deer loads?

[Axis II]

Deer season will be here before I know it and I'm not going to do the load testing in the middle of November in the rain, cold and snow like I did last year so I'm gearing up for loading my 44mag and 45-70 and want some advice on what you use.

currently...44mag handi rifle is shooting a near max charge of IMR 4227 with 240gr Hornady XTP, firm crimp, cci mag primers and its decent at 100yards but I've read a couple things about using the XTP too fast and at long ranges that it wont perform or comes apart. Maybe an FTX bullet would be better? what do you guys shoot? we have some BIG deer up here. hit a 180lbs dressed 3-3.5yo buck right in the lungs with 120grs of powder and a 200gr tc shockwave sabot at about 60-70yards back in January and he acted like it was a mosquito bite. found him about 80-100yards away and no exit and only a little blood where he fell down. (and people wonder why I shoot them with a 45-70)

45-70 lever action...300gr Hornady JHP with IMR 4198 and cci standard LR primers. I have some h322 and h335 and benchmark also on hand I thought about trying if the IMR 4198 didn't work. I went IMR 4198 because I couldn't find any of the other 45-70 powders locally. I shot one small/medium doe with a LE 325gr FTX factory rounds and it was a massacre but the reloading shop guys told me they hear a lot of negative about that bullet so I went with the 300gr but have yet to shoot it or an animal with it.

what do you guys suggest I try for both?

 

[Wis-Harpo]

I use a Hornady 350 grain round nose bullet in my 45-70. I used IMR4198 till I tried IMR3031, which was more accurate IN MY RIFLE. Every rifle is different. The only problem is that my rifle is a bolt action and can use any bullet profile in it. If you said the 325 gr FTX bullet worked ok in a small/medium doe, I do not think that bucks are not any more resistant to that bullet. I tried the 325 FTX bullet with IMR4198, but never got around to trying it with IMR3031. Reloading shop guys hear a lot of things from the "EXPERTS" just like reloading information found from "EXPERTS" on the internet. If a slow moving 500 grain bullet from a Trap Door Springfield using black powder could kill Bison in the late 1800's. a modern bullet could do no worse of a job.

 

[Axis II]

I use a Hornady 350 grain round nose bullet in my 45-70. I used IMR4198 till I tried IMR3031, which was more accurate IN MY RIFLE. Every rifle is different. The only problem is that my rifle is a bolt action and can use any bullet profile in it. If you said the 325 gr FTX bullet worked ok in a small/medium doe, I do not think that bucks are not any more resistant to that bullet. I tried the 325 FTX bullet with IMR4198, but never got around to trying it with IMR3031. Reloading shop guys hear a lot of things from the "EXPERTS" just like reloading information found from "EXPERTS" on the internet. If a slow moving 500 grain bullet from a Trap Door Springfield using black powder could kill Bison in the late 1800's. a modern bullet could do no worse of a job.

I was recommended 3031 but couldn't find it so went with the 4198, if it doesn't shoot well ill hunt down some 3031. the reloading shop guy said a lot of guys said either no expansion or fragmentation. I could see the no expansion but fragging. I had an sst sabot slug do that from a 12ga. it hit bone and didn't even penetrate the skin very much it just shattered. so many other bullets running around just cant waste money on something that doesn't work.

 

[horsey300]

I was recommended 3031 but couldn't find it so went with the 4198, if it doesn't shoot well ill hunt down some 3031. the reloading shop guy said a lot of guys said either no expansion or fragmentation. I could see the no expansion but fragging. I had an sst sabot slug do that from a 12ga. it hit bone and didn't even penetrate the skin very much it just shattered. so many other bullets running around just cant waste money on something that doesn't work.

Would you be up to trying a round nosed ballistic tip for the .45-70? The sst is a more fragile bullet than the ballistic tip, thus your shattering issue. Nosler seconds and blems new batches are out cheap.
http://www.shootersproshop.com/loading-reloading-bullets/shopby/f/caliber/45-70/isAjax/1.html
I'm also a huge proponent of the Sierra prohunter, and just found some reasonably priced for your .45-70 that I was previously unaware of!
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....er-300-grain-hp-flat-nose-pro-hunter-50-count

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm shooting Cast bullets in my 45-70 for hunting. I'm shooting a 300gr for deer and the classic 405gr bullets for larger game. I'm shooting the same loads in my Trapdoor and Levergun. I was using 4198 with good success before I tried AA5744. Now I use nothing else.

