Debate: Hypothetical cleaning situations with black powder

[orpington]

A friend and I were discussing hypothetical situations with regards to black powder:

1. You are in the middle of the woods for days and all you have is your rifle you just fired with black powder, matches, and a vessel for boiling water. Black powder is potassium nitrate, carbon & sulphur. Detonating the aforementioned creates salts. If you poured hot water down the barrel is this alone sufficient to prevent corrosion? That is, presumably you have dissolved the salts but residue remains behind?

2. Same scenario less matches. IF the answer to the first question is yes, would just cold water flush away the salts?

3. Is there any contraindication to using Hoppe's and cleaning up with black powder? I have never heard anything as such. Maybe my friend thinks this is contraindicated if it is used ONLY and not AFTER flushing the barrel and other fouled parts with cold soapy water followed by boiling water.

 

[BHP FAN]

I clean with cold water just before leaving the range. then I'll usually clean with hot, slightly soapy [dish soap] water, flush with hot clean water, then oil it up like any other gun, and put it away... just inspected my ROA that I put away a year ago, and it looks like it was cleaned yesterday.

 

[orpington]

Yes, I have never had a problem with how I clean and oil. This is just how you hypothesize on a stool at the gun club bar.

 

[Malamute]

Cold water cuts black powder fouling just fine. Ive used river water right out of the river. It isn't as good as hot water, which also helps the metal to dry after cleaning, but it cuts it. Use dry patches to get the barrel dry before oiling or reloading. Id have zero problem cleaning with cold water if its all there was convenient. If in doubt, just try it next time you shoot and see how it does.

I have cleaned my old 1886 Winchester with only Hoppes No 9. It worked fine, no problems. It goes through clean patches like crazy compared to smokeless, but it does clean the fouling out. Figure the first 5-6patches will be black as can be, it gets better quickly after that. Patches worked better when very wet, compared to damp with smokeless.

Depending on where, meaning dry climate or not, it probably isn't going to hurt the gun not to clean it right away. I had a cheap percussion revolver I kept in my truck, Id shoot it about once a year to freshen up the loads. One time I went to get it out and realized I'd shot it the year before and forgot to clean it. It had been in the tool box of my truck uncleaned for a year. I expected it to be a useless wreck. It cleaned up ok, with some minor pitting, nothing that hurt its function. That was northern Az.

I also bought an Uberti Navy copy at a gun shop. Nobody was interested, it looked horrible (bore looked like it had fur), it had been shot and not cleaned. I asked if I could do a quick cleanup on it, the guy said sure. The bore and chambers had some very minor pitting, but cleaned up easily. I bought it for $100. Have no idea how long it was left uncleaned. Very dry climate here. I think most people, especially non black powder shooters, though not restricted to them, make out cleaning a black powder gun to be a way more complicated or difficult job than it is.

 

[rodwha]

Water with some form of cleaning apparatus (patches or bore mop) ought to clean it well enough, but it would still need to be oiled. How long it would be ok would likely depend on the humidity and whether or not your in a salty environment.

I had read of someone using Ballistol if there wasn't going to be time to properly clean up. I decided to try this and left my pistols in my humid TX garage for a couple of days and found it worked quite well. The idea was to saturate the fouling with oil leaving no room for moisture.

 

[Branko_D]

I also bought an Uberti Navy copy at a gun shop. Nobody was interested, it looked horrible (bore looked like it had fur), it had been shot and not cleaned. I asked if I could do a quick cleanup on it, the guy said sure. The bore and chambers had some very minor pitting, but cleaned up easily. I bought it for $100. Have no idea how long it was left uncleaned. Very dry climate here. I think most people, especially non black powder shooters, though not restricted to them, make out cleaning a black powder gun to be a way more complicated or difficult job than it is.

Truth. If you can't clean it after shooting for some reason, you can just soak the damn thing with oil and it won't rust, because salt doesn't rust steel on it's own without moisture.

You can clean the gun without any water whatsoever, anyway. My gun hasn't seen water. I just use oiled patches to clean it and occasionally a brush, and a pipe cleaner as a nipple pick. A bit of oil on paper patches and run them through the bore until they come out clean, and then the same with the cylinder. It's done in 15 minutes and there's no water involved.

