Debating changing my carry gun philosophy again

[chaim]

It has been about 5 or 6 years since I last revisited the assumptions and functions for when I select a carry or home defense gun.

I gave up my 1911s for carry. I am OK with striker, DAO or DA/SA, but I do not want a manual safety on my carry and home defense guns. It is one more thing that in the adrenaline dump of a life or death situation that can go wrong. I have DA/SA guns, DAO and striker guns that I use for defense.

Now, I'm half considering going back to 1911s. It will take a lot of holster training to get used to having to disengage the safety reliably again. I can't be 100% sure that I won't make a mistake if I'm attacked. But...

I shot one of my 1911s for the first time in probably, well, 5 or 6 years the other day at the range. It was all steel so it was heavy (for easier shooting), but it was my Officer sized RIA 1911 CS. Even though I've already shot many hundreds of rounds in my Glock 19 in the couple weeks I've owned it (probably 1000 or slightly more), and even though I haven't shot a 1911 in years, I easily outshot my Glock with the RIA. I didn't have any of my CZ 75s (PCR, P01, Compact, or full sized) to compare, but generally I shoot them very well, but I do throw off the first DA shot a bit before settling in with the SA shots after the first shot (the DA first shot is always on target, but a couple inches away from the rest of the group).

I just shoot a SA pistol better. Add in the 1911's grip angle which is the only one that is as natural for me as the CZ, and it is hard for me to find anything else (except maybe a revolver) that I shoot as well (other than the 1st DA shot, I do shoot my CZs about as well, but that shot does throw my group a bit).

However:

• I'm not sure I want to upset my carry choices again. While it has been a while since I made the no manual safeties decision, I have changed a few of my carry guns lately. MD was effected by Bruen, and I'm weeks away from being able to carry daily (instead of a few hours a month plus a few more days a year some weekends and vacations on my UT non-resident permit). That had me replace my SIG P290 with a SIG P365, and as much as I love my CZ P01 and PCR, I got a Glock 19 which is a similar size for its lighter weight (I plan to carry both the PCR and G19, but I suspect the G19 will get a lot more use). But that was a minor change, going to a totally different manual of arms and totally different way to put it into action is something else.
• Again, the amount of time it will take for disengaging the safety to be second nature will take some effort. Even then, small motor skills suffer under adrenaline and one can forget under stress.
• More importantly, smaller 1911s tend not to be as reliable (my RIA 1911CS is a bit less reliable than I'd like for a carry gun), so I might have to go no smaller than a Commander sized 1911, or pony up some serious cash for a small dedicated 9mm 1911 design like the SA EMP series. I already have a good stable of carry guns, this is money that I don't need to be spending.
• Any 1911 tends to be more ammo sensitive than the SIGs, CZs and Glocks I currently have. I'd have to potentially spend a lot of money on several defensive loads to find one that would work. I already have my defensive loads selected and tested for my SIGs, CZs and Glocks
• If I do go this way, I won't be standardizing on 1911s. I'll likely still use my Glocks and striker action SIGs. I'm not as sure about the decocking DA/SA guns though, when I go to disengage the non-existent safety after training to do so on a 1911, the decocker may cause issues (though, if it is already decocked, as it would be, it wouldn't be a big deal). This would mean I'd be going back to what I got away from when I made the decision to drop the 1911s and other guns with manual safeties (standard CZ 75Bs) from carry and home defense duties... multiple manual of arms, multiple ways to put the gun into action, and a larger difference in the guns I am using for defense (DA, SA, and striker). I just dropped my DAO (other than revolvers) in order to lessen the styles of actions I use.
  
• 1911s are much more limited in capacity than I'd prefer (I didn't mention that, but I'm in the more rounds the better crowd). Though, in .45ACP or 10mm, an 8+1 capacity is acceptable IMO (heck, in 9mm it is acceptable as well, but there is a difference between acceptable and ideal). Still, I prefer 10 or more rounds when away from home (at home I usually have 2 guns in my quick access safe by my bedside, additionally I just got a new quick access safe to put my carry gun in overnight, and when I'm not going to bed, I often carry around the house, plus I have a Mini-14 that just needs a mag seated if I can get to my regular safe in time).

