David Codrea Addresses "Stealth Candidate"

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KMKeller

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http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=3621

“Arnold has been giving money to pro-gun groups. For *years*. Good size chunks, too.â€

By David Codrea
[email protected]

November 3, 2003

“[Arnold] Schwarzenegger…agreed in the meeting to work with [Dianne] Feinstein to win an extension of her ban on assault weapons, a matter fiercely opposed by the NRA and many Republicans...â€

—San Francisco Chronicle

“He pledged to work with Feinstein to extend the federal assault weapons ban which has been one of her signature issues and which is scheduled to expire this year.â€

—Associated Press

As a California gun owner, it gives me no pleasure saying I told you so.

I told you then-candidate now California governor-elect Schwarzenegger was wrong for gun owners. I warned you he could not be trusted. I produced documentation showing that, in addition to voicing support for “stiffer†gun control laws, the Brady law, the ban on politically incorrect semi-autos, “closing the loophole of the gun shows†and mandating trigger locks, Schwarzenegger favors banning .50 caliber rifles and semi-auto handguns that do not have load indicators or magazine disconnects.

I lamented that, in spite of Arnold’s clear anti-gun positions, NRA and other groups had opted to keep silent on the most watched race in California history, and not inform and activate their members (with the notable exception of Gun Owners of America/Gun Owners of California, both of which issued strong endorsements for Tom McClintock). I welcomed the California Rifle and Pistol Association’s 11th-hour endorsement of McClintock, happy to see them finally coming on board, but disappointed that it was too late to affect voter registration and many absentee votes, and that no real grassroots mobilization was being put forth.

And I reported, incredulously, that a professional gun rights lobbyist had publicly claimed one of the candidates was secretly pro-gun, and running a stealth campaign.

“I’ve been given information that Arnold is not unfriendly to law-abiding gun owners, but he seems to think he has to hide that to get elected,†the lobbyist reported. “I can't go into evidence on that. Sorry...I was told something in confidence that has me convinced he's quite probably pro-gun. Rather seriously pro-gun at that.â€

What could convince a professional lobbyist that a candidate is a pro-gun ally in the face of a long record of anti-gun pronouncements? What could convince the pro-gun lobbying groups that they had such a secret friend? What information did they have that we, their voting members did not, and why was it withheld from us?

“Arnold has been giving money to pro-gun groups. For *years*. Good size chunks, too,†the lobbyist reports. “This is what I was gagged on.â€

And what “pro-gun groups†has Arnold “been giving...good size chunks†to?

“[W]e suspect the NRA got some but CCRKBA and/or SAF also got a bunch...He appears to have avoided giving money to pro-gun PACs where he might have to report his donations publicly,†the lobbyist claims.

To “suspect the NRA†is one thing. But to spread such suspicions without evidence hardly seems conscientious and fair. It’s not a claim that should be made lightly by a professional addressing a public forum.

The lobbyist’s next assertion seems less uncertain.

“Yes, he gave money to pro-gun groups. Not just NRA, either,†he proclaims.

And he seems downright authoritative declaring “Like I keep saying: yes, my info is that Arnold has been giving money to pro-gun groups for a LONG time. NRA and CCRKBA among them, no idea which others. JPFO is a possibility, as he was careful to give money to...well, Jews. For reasons that should be obvious.â€

One person it’s not “obvious†to is Aaron Zelman, executive director of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, who responded to this claim by unequivocally refuting it.

“JPFO has NEVER received a penny from Arnold Schwarzenegger,†Mr. Zelman states. “I would be surprised if he knew we existed.â€

Clearly, the lobbyist had no cause or evidence to warrant dragging JPFO into this public discussion. A public retraction and apology to them would seem to be in order.

And without substantiation that he’s willing to bring forth, claiming that NRA received confidential contributions from Arnold seems irresponsible and inflammatory — after all, they sat out of the governor’s race despite McClintock’s long and faithful Second Amendment record and Schwarzenegger’s numerous anti-gun proclamations. To imply that secret contributions played any part influencing that decision simply looks bad, and could undermine member and public confidence in the organization’s political leadership.

If the lobbyist makes disclosures about his own organization, that is his prerogative. But unless he can provide substantiation for his allegations on NRA involvement, a retraction and apology to them would seem to be in order as well.

In any case, whichever “pro-gun groups†Arnold gave “good size chuks†to, it appears he got his money’s worth — especially in light of his recent anti-gun overtures to Sen. Feinstein and their apparent silence about it.
 
Of all the people who were stupid enough (stupid as regards maintaining and reclaiming 2nd amndmnt rights) to vote for Arnold, were any of them stupid enough to do it based on the "stealth candidate" crapola?:rolleyes:

If so, this movement needs serious help.
 
Remember deuce poochies, this IS California we're talking about.
 
