David Marshalls Williams' first gun was a muzzle loading pistol

[4v50 Gary]

Remarkable man. Simple yet functional. His first gun by our definition would be classified as a zip gun. The following is taken from the book, Carbine: The Story of David Marshall Williams by Ross E. Beard. If you enjoyed Curt Gentry's book on John Moses Browing, you'll enjoy this one too. Get it via interlibrary loan or buy one second hand (they've been out of print for a while). The following is from pages 149-50.

"I guess i was around ten years old when I made my first wooden pistol. To begin with, it shot black powder, buckshot and paper wadding. To make one of these weapons I used a reed, like you fish with, for the barrel, I cut out the partition between the joints and drilled a small hole in the breech end of the reed, which I call the 'touch hole.' The pistol grip I carved from juniper wood using my pocket knife. The reed barrel is first wrapped with strong twine or fishing cord to reinforce the barrel so that it will stand a good charge of black powder. You then wrap the barrel to the pistol grip with the same kind of twine.

'The ignition takes place by way of an old-fashioned kitchen match with the head snipped off and clamped in place over the touch hole by means of a piece of corset stay that slides in and out under the string wrapping. The hammer is wooden and has a nail head driven into the hammer face. The hammer is operated by thumb release and is powered by rubber bands. When the hammer is thumb released, the nail head strikes the corset stay holder, which crushes and ignites the match head, which in turn flashes through the touch hole, igniting the black powder that has been measured and packed into the barrel. This blows the buckshot and paper wadding out of the front of the barrel. There have been several occasions when, due to intentional or unintentional overloading, the weapon exploded."

Williams is best know for the M-1 Carbine and the floating chamber Colt Ace.

 

[Beagle-zebub]

You know my grandfather did the photography and foreword for that book, right?

 

[Bigdog57]

"Williams is best know for the M-1 Carbine and the floating chamber Colt Ace."

As well as the floating chamber in the Remington 550 series semiauto .22 rifle.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Your GF is Richard Dunlap?

BTW, the author did the foreword.

 

[BHP FAN]

'''The ignition takes place by way of an old-fashioned kitchen match with the head snipped off and clamped in place over the touch hole by means of a piece of corset stay that slides in and out under the string wrapping...''


hard to find a corset stay, nowadays.

 

[Beagle-zebub]

Your GF is Richard Dunlap?

BTW, the author did the foreword.

Yep, that's him. He's still around and lucid.

Whatever edition of the book I have a copy of, grandpa did the foreword or something. It's the part where he talks about almost getting killed by Williams two or three times in the course of one visit. Are there multiple editions of that book? This is the story that includes Williams shooting the M1919 freehand because he couldn't get it on the tripod, and loosing control of the thing.

My grandfather did a big chunk of the research for that book, and I have the notes from it somewhere, three-inch thick binder. He gave my grandfather a late-model M-1 Carbine, Winchester make, that he signed his name in with a nail--grandpa's put about 30 rounds through it in the last 50 or 60 years he's had it. I couldn't find the binder last time I was home (he gave it to me and I took it back to Delaware), but I've never taken it out of the house, so if it's not there then I took it back down south to his place.

That dude was completely, utterly out of his mind. I'm not even talking about killing A.J. Pate, which he definitely did--I'm thinking about his tendency to pull his two 1911s on anyone who drew his ire, including my grandfather and Mr. Beard, on suspicion that the bags of pecans they were leaving with were parts from his shop. Then there's the story about him buying that $60,000 diamond, and losing it on the bus-ride back to where he was staying.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I have the first edition. The dustjacket has been clipped and it is protected by a mylar cover.

Over thirty years ago I had an opportunity to buy the special edition that was autographed by Carbine. Being a student, I didn't have the money.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

"Marsh" Williams lived the road from where I live now in Fayetteville. I met him in the early '70's. I knew his nephew and namesake, Dave Williams of Fayetteville,. Like his uncle, he was a fine gunmaker, who specialized in longrifle building. He always had an story to tell about his "Uncle Marsh". From time to time, a reporter would come to the front door and ask Mr Williams for an interview. "Marsh" would always wear bib overalls and carried a 1911 Colt on each side pocket, which usually gave reporters an excuse to look elsewhere for a news story.