But then, very few guns shoot as accurately as a 1911 does for me. Hmm...


Note:
For now, no big decision is being made. I'm still going to sell my RIA 1911CS and replace it with a more range friendly full sized steel 1911. However, my Commander sized S&W 1911PD that I was going to sell to help fund a nicer 1911 may stick around, at least until I decide for sure about adding 1911s back or not. So, instead of looking at the nicer Dan Wesson, SA, and Kimber options for my full-sized, I'll probably look to the cheapest Kimber and SA options plus Ruger and RIA. Other than possibly adding an EMP, I already have the gun that I would use if I make this decision.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I carry a Taurus spectrum and a 9mm G2. Safety's always off. On the 9mm. Spectrum does not have a safety.

 

[LiveLife]

I gave up my 1911s for carry. I am OK with striker, DAO or DA/SA, but I do not want a manual safety on my carry and home defense guns. It is one more thing that in the adrenaline dump of a life or death situation that can go wrong. I have DA/SA guns, DAO and striker guns that I use for defense.

But then, very few guns shoot as accurately as a 1911 does for me. Hmm...

As my signature line states, holes on target speak volumes. And no holes on target? ... Well.

Whenever someone asked me to help them pick out a SD/HD gun, I have them shoot as many guns as possible and let the holes on target speak for themselves. In the end, whichever gun you can shoot most accurate fastest, to me, is the obvious choice.

Over the decades, I have taught point shooting to hundreds of people and now I recommend the gun that have best "natural point of aim" with eyes closed. Such guns will allow fast shots at multiple targets producing POI at POA (Yes, I said eyes closed) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...or-her-first-time-today.908729/#post-12369077

We also translated this into match shooting. Whenever new match shooters wondered what match guns they should get, we would set up "Bring your other guns to match practice day" and duplicate our USPSA match stages and have shooters run through with different guns. By end of practice day, guns they shot best would score highest hits and lowest stage times. My first run with Glock 17 I never shot before (I went, "What? Who would make a gun out of plastic?"), I got faster stage time than Sig P226 I was very familiar with. I couldn't believe faster stage time so I ran the stage again and I got even faster! Shortly after, I sold my Sig and bought a G17 then later two G22s to replace both 1911 and Sig P226 to meet major/minor power factors.

 

[crestoncowboy]

I can shoot my nighthawk, my Gold cup, my 460, all my 44s (well all but one) , my 10mm p-220, my five seven etc etc etc all considerably better than my Glock 27. I don't even think about carrying them. I can hit what I need with the Glock and I trust it 100%. It's slim enough for iwb, and light enough to be forgotten. Decent enough capacity. Safe enough but no safety Etc etc. I have plenty of guns i could go back and forth with. But ive never felt compelled to do so. And ive carried for 20 years and never pulled my gun... so if id spent long nights pondering in it, it would have been in vain anyway

I carry a carry gun for carry. I compete with a competition gun for competition. I hunt with a hunting gun when I hunt. Lol

But carry what you feel is best for the purpose.

 

[chaim]

As my signature line states, holes on target speak volumes. And no holes on target? ... Well.

Whenever someone asked me to help them pick out a SD/HD gun, I have them shoot as many guns as possible and let the holes on target speak for themselves. In the end, whichever gun you can shoot most accurate fastest, to me, is the obvious choice.

Which gun can I get accurate rounds on target the fastest? My 1911s (if I didn't have to worry about the safety, but that's my worry, something extra to go wrong under stress), followed by my CZs (even with the first round flyer, it would be on target at any likely, and many not-so-likely, self-defense ranges). My revolvers are pretty good for that too, for the first round or two, but due to recoil, any revolver I'd carry would be slower on the follow up shots (a 3" small framed revolver is the largest I'd likely regularly carry, though a 3" medium frame might be an occasional carry). My SIG P365 and Glocks aren't bad though, and with more practice may come pretty close to the CZs, and be easier to carry as well.