With jacketed bullets for your levergun you might want to try IMR3031, I like the results with jacketed bullets.

 

[LoonWulf]

I really doubt youll have issues with any of the 300grn plus offerings on deer, even big ones. Those 200grn muzzle loader rounds are significantly lighter and not a great comparison. I shot those for goats when i first got my muzzy and one quartering shot didnt exit.

Ive shot a couple pigs with the 300grn hornady jhps launched at 1900ish from my socom at nearly point blank range and all have blown thru. Shot a 500lb cow with a 405 soft point that exited through the shoulder and spine.

Horses suggestion of either the nosler round balistic tip or the seirra prohunters are worth looking at ive had good luck with both bullet types in other calibers.

Right now im using 300grn nosler muzzleloader balistic tip bullets in my socom, and those might be worth a try from your single shot .45-70, cant use them in the lever unless you only load one in the magazine.

 

[horsey300]

Right now im using 300grn nosler muzzleloader balistic tip bullets in my socom, and those might be worth a try from your single shot .45-70, cant use them in the lever unless you only load one in the magazine.

Then again if you can't do it with one in the chamber and one in the tube, maybe you just shouldn't till you've put some more downrange this is a .45-70 vs smallish thin skinned light boned quarry, not elk, bear, moose, and squatches we're talking about bwahahaha! however, I wouldn't have thought of the muzzy pills! That would even increase exterior and terminal ballistics ever so slightly! Making a note for a friend as we speak.....thanks!!

 

[Captcurt]

I really doubt youll have issues with any of the 300grn plus offerings on deer, even big ones. Those 200grn muzzle loader rounds are significantly lighter and not a great comparison. I shot those for goats when i first got my muzzy and one quartering shot didnt exit.

Haven't had a lot of dealings with the 45-70 but I do like the 300gr XTP in 45 LC and in my Ruger muzzle loader. I tried the 200gr and had the same problem as LoonWulf. Seldom had a pass-thru especially if I had any angle at all. I want a blood trail and the 200's didn't get it done. Especially when shooting from a tree. Not a problem with the 300 gr.

 

[eastbank]

300 gr hornady loaded with a healthy dose of H-4198 out of a ruger #3 knocks the socks off deer with a good blood trail and accurett to boot(three shots 100 hundred yrds). eastbank.

 

[LoonWulf]

im pretty sure that deer felt that.....

and for the record that #3 is AWESOME!

 

[horsey300]

300 gr hornady loaded with a healthy dose of H-4198 out of a ruger #3 knocks the socks off deer with a good blood trail and accurett to boot(three shots 100 hundred yrds). eastbank.

Can we really call it a blood trail when you start tying red paint grenades to the deer before you shoot them?? very nice shooting and a beautiful weapon!

 

[Jack B.]

For 44 magnum rifle I load 240gr Montana Gold jacketed soft points or 240gr XTP's with 23gr of IMR 4227 and Winchester Large pistol primers. I shoot them in a Henry Lever action rifle. 20 inch barrel and a twist rate of 1:38. It is my go to load for accuracy at 50 and 100 yards. I have not had any problems with the XTP coming apart or with accuracy. I tend to like the Montana Gold bullets a little better for accuracy. I have worked on a load for this 44 magnum rifle for a long time and the info above is by far the best load I have come up with. But it's a different gun . I have not tried this in a Handi Rifle.

 

[redbullitt]

For the 4570 I like h4198. Shoots very well for me. As to bullets, a nice WFN 405 at most any reasonable speed will do the trick, or if you want something a bit faster the 300g gummy tips at 1600 fps knock em down. Both bullets are plenty accurate with a little load tweaking.

For 44 mag i particularly like the 240 xtp over a good charge of h110, 296, or lil gun. They do VERY well on deer. I use the same bullet saboted in my smokeless muzzleloader a bit faster and it whacks them as well. They do not go far if you shoot heart/lungs inside 75 yards. Very accurate bullet too in everything I have shot.

Never had a bullet failure with the xtp bullets I use on deer. The savage muzzleloader chucks them out at about 1800 FPS, maybe a bit faster. This should be quicker than you will get from a 44 carbine, I think. I get a typical entrance with a silver dollar exit hole. Distances range from 15 yards to 140 yards. Will keep using the xtp fwiw.

I have heard the same iffy things about that 325 bullet. I think it needs a little more speed than most people give it with the 4570.