Defensive Ammo recommendation

[DawgFvr]

I have a Mossberg 590 I keep in the house for Home self-defense usage. To be honest, I have disassembled it completely once, cleaned it, oiled it and have never fired it. One of these days...anyway, I want opinions for the best home self-defense loads for it. To date, I have been using Federal 00 Buck during the winter (in case the bad guys are wearing leather jackets and or heavy clothing) and 000 for the summer (more pellets with similar effects as the 00). I was thinking about the Remington reduced recoil 00. Advice?

 

[MrAcheson]

Uh 000 is actually fewer heavier pieces of shot than 00 so you may be going in the wrong direction for summer. The reduced recoil loads are typically just the regular loads with less shot, so you don't get something for nothing.

What you are already using looks ok.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

For the winter you could try what I use. I alternate remington 00 Buck and their copper solid sabot rounds. Here's a picture of what they look like. They are highly effective for defense.

 

[trueblue1776]

For the winter you could try what I use. I alternate remington 00 Buck and their copper solid sabot rounds. Here's a picture of what they look like. They are highly effective for defense.

These are some WICKED rounds. +1,000,000

I get what you are saying 00 for winter, 000 for summer. I never took it that far but it is a good idea.

 

[Starter52]

You can't beat the "double-ought" load for general self-defense. I would not worry about that "leather jacket" stuff. No street garment is going to protect an intruder from a 12 gauge load of 00B.

You don't need a magnum load for an in-the-house gun. The Remington reduced recoil load is a good one. I'd recommend it.

You'll need to practice a bit with that Mossberg. Buy a couple of boxes of cheapie 12 ga. target loads and get ye to the range.

 

[riverdog]

1 Buck is probably the best all around load if you can find it. I don't do shotgun slugs, if I need range I'll go to a rifle.

 

[DawgFvr]

darn...you are right, I screwed up. What I have is 00 for winter and 1 for summer. I never meant 000.

By the way, how often should I rotate in new ammo? Every 3 - 6 months?

 

[DougW]

Both of my 12's are loaded with Winchester Tactical Reduced Recoil 00, with some Ranger Reduced Recoil slugs available, year round. I keep both guns downloaded a couple of rounds, with extra's for full charging. I don't rotate the ammo. Definately go to a reduced recoil ammo. You will love it.

You really, really, REALLY, need to shoot your 590 so you will not be suprised if you are in the spot of actually having to use it. The loads you are using are kind of on the strong side, and you will feel them, definately.

I have a Benelli M1 Super 90 that is about my favorite gun, peroid. I use the buck and slugs all the time. Dead on, and I am completely comfortable shooting the slugs out to 100 yards.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Definitely, get out and shoot that shotgun. Start out with light loads and work your way up to something with more oomph, but get started shooting it and getting very familiar with it- before you need it.

At typical home defense ranges measured in mere feet, any reasonably large shot (#4s or bigger) will likely do the job. I personally do not recommend small shot (aka birdshot) for defensive use, as I have heard of instances where it failed to stop. I personally prefer buckshot, and heavier pellets at that- 00 or 000 in 12 gauge loads. Theoretically #1 buck is best because it gives you a higher pellet count of larger sized pellets than other shot sizes, but I have never had any luck getting it to pattern the way I like so I don't use it. I like load/gun/choke combinations that will keep a buckshot pattern on a dinner plate at 25 yards. No, I don't live in a palace- but if a fight begins or moves outside, I want to be able to have some 'reach' with buckshot before I have to transition to slugs. Tight patterns at 25 yards translate to tight patterns closer in as well, and I like tight patterns. Some folks are genuine scattergun aficianados, nothing wrong with that if that is what you want.

I don't care for 'candy cane' loading either. I want to know for sure what's coming up next on the lifter. I keep magazines loaded one short with buckshot, SideSaddles loaded with slugs and chambers empty. That way I can get what I want when I want it.

I have been very happy lately with Hornady's TAP 00 loads, the red-hulled variety. These loads have gotten troublesome barrels on two different guns to shoot acceptable patterns for me, and that's good enough for me to recommend trying them to anyone. BTW, I seriously recommend patterning your gun with whatever you plan on using for HD, even if it's reloads of Tactical Tic-Tacs- that's the only way to KNOW what a given gun will do with a given load at a given range. These Hornady shells are 8 pellet 00 loads at 1600 FPS, not reduced recoil in the strictest sense but very manageable. The Federal 00 and 000 low recoil loads using essentially the same wad design are supposed to be quite good also, though I haven't tried them yet. Fiocchi's low recoil 00 load has been quite satisfactory in several guns I have tried it with. But different barrels will 'like' different loads, best way to find what your gun likes is to pattern it and see.

As for slugs, my hands-down favorite is the Kent/Brenneke KO 2 3/4" one ounce offering. This isn't a low/reduced recoil load either, it's advertised MV is 1620 FPS. I like it best for its sharp-shouldered hard lead alloy slug that cuts full diameter holes, and for its inherent accuracy. I'll put up with the pounding it delivers to get those advantages.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

According to what I read at FirearmsTactical.com, #1 buck is best inside a house (don't go smaller than this). I don't think you can really go wrong with 00 buck, though. #4 looks iffy with its penetration.

