sarduy
Member
what would be the distance of this deer? lets say the deer is 4' tall and a x10 scope. would you take the shot with your rifle?
deer distance?
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sarduy
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i got it at 1332 yards...Too far away for an ethical shot with a 30-06. anyone with me?
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Arkansas Paul
Member
I may be missing something, but it seems to me that for this to be accurate, every deer would have to be exactly the same size. Sorry, they're not. I know you said to assume the deer is 4' tall, but how do you know that in the field? Even in the same area, legal deer can be vastly different sizes, which would throw off the accuracy of this method. So with that in mind, no I wouldn't even consider taking the shot.
Wait a minute, I wouldn't even consider it if I did know the exact range. I don't have a problem with people taking long shots if they're capable, but I've only practiced out to about 300 yds, so that's my max. I prefer to hunt in the woods anyway, so even a 200 yd shot is rare.
Wait a minute, I wouldn't even consider it if I did know the exact range. I don't have a problem with people taking long shots if they're capable, but I've only practiced out to about 300 yds, so that's my max. I prefer to hunt in the woods anyway, so even a 200 yd shot is rare.
fallout mike
Member
I'm with Arkansas Paul. Unless u practice 1300 yard shots.
crazysccrmd
Member
That's what I calculated. Definitely too far for most shooters with an average rifle.
henschman
Member
Ignoring what you said about the deer's height, I immediately thought it was about 1200 m away, being that the average deer's torso is about 18" tall, and the deer's chest appears to be a little under a half mil on the scope. I know an 18" target is 1 mil at 500m. I might take the shot if I had a rifle that was still supersonic at that distance and the wind wasn't too crazy.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That's an understatement!!!
Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
The woods are full of hundred yard shooters armed with 300 yard rifles. 
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Ain't that the truth!!!
Have beer coming out of my nose...I do not appreciate this kind of humor. But, it is funnnnnnneeeeeeyyyyy.The woods are full of hundred yard shooters armed with 300 yard rifles.
12gaugeTim
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Never shoot at a deer if you aren't confident you're going to hit in the upper front shoulder kill-zone.. Since with most deer hunting you won't have the convenience of a stable rest for your rifle and it's going to be a cold bore shot, going over 300 yards is not something I personally would recommend to the ethical sportsman.
Grunt
Member
Yup, way too far for any ethical shot, regardless of caliber. That being said however, I have taken deer out to 665 yards without problem. My trick to accurately ranging deer no matter of size is to not range the deer, but to range the land itself. Scouting in the pre-season is what pays off here. I walk out to the area I expect deer to be in then using an object of known size at my hide location, range that object. Now I have an accurate range to a specific area and a target reference point to go by and log that into a sketch of the area. Anybody that has spent time in the military knows this as a range card. The objects I have ranged out to we know as a TRP or Target Reference Point provides an accurate range which I need to set my sights to when a selected deer comes into that area. Now it's just a matter of doping the wind, make the correct dope change to account for it, put the sights on Bambi and press the trigger. Venison on the table!!!
Hardtarget
Member
I'm in mid-Tenn. Most of the areas I have access to for deer hunting...even a 75 yd shot is a bit long. I just don't have to worry about those long range ethics problems. I just worry about the limbs, the saplins...the cedar trees and the ....dogs running loose! 
They ALWAYS show up at THE wrong time!
Mark
They ALWAYS show up at THE wrong time! Mark
bhk
Member
Even if everything was perfect with the actual shot process, at that distance the deer could take a step just as you pulled the trigger and move far enough by the time the bullet got there to create a wounding shot. Not ethical at all, even if you are the greatest shot in the world.
I frequently watch this of long range hunting on TV and often wonder what shots they DON'T show us. The misses and the wounded animals. Same with the bow hunting shows, except they often show the misses. Every bow shot is a perfect hit or a total miss. Folks, somewhere between and miss and a hit is a crippled, slow dying game animal. FWI, I am an avid bow hunter.
I frequently watch this of long range hunting on TV and often wonder what shots they DON'T show us. The misses and the wounded animals. Same with the bow hunting shows, except they often show the misses. Every bow shot is a perfect hit or a total miss. Folks, somewhere between and miss and a hit is a crippled, slow dying game animal. FWI, I am an avid bow hunter.
Arkansas Paul
Member
It's too far for ANY shooter with an average rifle. Average rifles won't cut it at 1300+ yds, no more than average shooters will.
sugarmaker
Member
Sure! Just paint some little headlights on the bullet and the deer will jump in front of it. Seriously...I'd try stalking it for a while longer.
PreMod70
Member
I would never take that long a shot at a deer that is standing, alert and free to move; the bullet flight time is too long to guarantee a sure shot at that long of a distance. Keep it under 300 yards and the likelyhood of maming is lessened.
Big Bad Bob
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I agree with everyone else on to far to take the shot, Although Im in SC, Im gonna be hard pressed to even see a deer at that range. Well maybe on long, long beanfield.
Farthest shot i have ever taken a whitetail I stepped off at about 265 yards and that was with a .300WSM 150grain Winchester silvertip shooting over a beanfield.
Can you take long shots on whitetail? Yes
Is every hunter in the field capable of making an ethical shot to do it? No
Craig Boddington wrote a great article last year on the ethical long shots for whitetail and I agreed a lot with what he wrote. One thing you have to take in mind is the amount of velocity and foot pounds the bullet you fire is going to have at the point of impact. If its less than the recommended 1,000lbs for an ethical kill on whitetail at the point impact (NOT MUZZLE) then don't take the shot.
