a decent amount more felt recoil than all but the stoutest .375H&H (though I don't push my loads for this cartridge as heavily as I do the .45-70). I currently don't load the .45-70Govt. with anything heavier than 405gr. so I can't comment about the heavier loads, but I surmise they would be less out of a 1895, because you loose too much capacity. FWIW, the 450/465gr. bullets, like the Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilized Solids (a bullet I plan to try in my .458American Express, when I finish it), seem to be the "butter zone" for weight/SD/velocity in a .45cal. cartridge if you can push them fast enough.

I don't have the money for handloading equipment yet, so for now i'll just have to go with the commercial stuff... but eventually i'd like to start handloading, until then commerical ammo will be the ticket.

Save up and start as soon as you can; if you plan to shoot much .45-70Govt. it will pay for itself pretty quickly.

 

[Greg Koziol]

thanks maverick...yea i agree 100% with everything you said... reloading equipment will be next on my agenda... plus it's a good skill to have...

First order of business i getting this marlin 1895 tuned up to where i want it... which means i still need to take care of the scout set up, a big loop lever also, and a nice flashlight will go on here.. then of course sight the whole thing in... after i do all that, reloading will be next phase


thanks for all the advice

 

[Greg Koziol]

what do you guys think about an aimpoint compc3 in 2moa forward mounted, with an extra wide qd ring to handle recoil, and for hunts where i am expect 100-200yard shots i can tack on an aimpoint 3x magnifier with flip to side mount... i'm a little concerned about eye relief on these there only 3" give or take half an inch, i supposed i can just more the magnifier further away but i'll lose some FOV.

 

[Maverick223]

I don't like red-dots, nor EER setups, but Aimpoint has a proven track record and good battery life, so that wouldn't be a bad choice IMO if you like that sort of thing.

 

[Greg Koziol]

one battery can last up to 5 years on setting 7 our of 10. Then you can buy a double battery kit that lets you store an extra battery right on the sight so if you run out you can put the new battery in. Aimpoints are the best i think.

 

[rbernie]

The 2x 9000L is fine for close work and enough magnification for any shooting you're likely to do with a 45/70 at unknown distances. Moving to a unmagnified optic with a 3x accessory is going to be a pain in the rear to use, relatively speaking. You're far more likely to miss due to wobble or distance mis-estimation than you are due to lack of magnification.

 

[Norrick]

Alot of people swear by burris but I think they're probably used to the older ones "that they've had for years without a problem". The ones I've handled left me unimpressed.

The only reason I'd consider a Burris is if you want an adjustable objective, as they seem to be the only ones in the business that do this for a handgun scope currently.


I would say you can't go wrong with Nikon but I've actually read about some problems with the Encores taking recoil, I don't know if they've since remedied that problem.

I guess Leupold? I usually try to look for alternatives because I like to go against the grain but I think for this category your options are limited.

If you are considering any type of reflex/red-dot sights, I would go look at Trijicon. Alot of their models use fiber optic collectors to illuminate their reticles by day and tritium for night time and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and batteries (during day at least, I have not looked through one in the dark). Very nice to not need batteries.

 

[geologist]

I'm putting a Leupold FXII 2.5x28mm IER scope onto my Marlin 1895 GS 45-70. It's going onto an XS scout mount in Burris Zee QD rings. I have a Wild West ghost ring sight on the reciever.

On my 20" BRNO .375 H&H carbine I have a Leupold VariX 1.5x5x20mm mounted conventionally on the double square receiver in Warne Maxima medium QD rings. The BRNO has excellent OEM express sights with 100, 200 and 300 yard leaves. The 100 yard leaf is bang on with 270 and 300gr ammo.