Defensive use of 9mm on a Black Bear

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Random 8 said:
The bear was killing the family dog right in front of them. They were yelling and throwing firewood sticks at it, which is usually a pretty effective way to chase off a bear. Without a sidearm I would have done the same thing.

And the 25 yards part is why I practice frequently at longer distances. I live and play in black bear and coyote country. An aimed shot at distance is a likely possibility, and came into play Friday night. I've also rolled coyotes to 50 yards and potted snowshoe hares at 20+ with the same handgun. It's not that difficult with practice.
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THIS FACT is being ignored by a few on here.

You actually train/practice for the possible moment when your EDC will need to do a bit more than most would expect.

Good for you,and as was stated, you would make a GREAT neighbor.

If we had time to choose,we ALL would have an 88 magnum [ it can shoot through schools ,dontchaknow ] to use on that critter !
 
Buzznrose said:
I posted a link to this story earlier:

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz6F1j9Z23m

Is there something you can link to that counters this? In the context of this thread?
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No, I didn't come here to argue. If it's your belief that 9mm (or any common handgun round, for that matter) is a proven & reliable fight stopper against man & bear alike, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion. The link you posted contains a total of 4 cherry-picked instances where 9mm won. I'd hardly consider that statistically significant. It speaks absolutely nothing to the efficacy of the caliber itself. Just as in this case, it was almost assuredly shot placement - and perhaps some measure of luck - that made the difference.
 
This story is good for several reasons.
Just like the OP if a dog is being mauled or abused I will do whatever is necessary to defend it. Dogs are nearly always someone's loyal & beloved family member & much like children they are often too trusting & vulnerable to abuse or predation.

There are a lot of threads about which calibers are effective on bears & this incident shows that a head shot with a 9mm will disable a small black bear. But mainly the story is an example of why carrying a gun of any caliber significantly increases the opportunity to defend yourself and others against anything even if some luck or great shooting skills are needed. If the OP had not been armed the outcome of the incident may have been very different. Perhaps a 9mm was not the best gun for the job but that's what the OP had at the time & by virtue of having it on him he had a chance to make his decision to engage the situation. As he described in the story there were other people there but (apparently) only he had a gun & the courage to use it. It's unfortunate the dog did not survive but the OP ended the fight & at least that bear will not be a problem any longer.

Finally it's good to know that there are still a few police departments that place the power of reason & justice over fear of gun-hating media or politics The OP is very fortunate to live in a place where police are normal, thinking, reasoning human beings.. Where I live I would have been automatically arrested, my gun taken away & most probably prosecuted by some liberal media exposure-loving prosecutor.
 
The general silence from the account of an actual bear encounter - with the good, the bad, and the ugly details - is because the curtain is pulled back and there is no mystique from the many fantasy scenarios found in forum discussion. There is only what was. There is no, "Well, I would have..." The chasm between an actual event and forum discussion is the difference between surveillance footage and a Jack London novel.

In forum discussion, the users can control the scenario, with time to consider...and reconsider. Real life deals with uncertain, uncontrollable scenarios with only moments to act; to not act; or to run. There is no time for an optimal solution, ie - "So I went inside and retrieved my [enter "appropriate" bear caliber firearm here] that was loaded with [enter "appropriate" bear defense ammo here] and resolved the situation and everyone was ok." Real life events usually have gritty details, sub-optimal solutions, and collateral damage.

Thanks for sharing.
 
I coyote hunt in the Rockies when i can, with a .223 bolt gun. i carry my Ruger P85 with 147 grn flat nose bullets just in case a black bear shows up. no grizz, YET, where i hunt, just a matter of time though.
 
Encountered Black Bear's on a daily basis during a week long Outpost Camp fishing trip for 25 years. They got quite bold from careless disposal of Fish guts and garbage from unthinking campers. Always brought a 12 Gauge pump and a M-1 Garand. Handguns are a big NO in Canada. Bear Spray worked perfectly on two large Males that would not leave when shouted at or eve letting loose with the shotgun. (In the air) Both Bears took off from the spray and didn't come back. You shoot a Bear in Canada it better have your leg in it's mouth!
 

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Terry G said:
Encountered Black Bear's on a daily basis during a week long Outpost Camp fishing trip for 25 years. They got quite bold from careless disposal of Fish guts and garbage from unthinking campers. Always brought a 12 Gauge pump and a M-1 Garand. Handguns are a big NO in Canada. Bear Spray worked perfectly on two large Males that would not leave when shouted at or eve letting loose with the shotgun. (In the air) Both Bears took off from the spray and didn't come back. You shoot a Bear in Canada it better have your leg in it's mouth!
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And you nailed why I do not hunt in Canada,even though I am a rabid hunter and live on the border.

I prefer to handgun hunt first of all,and if they dont trust me = why should I trust them ?.
 
I keep going there because they're nice people and the Fishing is great. As far as the gun laws, it's their country. I abide.
 
I was doing some electrical work outside today and heard something behind me, about 15 paces away there he was, staring at me. He looked at me for a moment and proceeded on his mission to knock over some trashcans and absconded with a bag. 5 minutes later, once again, back for the second bag. I made noise and tried to stir him back up the bank but he wasnt really afraid, I was thinking about the fact that my gun was about 20 paces away in my car and what I would do if he was more aggressive or determined.