I can shoot my nighthawk, my Gold cup, my 460, all my 44s (well all but one) , my 10mm p-220, my five seven etc etc etc all considerably better than my Glock 27. I don't even think about carrying them. I can hit what I need with the Glock and I trust it 100%. It's slim enough for iwb, and light enough to be forgotten. Decent enough capacity. Safe enough but no safety Etc etc. I have plenty of guns i could go back and forth with. But ive never felt compelled to do so. And ive carried for 20 years and never pulled my gun... so if id spent long nights pondering in it, it would have been in vain anyway

I carry a carry gun for carry. I compete with a competition gun for competition. I hunt with a hunting gun when I hunt. Lol

But carry what you feel is best for the purpose.

Good point. A carry gun isn't only its accuracy, but the whole package. If a gun is accurate "enough" but smaller, lighter, etc. to make it a better carry gun, it still could be a better candidate for carry than a more accurate gun that isn't quite as ideal for carry for one reason or another.

 

[LiveLife]

Which gun can I get accurate rounds on target the fastest?

Yes, draw from holster to bang, bang, bang, bang on multiple targets like this - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trigger-control.834737/page-2#post-11245640

I usually put 4 copy papers on cardboard backer and shoot a round each as fast as I can shoot from holster draw. (I will circle, square, diamond, triangle each hole for each pistol).

In the end, whichever gun that produces holes closest to center dot on each copy paper fastest on shot timer wins.

 

[Old Dog]

My 1911s (if I didn't have to worry about the safety, but that's my worry, something extra to go wrong under stress)

The manual safety on a 1911 is not a factor if one actually trains with the platform. People need to stop overthinking about stress and just practice and train.

For the past thirty years or so, whenever I draw any handgun other than a 1911, my thumb performs the action of swiping off the frame-mounted safety. Does it add any extra fraction of a second for me acquiring sight picture on target and squeezing the trigger? I don't believe so.

 

[chaim]

The manual safety on a 1911 is not a factor if one actually trains with the platform. People need to stop overthinking about stress and just practice and train.

For the past thirty years or so, whenever I draw any handgun other than a 1911, my thumb performs the action of swiping off the frame-mounted safety. Does it add any extra fraction of a second for me acquiring sight picture on target and squeezing the trigger? I don't believe so.

That is what most advocates of 1911s and other SAO pistols say (and I used to also). However, there are cases of people being shot for not disengaging the safety in time (and more instances of people finding they didn't but getting into action before being shot). With training, I don't think it is a huge issue, but under stress and during an adrenaline dump your fine motor skills are out the window and you are more likely to make a mistake (such as forgetting to swipe the safety). Do I think it happens often? No. But, in a life or death situation I want to stack the deck in my favor, not put some cards back into the other guy's stack.

The question is, does the added accuracy (for me, not necessarily for everyone) that a 1911 brings counter that disadvantage (and the others I listed in my question)? Does that added accuracy add more cards to my stack than the possibility of neglecting the safety under stress adds to my attacker?


Edit to note...

I'm not talking about swiping the safety off adds time to the draw, with training it is part of the draw stroke. I'm talking about training time to do so reliably when I talk about time. More importantly, as detailed above, I'm talking about, even after training, what may happen to that habit (disengaging the safety) under stress and the adrenaline you'll experience when under attack. I'm talking about the seconds it may cost you when you try to pull the trigger and it doesn't go bang because you didn't disengage the safety under stress.

 

[LiveLife]

under stress and during an adrenaline dump your fine motor skills are out the window and you are more likely to make a mistake (such as forgetting to swipe the safety).

Our USPSA RSO who was my defensive shooting instructor taught local PD/SD SWAT teams (He taught point shooting with front sight of Glocks removed) and often suggested to police officers to try match shooting to improve their shooting skills.

On one match, a seasoned police officer was starting a match stage. When the timer beep went off, there was a "Bang". RSO loudly announced, "Cease fire! Cease fire! Check your drawers. Cease fire!" The officer hooked the trigger of his Glock during draw and shot the range floor, an inch away from his foot.

My supervisor and coworker's sons were PD and Highway Patrol (Wife's cousins are PD/SD) and I got to teach point shooting to LEOs and during eyes closed natural point of aim synchronization with point of impact, most of them would shoot the ground when they were supposed to hit COM of human sized target. Thankfully, all of them ended up shooting POA/POI by end of 4 hour training, fast at multiple targets, even with eyes closed.

