been doing some thinking-need some input.

[Axis II]

I did hit the range today playing with my 44mag and 45-70 reloads and have a few questions.

1) My marlin 45-70 shoots leverevolution very well with 3 shots touching at 100yards. I tried a load workup with 300gr Hornady HP today and at 38gr IMR 4198 I was able to send 2 shots in a half dollar but had a flier 1.5-2'' away. 38gr was the only tight group I was able to get other than 41gr. Would you try the FTX bullet in a reload seeing how factory gives me higher velocity and tighter groups. I would stick with the 38gr but concerned the bullet may not expand. money is tight so powder, primer and bullets especially had to be conserved so from start 36gr-39gr I will admit I jumped a grain ahead as that's what the book did and noticed I couldn't hold a group except 36gr/38gr/41gr-was okay but not tight. with a big bore do you just call a 2'' group good and be done? also, my 3rd shot on 41gr felt and sounded like it hangfired, what could cause this? would you leave it alone or play with different powder h335/h322 I have on hand or call it good?

2) How spot on are book velocities? Just wondering because when you compare Hodgdon and Hornady, Hodgdon will have a higher charge but says its the same velocity. I understand different firearm and what not for each data but how could it be that far off. Hornady said 42gr IMR 4198 for 300gr .458 bullet was 1900fps but leverevolution factory ammo have a higher MV and doesn't seem to recoil as much as the reloads today shot side by side.

3) I was having weird issues with my Handi rifle 44mag not shooting consistently so did a load workup again today and it still shot a little odd until I hit 23.3gr IMR 4227 and Hodgdon is 24gr. I was able to send 3 shots in about a 2'' circle. being cold today and being that close to max should be okay? Hornady calls for 24.4 as a max. It seems like as the charge went higher it quit acting up. 23-23.3 all grouped within 2'' at 100yards. again back to question #2 book and Hodgdon says different things and from what I've read the 240gr xtp needs to be around 1600 to expand.

4) I am currently out of 300gr Hornady HP in .458 and cannot get them locally unless I drive about 20miles one way or order from midway. Cabelas which is 10min away carries sierra pro hunter 300gr HP for $27.99 or drive the 40miles and get Hornady which has a load workup for $22.99 or order online. If I chose to try sierra and went close to max with Hornady data would I be okay starting them out in the middle where I hit an accuracy node to see how they compare to Hornady. Also, how does sierra compare to hornady for a hunting bullet?

Thank you guys once again for putting up with me.

 

[Grumulkin]

I did hit the range today playing with my 44mag and 45-70 reloads and have a few questions.

1) My marlin 45-70 shoots leverevolution very well with 3 shots touching at 100yards. I tried a load workup with 300gr Hornady HP today and at 38gr IMR 4198 I was able to send 2 shots in a half dollar but had a flier 1.5-2'' away. 38gr was the only tight group I was able to get other than 41gr. Would you try the FTX bullet in a reload seeing how factory gives me higher velocity and tighter groups. I would stick with the 38gr but concerned the bullet may not expand. money is tight so powder, primer and bullets especially had to be conserved so from start 36gr-39gr I will admit I jumped a grain ahead as that's what the book did and noticed I couldn't hold a group except 36gr/38gr/41gr-was okay but not tight. with a big bore do you just call a 2'' group good and be done? also, my 3rd shot on 41gr felt and sounded like it hangfired, what could cause this? would you leave it alone or play with different powder h335/h322 I have on hand or call it good?

2) How spot on are book velocities? Just wondering because when you compare Hodgdon and Hornady, Hodgdon will have a higher charge but says its the same velocity. I understand different firearm and what not for each data but how could it be that far off. Hornady said 42gr IMR 4198 for 300gr .458 bullet was 1900fps but leverevolution factory ammo have a higher MV and doesn't seem to recoil as much as the reloads today shot side by side.

3) I was having weird issues with my Handi rifle 44mag not shooting consistently so did a load workup again today and it still shot a little odd until I hit 23.3gr IMR 4227 and Hodgdon is 24gr. I was able to send 3 shots in about a 2'' circle. being cold today and being that close to max should be okay? Hornady calls for 24.4 as a max. It seems like as the charge went higher it quit acting up. 23-23.3 all grouped within 2'' at 100yards. again back to question #2 book and Hodgdon says different things and from what I've read the 240gr xtp needs to be around 1600 to expand.

4) I am currently out of 300gr Hornady HP in .458 and cannot get them locally unless I drive about 20miles one way or order from midway. Cabelas which is 10min away carries sierra pro hunter 300gr HP for $27.99 or drive the 40miles and get Hornady which has a load workup for $22.99 or order online. If I chose to try sierra and went close to max with Hornady data would I be okay starting them out in the middle where I hit an accuracy node to see how they compare to Hornady. Also, how does sierra compare to hornady for a hunting bullet?

First of all I'll state that I haven't gone to any load book to check your powder charges. Now in answer to your questions.

1. With a Marlin 45-70 I suspect that about a 2 inch group is about as good as you'll consistently get and I'm assuming you're shooting for groups at 100 yards. Also, I don't believe in "fliers" but include all shots fired in the measurement of my groups. A hangfire is caused by too low a pressure.

