Dean supporters want NRA endorsement

[cordex]

On Dean,

If GWB signs a renewed and expanded AWB, is he any better?

Yup. I won't vote for Dean against GWB for the same reasons I won't vote for GWB against Hillary. Neither is a good choice.

The Republicans need to learn that just because they're only a little less gung-ho about gutting the 2nd amendment than most Democrats, it doesn't automatically mean that they'll get the gunowning vote.

Very much in agreement.

On other stuff,

The circumstances surrounding the Six Day War and Iraq aren't even remotely comparable.

Both were preemptive strikes at nebulous threats.
If anything, the threat to the Isrealis was far greater than the threat that Hussein has ever posed to us - even with WMD. The US could survive a nuking or two. Isreal will not survive the first successful invasion by the surrounding countries.

If the Egyptians didn't intend to do a little fighting, why'd they kick out the UN forces just prior to bringing in their troops and sealing the Gulf of Aqaba to the Israelis?

Plus, the Israelis have fought wars with their Arab neighbors about once a decade since they have been a country. There have been numerous attempts to "push the Jew into the sea" before and after the Six Day War. A preemptive strike from Israel in such a situation is hardly less justifiable than a preemptive strike from the US on Iraq because we thought he had weapons we thought were too dangerous.

C'mon, I thought you liked to play with moral equivalance!

Israel has it's share of fanatics as well.

Yup.
So does the US. Ever hear of the Aryan Nations? La Raza? American Nazi Party? The Screen Actors Guild?
I tend to be a bit more judgemental of a people whose chosen leadership's main goal is the eradication of the Jew. Does that mean I give Isreal a free pass? No, sir.

Besides, you missed the last part of what I wrote about compromise is necessary on both sides for peace to happen.

When "compromising" with someone who demands your utter eradication, where is the middle ground?

 

[glocksman]

If the Egyptians didn't intend to do a little fighting, why'd they kick out the UN forces just prior to bringing in their troops and sealing the Gulf of Aqaba to the Israelis?

Matter of national pride, perhaps?
Having to hide behind the UN's coattails isn't conducive to the establishment of pride.

The point is that Begin and Rabin (if the Rabin quote is accurate) have both stated that the Egyptians in the Sinai posed no real threat to Israel at the time.

The war in Iraq was sold to the American people on the basis of WMD and the threat that Saddam would provide them to terrorists.

If anything, the threat to the Isrealis was far greater than the threat that Hussein has ever posed to us - even with WMD. The US could survive a nuking or two. Isreal will not survive the first successful invasion by the surrounding countries.

Israel wasn't under a real threat, or was Begin lying?

The Six Day War is still a subject of much debate and disagreement. It's obvious that you aren't going to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine unless you can refute Begin, Rabin, and Moshe Dayan (Dayan said Israel conquered the Golan because farmers in the northern settlements simply coveted the fertile land).

C'mon, I thought you liked to play with moral equivalance!

The suicide bomber and the IDF bulldozer operator who ran over the unarmed protester are indeed equivalent. Sharon and Arafat are equivalent.

Let's put it this way.

Were I a Palestinian in the West Bank, I wouldn't go strolling down the street wearing a Semtex suit and kill unarmed civilians, but I would pick up the gun and the knife and kill as many IDF troopers as I could.

The various Palestinian groups' main fault is killing civilians in Israel proper and not focusing on killing the IDF troops holding down the West Bank.

The Israelis are occupying a people against their will. How dare the Palestinians resist it. After all, the Bible says the land is Israel's.

I tend to be a bit more judgemental of a people whose chosen leadership's main goal is the eradication of the Jew.

I tend to be a bit more judgmental about a country that claims to be the only democracy in the region and gets billions in aid from the US every year, yet engages in ethnic cleansing to build 'settlements' in an area that isn't their land to begin with.


So far neither side is willing to compromise at all. Israel keeps adding on to those 'settlements' while Hamas and Islamic Jihad keep on sending suicide bombers out.

 

[Futo Inu]

Dean's no real friend of gun owners - he's merely politically expedient. He should get a "C" rating at best - still, he's the best among the Dems, so in THAT RACE ONLY, he ought to get an endorsement.

 

[cordex]

The suicide bomber and the IDF bulldozer operator who ran over the unarmed protester are indeed equivalent.

IF and ONLY if the IDF 'dozer driver intended to kill the protestor. I have to wonder if he had any inkling that she was in front of him.

Sharon and Arafat are equivalent.

Both have done some pretty awful things in their past, but I don't know that I'd agree they are equivalent.
Never heard Sharon advocate the genocide of all Muslims.

Were I a Palestinian in the West Bank, I wouldn't go strolling down the street wearing a Semtex suit and kill unarmed civilians, but I would pick up the gun and the knife and kill as many IDF troopers as I could.

*shrug* I guess I could understand your position in that case.
Would you hide amongst unarmed protesters and fire from behind children so that return fire is either impossible or causes mediagenic (for you) casualties?

The various Palestinian groups' main fault is killing civilians in Israel proper and not focusing on killing the IDF troops holding down the West Bank.

But see, that's the thing. They have this little fault.
"He was a great guy. His only fault was that he tended to murder innocent people from time to time. Other than that, his actions were above reproach"

The Israelis are occupying a people against their will.

So are we. Oh sure, some Iraqis want us there, but there are an awful lot that want us out and want to be back in power.
So are the British. There are quite a few Irish Communists and Nationalists that aren't too happy living as subjects of the Crown.

I tend to be a bit more judgmental about a country that claims to be the only democracy in the region and gets billions in aid from the US every year, yet engages in ethnic cleansing to build 'settlements' in an area that isn't their land to begin with.

Hrm.
"Ethnic cleansing"? Stretching the definition a bit. By that definition, racists in the US were guilty of ethnically cleansing their communities. Heck, from what I hear, there are still cities with "don't let the sun set on you here" signs not too many miles from where I'm sitting. Disgusting, disturbing, and wrong ... but not really my definition of "ethnic cleansing".

How do you feel about settlements that were built on previously unused land?

So far neither side is willing to compromise at all. Israel keeps adding on to those 'settlements' while Hamas and Islamic Jihad keep on sending suicide bombers out.

*laugh*
Does this statement not strike an ironic chord with you?

 

[Moparmike]

Funny, I dont remember this thread being titled "Bicker and babble inceasantly about Israel, Palestine, and Egypt." Odd.

 

[glocksman]

Funny, I dont remember this thread being titled "Bicker and babble inceasantly about Israel, Palestine, and Egypt." Odd

Guilty

Sorry for the derailment. I won't discuss the issue any more in this thread.

 

[Mark Tyson]

I agree with the other guys that we shuold support the most pro-gun candidates IN THE PRIMARY. Vote for whoever you want in the election.