Three months back, my gun shop was out of ballistol. Not wanting to use petroleum based oil in a black powder gun because that turns into tar, I just took some ordinary vegetable oil to clean it.

Action gummed up after three months of shooting like this every weekend, because vegetable oil and a few hundred stout loads worth of black powder fouling turns into sticky sludge in the action and I didn't take it apart in this time. Took it apart, brushed the parts and removed the gobs of oily sludge, works perfectly and there's no rust anywhere as expected.

Of course, restocked on ballistol now and that doesn't become sticky so easily, but point is, you can use just about any oil if you shoot regularly and it'll work and it won't rust, and there's no need to tear down the gun and boil everything in hot water like it's a surgical instrument.

The only thing is, if you're going to load it and leave it loaded, use some alcohol and get oil out of the nipples and cylinder, because oil eats primers of all sorts, including percussion caps. Nipples which are greasy or not properly cleaned are the main suspect when there is a misfire.

 

[4v50 Gary]

What Malamute says. Cold water will dissolve the salts for flushing, but hot water helps to promote drying the barrel.

 

[Malamute]

The only thing is, if you're going to load it and leave it loaded, use some alcohol and get oil out of the nipples and cylinder, because oil eats primers of all sorts, including percussion caps. Nipples which are greasy or not properly cleaned are the main suspect when there is a misfire.

I deal with this by usually just loading the gun as soon as its clean and dry, and not oiling the chambers.

 

[Fingers McGee]

3. If you are using Hoppe's 9 Plus Blackpowder solvent (NOT Regular Hoppe's 9) you can skip the water.

 

[AJumbo]

It's been a long time since I've used water to clean my rifles. I generally alternate solvent-wet patches and dry ones until they come out clean, then oil the barrel inside and out. If water was all had, I'd use it. In HS science class, I learned that cold water breaks down carbon more quickly than hot water, so I wouldn't feel compelled put a pot in the stove. Oil would still be mandatory.

 

[Noz]

Urine makes an acceptable black powder cleaning solvent. Fill the barrel, slosh a patch around, drain, patch dry and grease with whatever organic is around.

 

[lysanderxiii]

All I know is spit keeps a Sharps going a few more rounds.....

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

yes cleaning with hot or cold would work if you had no choice like while hunting.
On other hand I have not cleaned at all while on a 2 week hunt will no ill effects.
Pee down it if you absolutely have too and swab.

As to Hoppes' they make a Hoppes #9 plus that is made for BP

 

[Panzerschwein]

I'm currently reading Ned H. Robert's "The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle" and he describes a method thus:

-Boil about 2 quarts water.
Put a funnel in the muzzle and dump the water down the barrel, using a towel wrapped around the muzzle to protect the hands from hot water spills.
-Follow with about 5-6 clean dry patches down the bore after gun has cooled a bit but still warm.
-Follow with 5-6 oiled patches down the bore to get any remains bits of fouling
-Put a couple drops of oil in the nipple
-Wipe of lock, hammer, etc with an oiled rag. Make sure to bust a few caps on the nipple before loading to blow out the oil.

That is one authentic and reasonably easy method that requires no disassembly, ideal for around a camp fire in the woods type scenario. Let's just say this author knows his stuff and had shot a few muzzle loaders in his time. The fact that he recommends this method is enough for me.

 

[swathdiver]

If I were in the field 2-3 days and fired on the first, that evening in camp I would wipe the bore clean with patches and bore butter. If staying in the field longer, I figure I would boil up some hot water for the barrel on the third or fourth night.

Thus far, the former method works just fine for rifles and sixguns.

 

[35 Whelen]

I'm new to BP and then only load it in 38-40 and 44-40. After firing 20 rounds through my 1866 44-40, o pushed two tight dry patches through the bore (both which came out pretty loaded with carbon ) and took a peek down the bore. Much to my surprise the bore shone like a diamond in a goats hind end. This was after shooting Pyrodex P. I tried the same thing with Swiss 3f and obtained identical results. Of course I went on to completely clean them with Ballistol and water, which was super easy at the point, but.if all I had was patches, I'd just use them. Maybe ignorance is bliss though.

35W

 

[Mike OTDP]

FWIW, I've been in a similar situation shooting overseas where they weren't allowing us to take the guns off the range except to/from the airport. I wound up carrying a small Tupperware container of patches soaked in Ballistol. Worked OK.