 

[The_Quartermaster]

Do what best suits you, but also carries well and shoots the best in your hands.

My own changes was from experiences from the past with me.

-My first carry gun was a G26 Gen 3. Awful ergonomics and horrible grip texture, didn't shoot as straight as my full size guns, printed and was uncomfortable in appendix carry and was only suited for strong side IWB for me.
-Second carry gun was a USP45V1. Big, printed, uncomfortable IWB but kind of fun OWB for open carry to troll Californians and visiting New Yorkers.
-CZ75B was my 3rd. Heavy like the USP45V1, printed, and just as uncomfortable IWB strong too.
-1911 Milspec. Crap sights, heavy, but surprisingly comfortable IWB at the strong side.
-1911 Loaded. Now we're talking, still heavy but the dang thing was eating my shirts at strong side, lol.
-M&P compact, which was more subcompact than compact IMHO. Could be tolerated a lot more being carried timewise but was still a doublestack and still printed, another fail.
-Colt Mustang XSP. Pocket gun for only certain situations like housework and not be uncomfortable or burdened while doing manual labor. Or for deep concealment do to the clothese being worn or places I'm visiting where deep is preferred and a very low risk assessment was realized.
-VP9, absolutely a great gun, but still a fatty because of it's doublestack type, and was still painful. Plus that slide stop position, just no.
-Shield 1.0, my first single stack subcompact. Punched above it's weight in being able to shoot like a full despite it's size and short sight radius. It was the manual safety model, but it never engaged on it's own so it was never a problem despite the internet myths of manuals putting themselves on safe on their own, lol. Needed talon rubber grip tape though, for my hands at least, which tamed it's flip so to speak because my hands had more surface area to maintain it in. I've never felt outgunned with it's 7 round magazine ever, and preferred it when being carried. Wasn't comfortable appendix but it really could be worn even IWB strongside pain free and most importantly, not print.
-Sig P320 Compact, yeah, still like the others, painful, printed, yadda yadda.
-G43, could appendix all day everyday, it's six round capacity was not a real concern and I always carried a spare so there's that. But man, it shot just as bad as the G26 that I had. At some suggestions online from another site, I tied some extensions so I could get a real grip on it. carried well, shot well, still comfortable and didn't print even while appendix, ya, this was the one. Until I figured out that the G43X side by side with the G43 with extensions was the same size but carried two to three more rounds. Math is awesome.
-G43X, where I am at and here to stay, my quest was finally over. Carries the best, shoots the best despite it's size, I know my role and lane as a concealed carrier and it's limits for the gun I am carrying that I would still not shoot with even with a full size at certain distances. The 43X is my jam, I carry for me and not what others try to force POV's with as the only opinion of what I choose that's right for me, is my own.

You just have to find the right one that fits your style, shoots great in your hands, and carries well really. Then run it, train with it, and do you afterwards. Good luck, sir.

Edit to add, I do have winter carry gun odyssey tales as well, but they are for strictly OWB and for only a few months of the year. The current one is a G17 gen 5, I'm not out long outside during winter anyway so it rarely gets carried and why I didn't mention it before.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Which gun can I get accurate rounds on target the fastest?

You practice shooting. But are you measuring your results? Using a timer and a comprehensive skills test? With established standards?

If you aren't using these tools, you'll never find your answer.

All you'll receive here are the answers that we received when we tested our own performance and analyzed the results. Plus, of course, some unsubstantiated opinions.

A long time ago, and over a period of months, I thoroughly tested my performance on the old IDPA classifier with a G36 and a full-sized Kimber Custom. But my results likely (actually almost certainly?) won't be your results.

 

[chaim]

You practice shooting. But are you measuring your results? Using a timer and a comprehensive skills test? With established standards?

If you aren't using these tools, you'll never find your answer.

Of course I know how my accuracy is, but (beyond a general idea) I don't know how my guns compare in shot timing.

One of my laser training targets has a built in timer, but that stops after the first shot so it really only gets me my draw speed from the holster.

Maybe a shot timer wouldn't be a bad investment.