I'm tired of these pissing matches.

What is the issue here? Who is the audience?
What is the aim of this report?
How does this help us in the battle for freedom in CA?
 
Sorry, Sven -- I'm at a loss as to how this is a pissing match.

I'm not going to speak for Mr. Codrea, but I would think that the purpose of this report is to get at the truth? But he's got his email addy at the top of the report, I believe, so you can probably email him and ask.
 
I'm tired of these pissing matches.

Well, speaking as a humble member here, I'm not. At least I'm not to the extent that I don't believe that trying to get at the truth- whether that be Mr. Codrea's side or Mr. March's (neither of whom I know personally) or somewhere in between is the object rather than tit-for-tat nonsense.

When presented with the facts I was smart enough (hooray for me) to figure out that the pro-gun side is (IMHO) on the right side of the issue. Once that hallmark of Liberal ideology fell, the rest of their house crumbled with it.

Keep giving me facts from both sides and I'll figure it out for myself, thank you.:scrutiny:
 
Well, it just seems that Jim March said some things that didn't turn out to be true. On this forum.

I didn't see the JPFO statement, but it seems obvious that that is who they are talking about-- he's the one I've seen say Arnold is a stealth candidate.

Would be interesting to see what his explanation is for Arnolds support of the AWB, even after he's elected.

And we have a clear response from JPFO.
 
Well, it just seems that Jim March said some things that didn't turn out to be true. On this forum.

Like what? That Arnold has been giving money to pro-gun groups? Or that he *might* be a stealth pro-gunner? I never said I was certain, and believe me, the jury is still out:

1) The only link we have to DiFi and the AWB is a single CNN report which didn't use exact quotes. We don't know WHAT he really said.

2) Let's say worst case, the CNN article has it exactly right. Fine. Does it mean anything?

Folks, in another thread y'all slam Dean for his statements in support of the AWB that, if CNN is right, are rather similar to Arnold's statements. Fine. Have you stopped and asked WHY Dean would trash-talk AWs?

I'll tell you why: because certain very powerful Democrat US Senators are 100% gonzo gun-ho grabbers and have basically staked a LOT of their long-term political credibility on the AW ban. That includes Chucky Schumer, the Hillarybeast and BOTH of California's Senators: DiFi and BabaBoxer.

That in turn leads to two implications: a), promoting the AW ban is now considered critical for the Democratic party because too many of their top players have staked so much on it and b), if you're a new Governator from California and you NEED help from the DC delegation, you have to trash-talk AWs. Period. Or you're not getting DiFi calling up the Federal energy oversight board and looking deeper into Enron's books, or Baba calling the Forestry department and getting more air tankers to SoCal muy pronto.

Is this starting to make sense yet?

Codrea can throw all the temper-tantrums he wants...his ranting will be taken about as seriously in Sacramento as a typical screaming toddler.

Good God, dudes, look what Tom McClintock is doing: back Arnold, give him as much credibility as possible, because when he has enough, THEN he can tell DiFi and the rest to go piss up a rope.

He can't do that yet. Not on issues that don't really mean anything such as the Fed AWB where he HAS no vote anyways, and no real clout outside to state to help it along.

The AWB extension will either happen, or not, REGARDLESS of what Arnold says. He knows it, I know it, hell DiFi knows it but she's so desperate she needs even the *appearance* of help, because she smells doom in the wind. (Or rather, the House, which'll pass the AWB extension when hell freezes over.)

So nobody here, not me, not Codrea, not Shamaya, hell probably not even Dubya know where Arnold's head is really at on guns. And guess what? We may not know for YEARS. If the state Democratic leadership is smart, they'll pass an absolute command down to the radical grabber wingnuts like Perata: NO MORE GUN GRABBING UNTIL WE GOT THIS BUDGET CRAP SORTED OUT. If they don't, they'll look like the "fiddling while the state burned" crowd. If this happens, and I've give it better than 50/50 odds, then we won't have a clue where Arnold stands until after the budget crisis, a minimum of two years.

And if the budget is repaired enough and Arnold is smelling like a big overbuilt rose, well THEN fellow gunnies, we get to find out what Arnold is really made of in the RKBA department.

On the other hand, if the Dems pick a "gunfight" next year, we'll find out sooner. Sorta. Arnold's best plan *regardless* of his own opinions on all things "bang" would be to describe the Perata-oid play as "screwing around and not fixing what's important" and veto it on that basis. (Assuming the stuff even makes it out of committee without being stomped by saner Dems.)
 
Is it just me, or has this place become real potty-mouth lately?

Jim, I doubt very seriously that any of the people you talk about except DiFi care a whole lot about gun control, except as a political tool to corral the faithful. I think we around here place way too much importance on our favorite issue.
 
OK... HUH?