I recently downloaded for free a ballistic calculator to my Iphone and I have put it to good use so far on the range for ranging drop, drift and velocity based on conditions at the point of impact. I intend to use this year over the beanfield for my long shots.
We all think that we are daniel boone or davey crockett, and that just because we have a scoped rifle, or these tactical gurus with a zillion mil dots in a humongous scope and can see the target that we can take extreme distance shots. Sadly a lot of hunters don't have the skill or knowledge to ethically put a deer down at over a 100 yards.
Speaking of which Magpul Dynamics has new DVD coming out on Precision Long Range Rifle, i saw the trailer, it looks as if it will have a lot of good info on long shooting.
Farthest shot i have ever taken a whitetail I stepped off at about 265 yards and that was with a .300WSM 150grain Winchester silvertip shooting over a beanfield.
Can you take long shots on whitetail? Yes
Is every hunter in the field capable of making an ethical shot to do it? No
Craig Boddington wrote a great article last year on the ethical long shots for whitetail and I agreed a lot with what he wrote. One thing you have to take in mind is the amount of velocity and foot pounds the bullet you fire is going to have at the point of impact. If its less than the recommended 1,000lbs for an ethical kill on whitetail at the point impact (NOT MUZZLE) then don't take the shot.
I recently downloaded for free a ballistic calculator to my Iphone and I have put it to good use so far on the range for ranging drop, drift and velocity based on conditions at the point of impact. I intend to use this year over the beanfield for my long shots.
We all think that we are daniel boone or davey crockett, and that just because we have a scoped rifle, or these tactical gurus with a zillion mil dots in a humongous scope and can see the target that we can take extreme distance shots. Sadly a lot of hunters don't have the skill or knowledge to ethically put a deer down at over a 100 yards.
Speaking of which Magpul Dynamics has new DVD coming out on Precision Long Range Rifle, i saw the trailer, it looks as if it will have a lot of good info on long shooting.
Big Bad Bob
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PreMod70, when say"moving" to mean a moving target or potential too move?
Bullet flight time for 150 grain .30-06 at 800 yards is 1.17 seconds, unless that deer is running if you dial or hold that scope right, deer movement IMO is not gonna matter.
heres the breakdown:
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2790 -0.5 0 0 2904 0
200 2424 -4.67 10.31 0.23 2192 1.56
400 2093 -32.77 44.55 0.5 1634 5.93
600 1790 -92.97 110.89 0.81 1195 14.01
800 1522 -196.93 220.99 1.17 864 26.65
this data was obtained at http://www.handloads.com/calc/ and for you ballistics nerds like me this is a pretty decent calculator
Bullet flight time for 150 grain .30-06 at 800 yards is 1.17 seconds, unless that deer is running if you dial or hold that scope right, deer movement IMO is not gonna matter.
heres the breakdown:
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2790 -0.5 0 0 2904 0
200 2424 -4.67 10.31 0.23 2192 1.56
400 2093 -32.77 44.55 0.5 1634 5.93
600 1790 -92.97 110.89 0.81 1195 14.01
800 1522 -196.93 220.99 1.17 864 26.65
this data was obtained at http://www.handloads.com/calc/ and for you ballistics nerds like me this is a pretty decent calculator
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Very few rifle calibers, and hardly any hunting bullets have enough remaining velocity to expand reliably and kill a deer ethically at 1,000+ yard.
Even it you did somehow get lucky and hit it, you very likely wouldn't recover it.
rc
Even it you did somehow get lucky and hit it, you very likely wouldn't recover it.
rc
Joemyxplyx
Member
Grunt said:
The last time I did a range card, I had a T&E mechanism on the gun - a .30 Browning with 250 rounds in the belt.
BTW, I saw Dave Penzal on "Gun Nuts" demonstrate ranging using Google Maps on an area where he had a tree stand. Pretty neat.
The last time I did a range card, I had a T&E mechanism on the gun - a .30 Browning with 250 rounds in the belt.
BTW, I saw Dave Penzal on "Gun Nuts" demonstrate ranging using Google Maps on an area where he had a tree stand. Pretty neat.
sugarmaker
Member
If you're at 1300 yards missing the range by 10 yards puts you 15 inches off. Misreading the wind by 1mph also puts you 15 inches off. You don't have sighter shots. It's not fair to the animal. Really test your skill and stalk that bugger.
Numbers from 180 gr bullet, 3,000fps, BC=.500.
Numbers from 180 gr bullet, 3,000fps, BC=.500.
You would also need a rifle and ammo combo (and shooter skill) to ensure right at 1/2 MOA at that range assuming perfectly calm winds and no ranging error.
Using that same 180gn .5 BC 3kfps setup, an extreme spread of 20 FPS would be enough to get outside that tolerance. A difference of 20fps is 10" of drop at 1300 yds. The bullet would also be in the air for more than 2 sec meaning there would be ample time for the deer to move from the time the shot broke until impact.
Using that same 180gn .5 BC 3kfps setup, an extreme spread of 20 FPS would be enough to get outside that tolerance. A difference of 20fps is 10" of drop at 1300 yds. The bullet would also be in the air for more than 2 sec meaning there would be ample time for the deer to move from the time the shot broke until impact.
PreMod70
Member
The kill zone is what I was referring to, the deer can be easily hit but the time of flight of any bullet is too long for a accurate hit on a deer that takes one step which it can easily do in one second. There are plenty of accurate rifles that can hit a staionary target but the deer is not a stable target. At long distances game are a very easy target due to their lack of sense of being shot at, no doubt a shooter can kill more deer at long range for that reason but will also maim several in the process.
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