Daniel Defense AR15 - One Of The Best?

[Mr.Blue]

As far as AR's go, I have a RRA Carbine and a Bushmaster Varminter. I like both. In fact the Varminter is arguably the most accurate AR out there.

I want to get a top line AR carbine that will be VERY VERY durable. I am leaning towards Daniel Defense. I want to use it for classes, competitions, and for a survival rifle. I'd like to get a rifle with AR accuracy and AK-like reliability. I know that may be impossible.

In your opinion does Daniel Defense make one of the best AR's out there?

Are they very durable?

Entirely Mil Spec?

Good for low level competitions?

Good customer service?

Accurate compared to other AR's?

Who has the best prices on DD online?

Personal experiences with DD rifles are welcomed.

Thanks, guys.

 

[JustinJ]

I'd like to get a rifle with AR accuracy and AK-like reliability.

If you mean standard military issue AR accuracy an Arsenal AK74 will be equal if not damn close.

I've heard plenty of good things about DD. As far as milspec its my unerstanding that their only part that is not milspec is their barrels.

 

[MIL-DOT]

From what I've gathered, DD is definately one of the top-tier AR manufacturers. There are several top-line manufacturers around,( DD,Bravo,Sabre Defense, Spikes,Noveske,LMT,Colt,etc.) but possibly the most economical of them seems to be Spikes Tactical.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

What sort of classes? How to get multiple hits on large, close target in a short period of time or how to put 30 bullets into one ragged hole 200 yards away?

What sort of Competitions? See above.

What do you mean "survival rifle"? Rifle used to take game to feed oneself or rifle used against competitors for limited resources?

They are good rifles. Whether they are the "best" for you depends upon the specific role, what you will be feeding it, your training and experience, as well as your preferences.

There is no "best" anything for everybody. If there was, communism may have worked.

 

[Mr.Blue]

What sort of classes? How to get multiple hits on large, close target in a short period of time or how to put 30 bullets into one ragged hole 200 yards away?

What sort of Competitions? See above.

What do you mean "survival rifle"? Rifle used to take game to feed oneself or rifle used against competitors for limited resources?

They are good rifles. Whether they are the "best" for you depends upon the specific role, what you will be feeding it, your training and experience, as well as your preferences.

1. Carbine classes that probably focus on shots less than 50 yards.

2. Competitions that focus on "Action Shooting", if they even have them. I may even do three gun events.

3. Survival rifle if I need to leave my home in a rush during a disaster or major terrorist attack. It would be used for protection and hunting in a pinch. No one suggest a .22lr please!

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Given those parameters, a DD may be just the ticket for you. Keep in mind that most run best with 5.56 mil-spec ammo, not the cheap imported stuff, Fed AE(only Lake City AE is mil-spec, the rest is not), or WWB.

 

[Mr.Blue]

Thanks.

When you say "run best", do you mean they will malfunction with the cheap stuff/Russian stuff? I use match stuff for long shots, but tend to use cheaper stuff for plinking. It's important to me that my new AR run on all ammo.

Thanks again, guys!

 

[Matthew Courtney]

DD m-4's are engineered to run with mil-spec 5.56x45 ammo which is loaded to about 62,000 PSI. .223 Remington ammo is loaded to 55,000 PSI. The steel cased stuff varies wildly in pressure because the steel cases do not expand to seal the breech reliably.

The AR's (such as Bushmaster) that shoot a wide varlety of ammo out there reliably tend to be "over gassed" with mil-spec 5.56 ammo, meaning that the 62,000 psi generated by mil-spec ammo dumps too much gas thru the (larger) gas port and tube into the gas key, causing the rifle to run hotter and dirtier, and causing the bolt to cycle faster. The extra heat and speed can lead to faster wear. The speed can be moderated by and H buffer.

There isn't really a "best". There is simply a series of trade-offs. A well broken in DD might be reliable with Wolf ammo, and a Bushie might not be over gassed with mil-spec ammo, but the engineers haven't yet figured out a way to consistently make a rifle work really well with all of the ammo out there.

The shorter gas systems in m-4's makes the pressure issue harder to manage, as pressure deviations tend toward the mean as the bullet goes down the barrel. Longer gas systems tap the gas from further down the barrel. Perhaps putting a telestock on a Colt with a 20 inch barrel and full length gas system would balance your needs for compactness, durability, and reliability. it would be about 6.5 inches shorter than your varminter with the stock collapsed and as durable and reliable as anything out there. I'd still advise a couple of sets of spare parts.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The DD will probably have a 0.62" gas port (for a carbine), which is the military spec. this will help reliability with military pressure ammo. The flipside of that is that gas port may not be enough for low-powered steel case ammo.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I own a couple DD uppers. They are definitely among the best, and for your uses one of the best options. I would say that DD and BCM are the two companies that make mil-spec or better, standard pattern ARs, in a wide variety of configurations. If you want the absolute mil-spec, get a Colt 6920, but the DD and BCM are arguably better in a number of ways and not inferior in many, if any, ways. LMT's M4 clone is also in the same league. I think the LMT MRP is a better AR still, but it is nonstandard with the proprietary upper and barrel system, and I wouldn't suggest it as a first AR for almost anyone. I think a DD M4v3 would serve your desires very well.