"...if you're a new Governator from California and you NEED help from the DC delegation, you have to trash-talk AWs. Period. Or you're not getting ... Baba calling the Forestry department and getting more air tankers to SoCal muy pronto."

Are you trying to say that Arnold traded verbal support for the federal gun ban so Boxer would help get fire suppression support for the state -- which implies that without him doing it, somehow, that such support would be withheld?

Explainen sie pleez.
 
"Babara Boxer refuses to give federal aid against the fires without support for her AW ban, support that Arnie as governor has no power to give. This is a case of a rabid right-winger making the people and wildlife of CA pay for a political ideology."

Or at least that would be the report in the press, who LOVE to roast politicians over such things.

Sorry, I don't see it. It's laughable. "Yes, Arnie, you want money from us, but we need something from you...now sit up like a GOOOOOD dog and beg! And what do you say? 'I hate assault weapons!' GOOOOOD boy!"

Nah, that's just plain nuts.

As to RINOs...didn't Ashcroft publically tell the NRA he was on our side, while promising in Congress to enforce the weapons laws?

And what has he done?

Enforce the weapons laws.

Oh, but he's a stealth pro-gunner.

Like Arnie.
 
Somebody being weak on the 2nd Amendment makes them a RINO?

I thought that made them a Party Line Toeing, mainstream, member-in-good-standing of the GOP... :uhoh:
 
Tamara's got a point..but she parts her hair so it doesn't show :eek:

If Arnie is so utterly irrelevant Jim, why all the hubbub over the "stealth Candidate"? Nothing personal Jim, but it seems that you were playing the patsy for someone to push a pro-Arnie agenda that served to undermine the only beneficial candidate in the race. Whether you consider Tom a viable candididate or not, an effort was undertaken to undermine his position by swaying GOP support to another candidate. Now, you're backpedalling something fierce, essentially saying that it's politics as usual and doesn't really matter anyway.

All I'm interested in is the why of the matter.
 
Quoting Madmike:

Nah, that's just plain nuts.

No, it is NOT.

Look, the grabbers view the battle over the AW renewal as a final epic struggle. They know that after the drubbing the GOP took for allowing it to pass in the first place, there's NO WAY they'll ever get it enacted fresh unless they can completely take over both halves of Congress plus the Prez seat. And after the utter disaster that happened in California after the Dems took over like that, it ain't likely they'll get there at the Fed level any time soon.

So DiFi, Boxer and the rest are *desperate*. Full tilt boogie panic mode.

It's their number one issue.

KMKeller:

All I'm interested in is the why of the matter.

I'll tell you this as plain as possible:

1) I didn't think Tom could win.

2) I knew that Arnold had donated money to gun groups. My source on that is very trustworthy.

3) I wanted Davis to lose. That was my #1 priority. Basically, Davis was freaked out about the recall and rather angry. Had he remained Governor, he'd have taken it out on us, because the old "Vetothegovernor" gun rights movement of a couple years ago was a key factor that led up to all this. So Davis had to go.

4) Finally, there's Cruz. A wildcard on gun rights, he's not my cuppa tea on other issues and I don't fully trust him. Still better than Davis of course.

So knowing all the above, I mentioned Arnold's donations to pro-gunnies. Those are my motives.

It's really that simple.
 
Here's my point: the TRUTH is that if we all took all this infighting energy and re-routed it to writing letters and trying to change opinions of those we know, we'd be a lot further along.

I'm not defending anything Jim March or Mr. X or Candidate Y says... I'm trying to point out a basic fact, that divided we fall, and we sure aren't getting more UNIFIED these days.

Sometimes I wonder which side everyone is on. Really.
 
Jim March,
First of all aledging that Schwarzenegger gave money to pro-gun groups & alledging that Schwarzenegger gave money to the NRa are two completely different allegations. But we can hash that one out later.

As for Schwarzenegger & his platform, let me try to put this simply: he's in favor of gun control. What you're arguing about is not a question of where he stands, but how far he stands on that side of things.

McClintock didn't have a chance, but that was due to his being abandoned by the Republicans who should have supported him. When you have Hugh Hewitt & Michael Medved & others telling you the smart money's on Arnold, that's gonna shift things away from anyone in that party.

& as far as the AWB goes, it's not as hard a fight to get renewed as you think. More or less if we go by GOA's ratings (which are much more accurate than the NRA's) then the Senate has enough votes to pass it, & the House is damned close. So any Republican support is not helpful. I don't care if they think it won't pass & are just trying to play lip service to gun control approving voters, or if they're not directly involved in the process, what they are doing is encouraging efforts at renewal.

Hell, the Republicans could have stopped the thing in the first place, but they didn't fight it, partly for their own reasons & partly for the NRA's. Again though, that's probably a different argument altogether.