 

[Rexster]

I will probably never shoot a Glock as accurately as I can shoot a 1911, but, I am OK carrying either, for defensive purposes, if I am wearing clothing that can conceal a full-sized, duty/service-level weapon*. (I have aged-out of shooting compact auto-loaders, if chambered for a serious cartridge. Even before that, I decided to stop trying to find a truly reliable 1911 smaller than a Government Model, and stick with full-sized.)

Regarding grip angle, a 1911, with a straight mainspring housing, points “naturally” for me, and, a Gen3/4/5 Glock also points “naturally,” in spite of differing grip angles. At least in my case, there is more to pointability than grip angles. Others’ experiences will vary.

*I actually tend to carry short-barreled revolvers, though not J-Frames, but usually K-Frames, and/or SP101/Speed Six Rugers. These guns will clear a high-riding holster more readily, which is helpful when the ol’ shoulder is having a bad day. Big autos work best for me when I am wearing a holster that rides lower.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

If you can't train yourself to reliably operate a manual trigger safety, then how can you be trusted to maintain proper trigger finger discipline?

There are plenty of situations where your pistol is outside of your holster, when you are NOT in a self defense situation, when it would be better to have a manual trigger safety engaged.

With a P365 you can SAFELY manually chamber the first round, thereby avoiding any chance of bullet setback, by first engaging the manual trigger safety, locking the slide rearward, inserting a round into the firing chamber, easing the slide closed, and pressing the rear of the external extractor inward to pivot the extractor claw outward past the shell case rim, thereby allowing the return spring the pull the slide into battery. In the event of a failure to feed malfunction you can still manually chamber each round and fire.

In the event of a failure to extract and eject malfunction that results in a double feed malfunction, you may want to engage the manual safety while you clear the malfunction.

While you are loading or clearing your pistol of ammunition, a manual trigger safety will help protect against you screwing up.

Pocket holsters are often safer to use with a manual trigger safety engaged.

If you have a manual trigger safety engaged you eliminate the possibility of an unintentional discharge, while reholstering, if the trigger got hung up on an unknown foreign object inside of your holster.

In the case of another person grabbing your gun, it may give you a fraction of a second advantage to regain control of your gun before they figure out how to disengage the manual trigger safety.

If a young child somehow gets their hands on your gun, a manual trigger safety will reduce the possibly that they actually shoot your gun.

It takes less than 30 seconds to install a manual trigger safety into the P365 FCU. And then a few minutes more to file slots into the grip module for the manual trigger safety lever to clear. To better fit my pocket holsters, I cut off the right side manual trigger safety lever, leaving the left side lever intact

Using a manual trigger safety is more for the benefit of everyone else BUT you! If you accidentally shoot yourself that is YOUR business. But if you negligently discharge your firearm in my direction that is MY business! You just gave me legal justification to SHOOT you! I have no legal obligation to find out what your intentions are when you have already used deadly force in my direction.

It seems to be to be a bit reckless to NOT use a manual trigger safety.

If you can actually walk on water I might trust you to safely use a firearm WITHOUT a manual trigger safety engaged. But until you can walk on water, use a manual trigger safety!

 

[chaim]

If you can't train yourself to reliably operate a manual trigger safety, then how can you be trusted to maintain proper trigger finger discipline?

There are plenty of situations where your pistol is outside of your holster, when you are NOT in a self defense situation, when it would be better to have a manual trigger safety engaged.

Totally different things. One involves fine motor skills, something that goes out the window in the adrenaline dump and stress of a life or death situation (basic physiology, you can't train out of that), the other does not. Further, in my personal case, I've trained for keeping my finger off the trigger until I'm ready to shoot since I first handled a rifle in 1989 in basic training. I've never put my finger on the trigger until I was ready to shoot in the 33 years I've handled guns, and in the 20 some years I've owned and been shooting handguns.

I've never heard of someone in a stressful situation forgetting to keep their finger off the trigger, assuming they were already trained to do it. I've read plenty of accounts of well trained people drawing their handgun in a stressful situation and losing time because under stress they did not disengage the safety (either they didn't swipe it at all, or under stress and without the fine motor skills they usually have, the went through the motions but didn't actually hit the safety lever). Heck, forget a self defense situation, I've read accounts (even here and other similar forums) of people who made the switch to striker fired, DA/SA or DAO pistols because they did it in competition.

