Defensive ammo .40 caliber

[.357 magnum]

I just recently switched to 180gr ammo for defensive purposes in my .40's instead of 165gr. I had bought a few hundred rounds of 180gr practice ammo that was on sale, instead of my usual 165gr practice ammo. I noticed I was a better shooter with the 180gr. [less recoil, better placement, and a little faster follow-up shots] So now I am using the Winchester 180gr SXT and the Federal 180gr hydra-shok instead of my usual 165gr defensive loads. Do you think I am giving up too much in the way of stopping power.

The Best to all!

Thank you in advance-Frank

 

[Seven For Sure]

I'm thinking of doing the same. 180's are $1 cheaper for 50 rds. and I find they shoot softer also. I already went from 155's to 165's. As long as you use good HP's, you should be fine. I like gold dot's.

 

[.357 magnum]

Cheaper for 180gr.

Guess I forgot to mention I have been getting the 180gr Remington practice ammo on sale at Wally world for $7.00 a box of 50 I scooped up a bunch of those. Even Regular price CCI blazers are 8 and some change for a box of 50.
Cannot resist at those prices.

Frank

 

[DWARREN123]

If you are shooting better it should not be a negative. Any 40 S&W round can stop a person with correct shot placement, may take more than one round but they will do the trick. The SXT's are suppose to be very good defensive rounds in any grain weight.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Wally world for $7.00 a box of 50

My Wal*Mart barely has any ammo in stock, let alone for that price....Something good in Nebraska...
BTW, I use the 180gr and like the feel of it....

 

[hrgrisso]

To each his own

Hey if you feel your going to shoot better with it, i.e. more confident, there you go, in my mind that makes me think it's a good trade. If your more comfortable with it, and confident, I don't think your surrendering anything.

But what do I know, I carry Cor Bon DPX 135 gr. Barn Burners!

 

[RyanM]

Decent quality 180 gr JHPs will have better "stopping power" than 165s, typically. However, Win SXT and Fed Hydra-Shok are not decent quality JHPs.

My personal favorite is 180 gr Rem Golden Sabers. Federal HST and Winchester Ranger Talons (if you can find someone selling them) are also good.

 

[Scorpiusdeus]

Interesting as I find I shoot the 165 grain better. I'd had some Blazer 180 grain I bought a case of. Didn't care for it.

I like the Winchester Ranger Talon and the Doubletap stuff as well as speer Gold Dot, but the Double tap uses the same bullet, just loaded a little hotter I believe.

 

[Koblenz]

A lot of the lighter bullet loads in .40 are loaded much hotter than the 180 grain loads. I once fired some Georgia Arms 155 grain +p+ .40 in my Glock 23. They list the muzzle velocity of that load as 1300 feet per second. The recoil was worse than that of .44 magnum revolvers I have fired.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I use Winchester Ranger 155's, they chrono 1100 fps out of my 4" XD.

 

[Peter Gun]

I like the golden sabers myself. but i use 165's

Everyone should shoot what they feel comfortable with, but i have to question using 180gr in a .40
At that point, you have similar velocities but a smaller bullet than a .45.
Why not shoot .45 instead?

 

[.cheese.]

Guess I forgot to mention I have been getting the 180gr Remington practice ammo on sale at Wally world for $7.00 a box of 50

WHAAATTT!!!!!!????????????

*rushes to Walmart to buy entire stock*

ETA: makes it to stairs before realizing it's 10 PM. Walmarts in these parts refuse to sell ammo after 10. Or maybe it's 9? Some law I've never actually read of, but I'm sure it's on the books somewhere as Walmart wouldn't walk away from profit if they didn't have to. Heck.... that's probably why they just brought BACK ammo.

As for 180 grain - I find it recoils harder actually. Or... maybe not harder. Differently would be a better word. I prefer 165 grain for both defensive Speer Gold Dot and for WWB for practice.

 

[Coronach]

We use Federal 180gr HST. They seem to work adequately.

Mike

 

[.357 magnum]

Thank you everyone!

To Peter Gun and RyanM I really do agree the best stopping load for a .40 is 165gr and with the Rem Golden Saber, Corbon 165gr, Winchester SXT 165gr it is hard to go wrong. Peter Gun the 180 grains I am using come out of the muzzle at 1010-1015 FPS . I shoot 230 grains out of my .45's and they range from 870-890FPS, but they all [both the .45 and .40] average between 396-and 410 ft-lbs of energy, so you are correct the 180 loads in a .40 are a bit faster but still very equal in the energy they produce compared to 230gr load in a .45 Very good point! You know the 165 grain .40 loads listed above average from 468-485 ft-lbs of energy[they are some real butt-kickers] For now I am going to practice with both loads to see which I am consistently proficient in, then settle. By the way Peter Gun I am a huge .45 fan but I just cannot shake the attraction to the .40 I really like the ballistics and the mag capacity. I bought a new S&W MP .40 cal and am shooting it for the first time Saturday. I am interested to see how the felt recoil is. The MP is supposed to be one of the best polymer .40's around. I will let everyone know. [My wife is gonna kill me, but I also have my eye on another new .45-I think I will lay low for a few months-Christmas is just around the corner]

The Best to You and Yours

Frank

 

[Rexster]

Who is this Mr. Power, and what is he doing that makes everyone want to stop him? I use 165-grain Golden Saber, and have since I started carrying a Glunck in 2002 as a duty pistol. That Glunck malfunctioned with 180-grain stuff. I switched to a SIG P229 in 2004, but still use 165-grain Golden Saber.