In short I don't buy Schwarzenegger being a friend of gun owners. He may prove to be a friend of the NRA, & he may prove to be a friend to all persuasions of Fuddites in the world, but he's not a friend to those who detest prior restraint based concepts such as gun control.

I find your theories about him laying low on the gun issue to be less than plausible, especially since he hasn't been laying that low on it. & as for shoring up the economy before he does anything about declaring himself to be pro-Right to Arms, that's asking everyone to avoid the facts until Cali's economy improves. The fact is Schwarzenegger is pro gun control.
 
Sven -
I'm trying to point out a basic fact, that divided we fall, and we sure aren't getting more UNIFIED these days.

That is exactly my problem with the whole CA election. Jim's categorization of Arnold as pro gun was divisive and a flagrant attempt to draw votes from the more viable candidate. Political sabotage as it were. Granted the damage Jim could have done was miniscule, but it was part of a much larger campaign that served to divide pro-gun voters by leading them to believe that there were two viable choices in the race. Nothing like a little well place disinformation eh?
 
Jim March
As to Arnold:
What I was told has nothing to do with me being some sort of "better, high level pro". God knows I don't consider myself such. I was told something in confidence that has me convinced he's quite probably pro-gun. Rather seriously pro-gun at that.
(emphasis mine)

Jim March's Blog

With everything Arnold has been saying for years, giving a few bucks to the NRA is not enough to convince me he's rather seriously pro gun.
 
Is giving money now equivalent to doing the right thing for gun owners?

Why did the NRA keep silent until the very end and then endorse Tom McClintock?
 
Having never held elected office before, we had no OTHER way to sort out where Arnold's head is at 'cept for where he spent money.

As to Tom: he decided long ago he didn't want to be governor. He's not stupid; he had to know that having BOTH "pro-life" and "anti-gay" positions meant he couldn't win.

Not being a contender probably has something to do with the NRA's delaying official endorsement. They were hoping Arnold would make a clear public signal about his views on the RKBA. When that didn't happen, they backed Tom somewhat halfheartedly because they knew he wasn't a contender.
 
OK, let's back up a sec here.

What would you guys expect the NRA or CCRKBA or whatever to do if a candidate ran for governor who was pro-gun, but otherwise a complete and utter lunatic?

Stuff like "I'm pro-gun, and furthermore I want the death penalty for too many speeding tickets or a pot bust, and a death camp on Catalina Island for AIDS patients!"

Would you complain if the NRA declined to back him?

Well McClintock's positions on gays and abortion make him almost as unelectable as the psycho example above.

HOW ELSE do you explain the overwhelmingly positive response to Tom's economic policies and his high polling numbers for personal integrity, yet his extremely poor showing in the final vote?

Don't get me wrong, I *like* Tom. Most people in the state do too, even when they overwhelmingly disagree with his stances on abortion and gays.

He had no chance at all to win. NRA knew it, I knew it, TOM knew it.
 
Jim March,
It was not necessary to wait on Schwarzenegger to establish a voting record in order to judge him. He has made at least 1 statement about gun control & his support thereof that I know about & that was before he got into politics. After he entered the race he participated in a Sacremento Bee poll concerning gun control.

http://publicola.blogspot.com/2003_08_31_publicola_archive.html#106276945567332930

He would have voted pro gun on two out of 6 questions (as the questions were asking how he would vote on current gun related legislation) in which economics seem to have been the deciding factor. But where it didn't cost the state money he was clearly voting for gun control.

Did you not see the poll when it came out? Or did unverified rumors about his spending habots make you somehow discount the results of that poll?

& btw, your assertions that Sen. McClintock did not want to be governor because of his views on homosexuality & abortion demonstrate a serious flaw in the way politics are treated. If you feel strongly about an issue or issues, you should make those issues known & not compromise for the sake of pleasing an electorate who may be hostile to those views. It seems you would have wished him to say anything in order to get elected. Well most people complain when politicians say one thing to get elected & then act differently once elected. Besides, if a person is going to deny beliefs he holds dear for the sake of gaining office, what makes you think he won't continue to deny those beliefs or embrace others he does not think are cool for the sake of holding office?

But we needn't go as far as your example. While the NRA I'm sure wouldn't support a candidate who wants the death penalty for speeding tickets even if he is pro-gun, I have problems with them not backing pro-gun candidates that don't have such proposterous views. So don't you complain when the NRA backs a less pro-gun candidate because they simply feel he has a better chance of winning? or do you find that acceptable if it seems politically expedient?

One last thing: I would explain Tom's poor voter turnout by reminding you that the Republican party along with several popular conservative celebrities (Hewitt, Medved, etc...) abandoned Sen. McClintock because Schwarzenegger was an easier victory for them. Doesn't take rocket science to conclude that when your party backs your opponent in a general election, then your support base is going to be smaller than it could have been.
 
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