Even if you are well trained, under stress you may neglect to disengage the safety (at least you may not try to with enough force to actually do so when under stress, or you'll miss the lever). It may not happen often, but it does happen to people. Long ago, I decided against carrying a 1911 for this reason, similar to why I won't carry my LCP with hollowpoints, my RIA 1911CS or my Pf9. They may not fail often, but since they do occasionally, that is enough that I will carry a gun that is more reliable. I don't want it to fail when I need it.

With a P365 you can SAFELY manually chamber the first round, thereby avoiding any chance of bullet setback, by first engaging the manual trigger safety, locking the slide rearward, inserting a round into the firing chamber, easing the slide closed, and pressing the rear of the external extractor inward to pivot the extractor claw outward past the shell case rim, thereby allowing the return spring the pull the slide into battery. In the event of a failure to feed malfunction you can still manually chamber each round and fire.

In the event of a failure to extract and eject malfunction that results in a double feed malfunction, you may want to engage the manual safety while you clear the malfunction.

In the event of a failure to extract and eject malfunction that results in a double feed malfunction, you may want to engage the manual safety while you clear the malfunction.

While you are loading or clearing your pistol of ammunition, a manual trigger safety will help protect against you screwing up.

If you have a manual trigger safety engaged you eliminate the possibility of an unintentional discharge, while reholstering, if the trigger got hung up on an unknown foreign object inside of your holster.

On the 1911, the gun with a safety under discussion, you can't do any of that. The safety locks the slide and you can pull the slide back. You have to disengage the safety to load it and to clear a malfunction.

In the case of another person grabbing your gun, it may give you a fraction of a second advantage to regain control of your gun before they figure out how to disengage the manual trigger safety.

I carry concealed and not open carry. A criminal isn't going to know I'm armed until I need to shoot in self defense, at which point it is in my hands and I'm likely in the process of pulling the trigger by the time he's even processed that I have it.

If a young child somehow gets their hands on your gun, a manual trigger safety will reduce the possibly that they actually shoot your gun.

A safe works better. I'm 52 without kids, and yet, all my guns are locked up when they aren't on my person.

It takes less than 30 seconds to install a manual trigger safety into the P365 FCU. And then a few minutes more to file slots into the grip module for the manual trigger safety lever to clear. To better fit my pocket holsters, I cut off the right side manual trigger safety lever, leaving the left side lever intact

Forget trying to talk me into installing a manual safety on any of my guns that don't already have one (like my P365). I'm asking you to try to convince me that the advantages (accuracy) of the 1911 outweigh the disadvantages of having a safety.

 

[chaim]

Let me clarify what I'm asking from the forum here...

I posted several reasons not to move to the 1911. I posted one strong one to move to it.

Certainly, carrying a gun without a manual safety has its advantages and its disadvantages. Carrying a gun without a manual safety also has its advantages and disadvantages.

How you feel about the advantages and disadvantages of each are a very personal choice. For me, carrying a gun with a safety may work fine 99% of the time, but I had decided that wasn't worth risking. Just like I won't carry a gun that fails about once every 100 shots, I don't want to risk not disengaging the safety due to loss of fine motor skills even that one time.

However, as stated in my OP, I shoot the 1911 better than anything else other than my CZs after the first shot (that shot is an inch or two away from the main group, though still on target at any reasonable self defense range) or a revolver that is too large and heavy to CCW.

So, to be convincing, you need to consider these parameters. My accuracy with a 1911 has me thinking about it. Stay in that direction if you want to convince me. You definitely won't convince me to use a safety on a totally different gun.

Using a manual trigger safety is more for the benefit of everyone else BUT you! If you accidentally shoot yourself that is YOUR business. But if you negligently discharge your firearm in my direction that is MY business! You just gave me legal justification to SHOOT you! I have no legal obligation to find out what your intentions are when you have already used deadly force in my direction.

It seems to be to be a bit reckless to NOT use a manual trigger safety.

If you can actually walk on water I might trust you to safely use a firearm WITHOUT a manual trigger safety engaged. But until you can walk on water, use a manual trigger safety!