 

[1man]

I use Fed HST 165gr. and PMC Starfire 155gr.(but I hear it's discontinued).

 

[CWL]

Whatever the load you use, just remember that it's not enough. That's why its important to practice where to shoot. I hate it when I hear people discuss "stopping power" and count the grains of their bullets.

If anyone recalls the gunfight between 3 LEOs and one BG in PA last year, out of over 100rounds fired, BG was hit 17 times (+11exit wounds) by 6 180gr Speer GDHPs and the rest 55 & 70 gr TAP .223 ammo. The BG kept on fighting even after he was disarmed, but eventually bled out.

Autopsy and subsequent FBI investigation showed that the bullets all performed as they were designed, but BG was able to stay in the fight because of bullet placement. Even though many of the rounds fired were eventually lethal (chest, neck, 6 rounds of .223 TAP thru abdomen), none were immediately debilitating to BG.

It's not the bullet, really.

 

[.357 magnum]

Actually the bullet is very important.

I am Ex LE, been in a number of close quarter gun battles and some that were not so close. Yes there are a lot of misses in these situations because people are moving, and there is always a lot of pandemonium. Bullet technology helps us find loads and bullet types that tend to be more accurate and deadly. When I was in LE I had a .357 mag. Used the old dependable Federal 125gr JHP. Even too this day I can assure you that is a highly destructive round. It killed my hearing though, my hearing even to this day is not what it should be. [That was many years ago, as I am now 51] My hip was shattered by .45 rounds [230gr HP] at very close range . Again I can assure you Had I been shot with a smaller caliber and a lower quality round I probably would not have needed a total hip replacement. Shooting skills are something we should all work on, no matter what. It is a skill we should work at all our life and it also provides a lot of fun and relaxation. I know a lot of the other posters on here that are LE or ex-LE would tell you the same thing. There would not be so much research and study done in this area if it meant nothing. We could all go out and get 22lr revolvers with 8 inch barrels and be great shots. I give the FBI and some others credit for all the ongoing research in this area. Because of bullet technology advancements we have much higher quality and deadly ammo to choose from.

The Best to You and Yours!

Frank

 

[CWL]

.357 magnum, first I want to thank you for your service.
What I am trying to stop is the widespread belief that there exists "magic bullets" -which is why these type of forum discussions are really dangerous. Too many people go out and buy the latest gun + load and then think they're the Terminator, but they never consider practice or professional training as important parts of the total defensive arsenal.

What gets lost in caliber & load discussions is that every round must be placed in a manner that incapacitates the opponent/BG. No amount of caliber or weight or bullet design will do anything to stop BGs if the shooter can't shoot straight, especially during a fluid moving encounter.

Regarding duty bullet selection, LE bullets are sometimes chosen for purposes other than just stopping BGs, for example our CHP pistol rounds specifications mandate the ability to penetrate windshield glass and steel car doors -not necessarily a good thing for HD use. Some reader on this forum may read that "XYZ" Agency uses load-x and then stock their gun full of the same bullets, without understanding the purpose of the bullet.

I am glad you survived your injuries; do you mind sharing what happened and whether your wounding immediately incapacitated you? I think that this is the root of what I am trying to get at.

As for my posting above, the results of that encounter created a maelstrom of rumoring & fear amongst LEO circles. The going rumor was that the 180gr Speer GDHPs catastrophically failed to stop -or- that they fully mushroomed and stopped after penetrating only 1" into BG. Many Agencies started actions to either change duty loads or retire their .40S&W pistols altogether -I believe that one Agency actually traded-in their pistols for .45s as a result. This was all based on hearsay & internet rumormongering. -No one paid attention to the fact that none of the 17 wounds inflicted on the BG during the gunbattle were incapacitating wounds.

For the record, my choice for .40S&W would be 180 grain GDHP, but I would choose any quality manufactured ammo for my SD guns.

 

[obiwan1]

While I agree that it really shouldn't make a difference as long as you are proficient with your chosen load, I think that it's valuable to look to see what the Border Patrol issues since they are in more gunfights than all other Feds combined. They had (i'm not sure if it is still functioning) a test facility in Pennsylvania that tested all contenders extensively to determine their issue load and guns. Their current issue load is the 155jhp (usually Remington - prob a good contract price) at 1200fps out of their old Berettas. Prob close out of the H&K with it's polygonal barrel. The FBI used (i'm not sure about current issue) to issue a 165gr at 950fps for their Glocks. I don't know how much this helps, but it couldn't hurt.