 

[nathan]

DD is overhyped like most of the other brands. They are quality guns but how much quality do you really need . If money is no problem then the DD is the way to go.

 

[Z-Michigan]

DD is overhyped like most of the other brands. They are quality guns but how much quality do you really need .

I've owned a full range of quality from, at the low end, Del-Ton, DPMS, and Bushmaster, through middle brands like Armalite, Rock River and CMMG, and at the high end BCM and DD. You get what you pay for, and in fact you get more, as the price differences are very small relative to the yawning quality differences. The low-end hobby guns perpetuate the stupid myths about AR unreliability and finickiness, while the high quality guns disprove the myths entirely.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Are they very durable?

Too new to be certain, but all indications are that they should be as good as any (e.g., Colt) and better than most.

Entirely Mil Spec?

Basically yes, with two caveats. First, only Colt holds the entire TDP that tells you what mil-spec is for an M4, so anyone else is conforming as closely as possible to the information that's in the public domain. Second, DD doesn't install their barrel nuts with grease, which is an obscure point but the TDP does require it. I've asked DD about this and they have their reason for not doing so, but most other top tiers do so.

Good for low level competitions?

If you're talking about 3-gun or similar, absolutely. Not really tailored for CMP or NRA high-power.

Good customer service?

Outstanding in my experience. I've had some very minor issues and got immediate and highly satisfactory responses.

Accurate compared to other AR's?

Depends what you compare it to. Compared to other chrome-lined barrel ARs not intended as precision guns, yes. Compared to match ARs with stainless match barrels made by the best barrel makers, probably not.

Who has the best prices on DD online?

Best prices I've seen are at smartgunner.com, but I DO NOT recommend them, as after several fine experiences with them I had a terrible experience of backorders and delays. The best prices I've seen at a company I trust are occasionally at AIM Surplus, but their inventory is sporadic. Buds Gun Shop seems to have them in stock often at fairly decent prices. You should also check out G&R Tactical.

 

[kwelz]

What is your definistion of durable?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89HEefl1KI4

 

[Mr.Blue]

Awesome replies! Thanks!

BTW, I realize that Mil Spec doesn't necessarily mean the best. To me it just represents a standard of quality and durability.

I also like LaRue and would consider them as well. LMT is good, but I want an American AR.

 

[ugaarguy]

DD is overhyped like most of the other brands.

My DD is nicer than the Colt and the LMT I used to own, and those were darn nice ARs.

They are quality guns but how much quality do you really need.

The OP stated:
"I want to get a top line AR carbine that will be VERY VERY durable. I am leaning towards Daniel Defense. I want to use it for classes, competitions, and for a survival rifle. I'd like to get a rifle with AR accuracy and AK-like reliability. I know that may be impossible."
How much quality do you think he needs?

If money is no problem then the DD is the way to go.

If money was no object I would've purchased a Knight's SR-15 or a Noveske.

 

[Mr.Blue]

I'd like to keep it under $2k not including an EOTech.

 

[fatcat4620]

Better get some nice BUIS for when your EOtec craps out.

 

[tswenson]

Hi I just baught a stagearms model 6 super varmint they garanty 1/2 MOA. how much better can you get.

 

[Z-Michigan]

LMT is good, but I want an American AR.

LMT is as American as any, made in Illinois. I've never heard of a single non-US part going into an LMT. If you've heard differently I'd be interested to know the source.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Hi I just baught a stagearms model 6 super varmint they garanty 1/2 MOA. how much better can you get.

1) OP hasn't been asking about sub-MOA accuracy.

2) Drag your Stag varminter through a carbine course or a long dirty day of 3-gun competition and let us know how many jams you get. Different rifles are built for different purposes.

 

[Mr.Blue]

LMT is good, but I want an American AR.
LMT is as American as any, made in Illinois. I've never heard of a single non-US part going into an LMT. If you've heard differently I'd be interested to know the source.

Oh. For some reason I thought they were a British company.

 

[minutemen1776]

I've owned a full range of quality from, at the low end, Del-Ton, DPMS, and Bushmaster, through middle brands like Armalite, Rock River and CMMG, and at the high end BCM and DD. You get what you pay for, and in fact you get more, as the price differences are very small relative to the yawning quality differences. The low-end hobby guns perpetuate the stupid myths about AR unreliability and finickiness, while the high quality guns disprove the myths entirely.

+1 on this

I also got into AR15 rifles with low-end gear, mostly because that's what I had money for at the time and the options then (nearly 8 years ago) weren't as plentiful. Though I enjoyed shooting those guns, I struggled with them often due to reliability issues, out-of-spec parts, etc. I spent a lot of money correcting things with higher-grade replacement parts. A year and a half ago, I got tired of the struggle and liquidated all my low-end stuff. I then replaced it with gear from BCM, DD, LMT, and Spike's. I might be labeled as a gear snob for that, but the rifles I currently have have given me ZERO problems and they perform way above the stuff I used to have. I should have started with the good stuff to begin with.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Oh. For some reason I thought they were a British company.

LMT got a fairly big contract for the UK army to supply their .308 AR (MWS) as a designated marksman rifle, so their products are in greater use with the UK than the US. Maybe that's why you thought they were UK.

 

[rikman]

My LMT Defender is great and has an awesome trigger for a mil spec gun. And made right here in the People's republic of IL ;-)