Certainly baseless insults and threats against more than 1/2 of the carrying population (including myself) will not convince me. Not carrying a gun with a manual safety makes me more likely to shoot you, give me a break! Just because I don't use a manual safety does not mean I don't have trigger discipline nor does it mean that I'm pointing my gun at anything other than what I intend to shoot. Carrying a gun without a manual safety that is designed to be carried without a manual safety is reckless, far from it.

 

[CDW4ME]

I've carried 1911's in the past, but have consistently stuck with Glocks for awhile.
Glocks? Yes.
1911's? Yes.
Revolvers? Nope.

 

[HPCadm17]

The safety on a 1911 is perfectly placed for seamless deactivation on draw. I have other reasons for not wanting to rely on a manual safety while carrying, but I see no real disadvantage in speed of engagement with a 1911 in Condition 1 over any other method or arms.

 

[chaim]

The safety on a 1911 is perfectly placed for seamless deactivation on draw. I have other reasons for not wanting to rely on a manual safety while carrying, but I see no real disadvantage in speed of engagement with a 1911 in Condition 1 over any other method or arms.

Nor do I, that is not my concern. Fine motor skills degrading under stress is number one followed by simply not doing it (despite training to do so) is number two. The time loss is if it isn't disengaged and you pull the trigger and get nothing before you go back to disengage the safety.

 

[LiveLife]

considering going back to 1911s. It will take a lot of holster training to get used to having to disengage the safety reliably again. I can't be 100% sure that I won't make a mistake if I'm attacked

Let me clarify what I'm asking from the forum here ... I posted several reasons not to move to the 1911. I posted one strong one to move to it.

"Yes, draw from holster to bang, bang, bang, bang on multiple targets like this - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trigger-control.834737/page-2#post-11245640

I usually put 4 copy papers on cardboard backer and shoot a round each as fast as I can shoot from holster draw. (I will circle, square, diamond, triangle each hole for each pistol).

In the end, whichever gun that produces holes closest to center dot on each copy paper fastest on shot timer wins."​

 

[trackskippy]

Nor do I, that is not my concern. Fine motor skills degrading under stress is number one followed by simply not doing it (despite training to do so) is number two. The time loss is if it isn't disengaged and you pull the trigger and get nothing before you go back to disengage the safety.

You can always knock the safety off in the holster and not worry about it.

Still, you should be conditioned to sweep it off anyway.

 

[Tallball]

The centerfire handguns I shoot the best are N-frame revolvers, but I'm not going to carry one. They are somewhat impractical for carry.

Like the OP, I also shoot 1911's better than almost any other full-sized service pistol. However, I feel that they're impractical to carry due to size and manual of arms.

A carry piece is a compromise for most of us. I prefer something smaller and lighter and DAO. If I can't shoot a pecan off a tree with it from 50 yards away, that's okay. That's not what it's for.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Maybe a shot timer wouldn't be a bad investment.

Actually, shooting some kind of comprehensive skills test using defensive gear, from concealment, using a timer, and recording and analyzing your results over time is the only way you'll ever answer your questions.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Good point. A carry gun isn't only its accuracy, but the whole package. If a gun is accurate "enough" but smaller, lighter, etc. to make it a better carry gun, it still could be a better candidate for carry than a more accurate gun that isn't quite as ideal for carry for one reason or another.

Yep. I can get fast accurate hits with my race guns. Or my 5.7. Or a plethora of rimfires. Still didn't make me want to carry them. Especially with that safety on the 5.7. Lol. That and my usp paddle mag releases are the more foreign things I've had to get used to

And I can get majority of hits on my 12x24 100 yd target with my Glock 27.... slowly. Lol. The gun is plenty accurate if I do my part

Actually, shooting some kind of comprehensive skills test using defensive gear, from concealment, using a timer, and recording and analyzing your results over time is the only way you'll ever answer your questions.

And you can get a decent one free on your cell phone too. No reason not to

 

[Jim Watson]

While I have The Stroke down pat, I leave it for competition. I have been known to fail to disengage the safety so as to resume shooting after peering at the target or some such distraction. That only showed up after we got an indoor lane range here.
So:
IDPA - USPSA = 1911 - 2011
Home defense = DA/SA
CCW = DAO