The state of North Carolina dismantled his workshop in the early '70's before his death, board by board, brick by brick, labeled everything, and shipped it to Raleigh. A special room in the NC Museum of History was set aside. The shop was reconstructed completely, and the items inside the shop gave the appearance to the museum visitor, that the owner of the workshop had walked across the sawdust on the floor and stepped outside to get an RC Cola.

If you are able to visit Raleigh, that portion of the NC Museum of History is a sight to behold. Glass walls allow one to see everything in the shop.

He contributed to the development of the M1 Carbine, invented the floating chamber, and was gifted machinist/gunsmith. At one time in the late '90's, I had a "German" artillery Luger to sell with no German proofmarks. Why no proofmarks? He made it himself on the bench at his shop.

 

[Beagle-zebub]

"Marsh" would always wear bib overalls and carried a 1911 Colt on each side pocket, which usually gave reporters an excuse to look elsewhere for a news story.

This! Always two--what were the handles made out of, pearl or something like that? Those were the ones he pulled out on my grandpa and Mr. Beard.

The state of North Carolina, after Marshall Williams passing, dismantled his workshop, board by board, brick by brick, labeled everything, and shipped it to Raleigh. A special room in the NC Museum of History was set aside. The shop was reconstructed completely, and the items inside the shop gave the appearance to the museum visitor, that the owner of the workshop had walked across the sawdust on the floor and stepped outside to get an RC Cola.

This too! Grandpa said he went to the museum 20 years or so after the book, and some minute detail like a pack of cigarettes in just the right place and position freaked him out a little.

D. Buck, can you tell me anything more about his wife and his brother? They both pop up briefly in the book.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Back during the Rev War Bicentennial, I was a member of the 1st NC Regt of Foot, and Mr Williams' relatives were scattered amongst the unit, His brother, son, and grandson, I remember, a little. But its been 30 years ago since that association.

I'll see if I can locate Dave ("Carbine's" nephew & namesake) Williams' widow, Susan, and see if she can assist. All the Williams' are buried in the graveyard at Old Bluff Presbyterian Church. Old Bluff is the oldest Prersbyterian Church in the Presbytery.

According to Wikipedia: "On August 11, 1918 in Cumberland County he, David Sr, married Margaret Cooke and they later had one child, David Marshall, Jr." Her full name was: Margaret Isabell Cook Williams (1900 - 1988). Upon her death in 1988, "Surviving are a son, David M. Williams Jr., of Godwin; three grandchildren; and four great-grandchildren. Carbine Williams' son David Marshall JR died in 2010.

I will check with friends here in Fayetteville and see what I can learn.

 

[Mr. Standfast]

Yes, he was a somewhat more temperamental person than James Stewart in the movie. I used to think writers credited him insufficiently with the development of the M1 Carbine (well, he said so), and indeed his part in the design was important. But later I found out that the story is more complex. The design originated in Williams's full-power military rifle design, which offered some advantages over the Garand but came too late to replace it. At the carbine stage of the project the story is one of his being left out of the Winchester design team because he was a notoriously slow worker, brought into it because of his ability, removed due to being too much of a prima donna for the others, brought back as a consultant, etc.

Rutherford the nuclear physicist was once asked in his old age how he knew these electron things existed. "I can see them!" he said. Maybe Williams's very limited scientific education let him see things other people couldn't. A good firearms designer, like a good spy, is one who plays his own hand a bit, and wise employers of both know that you can't get the best out of them by making them conform to a plan. But the almost unique haste with which companies had to respond to the M1 Carbine specification made this impossible.

 

[kBob]

I have always wanted to examine one of the .30 -06 Winchester military rifles with removable magazine. Basically a M-14 15 years ahead of time.

Project G41 wasn't it?

Makes one wonder if WWII and Korea might have gone differently.

Come to think of it an M-14 does use a captured tappet system doesn't it?

Williams likely gets no credit for that.

As to muzzle loading first guns.....JMB built his first gun of an old pipe IIRC powered with BP he "borrowed" form his Dad without permission. It scared him and his brother when it basically blew up.

I imagine there are a few folks around THR that did much the same......not that I ever built anything that fired acorns with fused fire crackers ( can you say three second "lock time"?) and eventually electrically fired loose fired cracker powder and steel BBs. If I ever catch my son being that stupid........

-kBob