Just buy a bunch of all kinds, #1 and up, reduced recoil and magnum, then set up some target stands and test 'em all out, and have fun.

I just did this in the SoCal desert last weekend and had a blast, so to speak. 6 targets at ten yards, and the seventh at 50 yards for a slug, using a Benelli 1014 (auto that hold 7 shells), and found that standard 9-pellet 00 buck felt to me to be the hardest-hitting load for which I could still shoot rapidly. The reduced recoil stuff felt just a little too light, meaning I could shoot heavier stuff almost as fast and still be accurate. I also used a gel-pad attached to my shoulder so I could shoot a long time without bruising.

 

[Preacherman]

If penetration through walls might be a problem (e.g. living in an apartment complex, or having kids sleeping on the other side of a passage wall), I usually suggest that folks look at #4 shot (not #4 buckshot, but birdshot!) as a defensive load. It's wickedly effective against the human body at close range, but will lose a lot of its velocity and ability to wound when passing through drywall. It's not foolproof, of course, and can still injure or kill after passing through a wall: but it's a lot less likely to do so than the much heavier-per-pellet buckshot loads.

Of course, if penetration is a serious issue, you should be using a 5.56mm. carbine with Hornady TAP 55gr. plastic-point ammo, which is virtually certain to remain within the human body and not over-penetrate: but then you have to be accurate enough to put it where you want it.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Re. rotating ammo-

Given sufficient time, the pressure of the magazine spring (edited to add: in a tubular magazine) can start the sidewalls of plastic hulls collapsing, and can cause the shells to swell enough to be difficult or impossible to chamber. This is more of a problem with loads in patrol cars where the shotguns are carried butt or muzzle down in electric locking racks and get bounced around a lot but it can manifest itself in your bedroom too. It will likely take a good deal more time than will elapse before you rotate the ammo in the course of normal events, but it IS a possibility to keep in mind. Some hulls are less substantial than others after all, construction differs from brand to brand too. Best to shoot up your shotgun's 'carry ammo' every few months and reload with fresh fodder. It's good for you the shooter too, and makes sure you get in some needed trigger time.

This is one of the reasons I advocate using ordinary buckshot and slugs in 'for real' guns, so that you don't leave that beloved special $15 per round SooperManglerProwlerFouler hoarded in the magazine of your HD gun for nine and a half years without being willing to shoot it, with it being mashed by the magazine spring the whole time meanwhile beating up the case heads running it through the action to clear the gun before you go to the range to shoot your ElCheapoPracticeBlammoAmmo. Less likely to have dead primers and bulged hulls that way...


lpl/nc

 

[mauser7]

Back in the late 70's there was a magazine called Handgun Tests, precursor to todays Gun Test. In one of the later issues they branched out into long guns and did a lengthy evaluation on several shotguns, loads and accessories.
They recomended the Remington 1100 in 20 gauge with synthetic stocks. Their reason was low recoil, fast action and completely reliable. And just about anyone for 8-80 could shoot it.
They also built several actual interior walls to the local code and proceded to shot in front of and behind them. As I recall, don't have time to dig the copy out, it was 2X4 construction with 1/2" sheetrock on each side. Just about EVERYTHING penetraed though and though. Remember rule number four be sure of your backstop. Well your walls will not stop any size shot fired from inside the room, unless you have a ballroom in your house.
They recommended #4 buck, still decent size and good number of pellets. Also the choice of the Screat Service at the time. And those folks usually know what works.
Finally they also found that within normal room distances even with cylinder chokes you could juat about cover the shot pattern with the palm of your hand. So remember to aim carefully.

 

[cslinger]

My personal theory on this is that any 00 buck at HD distances is going to be devestating at HD distances against an unarmored target. All of our HD shotties are loaded with some form of HD 00 buck. I have actually had very good results with cheap PMC black hulled 00 buck.

If I cannot take care of the situation with 8 rounds of 00 buck, and my wife can't finish it with another 7 rounds me thinks I best spend my last remaining minutes praying instead of reloading.

 

[DougW]

Re. rotating ammo-


This is one of the reasons I advocate using ordinary buckshot and slugs in 'for real' guns, so that you don't leave that beloved special $15 per round SooperManglerProwlerFouler hoarded in the magazine of your HD gun for nine and a half years without being willing to shoot it, with it being mashed by the magazine spring the whole time meanwhile beating up the case heads running it through the action to clear the gun before you go to the range to shoot your ElCheapoPracticeBlammoAmmo. Less likely to have dead primers and bulged hulls that way...


lpl/nc

The "normal" or "ordinary" buckshot and slugs are the same price as the "wizz bang" reduced recoil tactical loads these days. The difference in shooting the two loads is like night and day. If I had to rely on a 12 gauge for HD (spacifically inside the house) shooting full load 00 buck, I would usa a hand gun. I would gladly trade horse power for the ability to accuratly and effectivly engage a target at close range in a confined space.

Even my Ruger 10/22 with the 25 round magazines would be better than full load buck or slugs in MY OPINION. Well placed shots wins the fight. AND, shooting indoors is not a pleasant thing on your ears.