2. Many times I've found powder charges correlate fairly well with book velocities. That said, I have never use velocities in load workup criteria. I only use group sizes and use the powder charge that gives the best groups.

3. Two inch groups with a Handi Rifle in 44 Remington Magnum is OK in my opinion. I wouldn't get too hung up on needing 1,600 fps to expand. I used 158 grain Hornady XTP bullets out of a 357 Herrett handgun at a slower velocity to take several animals including a Black Wildebeest. The bullets that were recovered had expanded beautifully.

4. I'm happy using Sierra, Hornady, Nosler, Remington and a variety of other bullets for hunting bullets. Sierra 300 gr. HP bullets will kill a deer just fine (I assume you'll use them on deer). Don't believe all the hype you hear about various bullets brands; all those bullets will kill just fine. Really.

 

[horsey300]

^^^^^^well covered!

 

[brewer12345]

If I owned a 45/70 I would buy some cast bullets from Missouri and play with those. A fraction of the price, less powder used, and they will kill deer no problem (especially if you use softer lead).

 

[someguy2800]

First you think to much. Second a 45-70 doesn't need to expand and i would really rather it didn't. I shot two deer this week with a 444 and one this morning with a 45-70 with hard cast bullets, it blows big holes in them and they die. Lastly a single 3 shot group is fine for sighting in a gun but means nothing about the accuracy, you need a much larger sample size to determine that. If you go out and shoot 10 3 shot groups with a load you could get group sizes ranging from 1 inch to 3 inches. So if you shoot 10 different loads with 3 shots each how would you tell if one load was more accurate than another or if it was just random chance?

 

[jmorris]

I have one 1895 in 45-70 that is execptionally accurate with quite "hot" loads. It is easier for me to get a 5 shot group with my 50 BMG than the Marlin. That said, stuff thats not "fun" to shoot, I shoot cold barrel, one shot, most often.

 

[LoonWulf]

I have a pretty good supply of those 300grn xtps if you want a box or two, but i agree ANY .458 bullet commonly available will kill deer dead, dead.
Ive found book velocities to be way off, to nearly spot on, its dependent on more than just the firearm or test barrel used. I have a chronograph (two actually), because while it dosent really matter what velocity my rounds leave at I like to know for drop compensation when im goofing around, and as a factor in assessing the safety of my loads. They arnt that expensive anymore, 60-80 bucks on sale will get you a very serviceable chrono imo they are worth saving 5-10 bucks a week, and keeping an eye on sales for.

 

[ms6852]

Hornady said 42gr IMR 4198 for 300gr .458 bullet was 1900fps but leverevolution factory ammo have a higher MV and doesn't seem to recoil as much as the reloads today shot side by side.

Looking at my Hornady load manual for a 300 gr HP bullet to get a velocity of 1900 fps you need 43.6 grains of IMR 4198. That is out of a 22" barrel. So your velocity will be off if your barrel is not 22" and also you used 2.6 grains less, you must have misread the manual.

Hornady does state that the Leverevolution is 2050 fps but that too is out of a 24" barrel, depending on the size of your barrel, take off at least 25 to 35 fps per inch. If you want to mimic a little of what your rifle shoots the leverervoultion bullets at, you need to load at a minimum 46.2 grains of IMR 4198 to get you to 2000 fps. MAXIMUM LOAD is 48.7 grains of IMR 4198. To me maximum loads are not worth it just to gain an extra 100 fps.

And as has been stated, expansion is not required with a 300 grain bullet, at 1600 fps it is delivering literally over a ton of energy.

 

[Axis II]

I have one 1895 in 45-70 that is execptionally accurate with quite "hot" loads. It is easier for me to get a 5 shot group with my 50 BMG than the Marlin. That said, stuff thats not "fun" to shoot, I shoot cold barrel, one shot, most often.

I did do a cold bore cause that's the way it will be hunted with. I would fire one shot and then set it aside and fire the 44 rifle at another target and then go mark them and walk back and fire the marlin again. Id say 4-5min between each shot. I will say with that grind to fit pad it didn't bother me that much. Maybe 12ga kick with a heavy brass load.

 

[Axis II]

Looking at my Hornady load manual for a 300 gr HP bullet to get a velocity of 1900 fps you need 43.6 grains of IMR 4198. That is out of a 22" barrel. So your velocity will be off if your barrel is not 22" and also you used 2.6 grains less, you must have misread the manual.

Hornady does state that the Leverevolution is 2050 fps but that too is out of a 24" barrel, depending on the size of your barrel, take off at least 25 to 35 fps per inch. If you want to mimic a little of what your rifle shoots the leverervoultion bullets at, you need to load at a minimum 46.2 grains of IMR 4198 to get you to 2000 fps. MAXIMUM LOAD is 48.7 grains of IMR 4198. To me maximum loads are not worth it just to gain an extra 100 fps.

And as has been stated, expansion is not required with a 300 grain bullet, at 1600 fps it is delivering literally over a ton of energy.

22'' barrel on mine. Your right I goofed on that charge and velocity. I probably wont go that high cause I noticed the gun getting a little wild to keep ahold of at 42gr but it did shoot good.

 

[ms6852]

The harmonics for that barrel likes that charge, if you use cast bullets also you could possibly find loads with a lighter load that the rifle could like, try out 405 grain bullets or higher.