It's always a shame when we have to interfere with nature and shoot nuisance wildlife. Always makes me cringe when some idiot is out there feeding bears and getting close. Might as well sign its death warrant.
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He stood there about 50 feet up on the bank watching for the rest of the time I was there after successfully shooing him off but he was just waiting for me to leave to resume his scavenging, at least that's what I hope he was doing, 9 times out of 10 black bears are scavengers but there are many documented cases of them becoming predatory...
 
DustyGmt said:
I was doing some electrical work outside today and heard something behind me, about 15 paces away there he was, staring at me. He looked at me for a moment and proceeded on his mission to knock over some trashcans and absconded with a bag. 5 minutes later, once again, back for the second bag. I made noise and tried to stir him back up the bank but he wasnt really afraid, I was thinking about the fact that my gun was about 20 paces away in my car and what I would do if he was more aggressive or determined.

It's always a shame when we have to interfere with nature and shoot nuisance wildlife. Always makes me cringe when some idiot is out there feeding bears and getting close. Might as well sign its death warrant.
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He stood there about 50 feet up on the bank watching for the rest of the time I was there after successfully shooing him off but he was just waiting for me to leave to resume his scavenging, at least that's what I hope he was doing, 9 times out of 10 black bears are scavengers but there are many documented cases of them becoming predatory...
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I so agree with you GARBAGE KILLS BEARS.
we need to take responsibility for our actions. Securing garbage cans, not feeding wildlife (this can include bird feeders), and giving animals space.
I asked a Biologist in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park how many of the Bears leave the park? He responded all of them. With the communities growing around the Park bears go into the communities looking for easy meals.
We need to keep bears/ourselves safe by limiting bears access to those easy meals.
 
Terry G said:
I keep going there because they're nice people and the Fishing is great. As far as the gun laws, it's their country. I abide.
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I fully grasp that "its their country" and I abide by their laws by not spending my money there !.

My fear is that an incident [ ANY incident will do ] will occur while I am on that side of the border and then " THEY SHUT DOWN THE BRIDGES ".

I am stranded in a 'foreign' country !

And having been a cop on this side of that border,that happen often enough for me to not bother going as often as I would otherwise..

Feeding the dog,cat,goldfish.Needing to get medications,Family needs or requirements, = the list is great as to why I need and expect to go home when I so choose.

Besides,I do not want my safety to be in the hands of others.

Sorry for the hijack,but it is a VERY sore point with me,we used to even go to Canada with our guns on [ no,not declared ] back a few million years ago !.

And anyone that takes joy,or intentionally kills any critter without license or need = is a turd !.
 
MaxP said:
So does this make hunters “turds?” I ask because hardly anyone subsistence hunts anymore, so that eliminates need. Sorry, just trying to understand your last declaration.
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I am not in agreement with you.

Many do substance hunt in my part of the world [ western NYS ].

If not for venison etc,they would not feed their familys well at all.

And they are very good hunters [ and yes poachers ],as they do not want to lose any game.

I am a hunter and can afford to pass up a shot [ and yes,I do ] fairly often.

But my survival does not depend on the shot I pass.

The musk ox was 'that' shot.

And I would bet anything that the HUNTER that took that shot was not proud of his bad placement.

Fact is he is a real hunter and I am sure was very upset about that shot.

BUT he could not take that shot back,and 35 yards is not a long shot to a avid bow hunter either !
 
scaatylobo said:
And anyone that takes joy,or intentionally kills any critter without license or need = is a turd !.
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I didnt really take this statement to be aimed at hunters. Hunters can be vital to healthy herds and less collisions on the road and game conservation in general.

I agree, I know too many people with the mentality of "if it comes on MY property and is the slightest bother I'm grabbing the 12ga". Just chest thumping macho crap from people who enjoy killing animals and swerve toward the raccoon in the road. These people can steer clear of me.

A contractor once told me a story about how he intentionally caught an otter with a fishing pole and hooked it in the mouth and reveled in the joy of watching it struggle. How impressive, you needlessly caused suffering for an animal that you had no business interfering with...clown

I dont like idiots, never have. I remember as a youngster seeing some of the older neighborhood kids trying to climb up a tree to down a nest of baby birds and were chucking things at it, I responded with launching an unrelenting barrage of asphalt chunks at the kids and laughed as they scrambled down the tree and ran home scared. They thought I was a psycho.... Mom was proud. Lol
 
Glad the OP was able to promptly respond to an emergency and take care of business. Sorry about the dog, but it would have been much more horrible had the bear grabbed one of the children in the neighborhood. That would have made the shot even more necessary, but at the same time a whole lot more difficult.
 
daniel craig said:
Classic case of the tool you have is infinitely better than the one you don’t.

Good job mate!
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I remember an article by Peter Capstick Hathaway over 40 years ago. He was treed by a Cape Buffalo with no help nearby. He took the buffalo out with a 357.

IIRC he only had 6 rounds in the gun and no reload.
 
Buzznrose said:
With extremely few exceptions, we all participate in this to one degree or another, unless your definition of “critter” is extremely limited...
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I have to question your post here.

If " And anyone that takes joy,or intentionally kills any critter without license or need = is a turd !." that is not perfectly clear = then please do explain to this old man what you mean.

IF,License OR Need does not cover all,I do not get your meaning.

I totally enjoy my hunts,but I take no joy in killing,I hunt for meat and do so lawfully.
 
Glad the OP maned up and got er done.
If I had my Drothers , I’d Drother pack my revolver but hey whatever ya gotta do ya do.......
J
 
scaatylobo said:
I have to question your post here.

If " And anyone that takes joy,or intentionally kills any critter without license or need = is a turd !." that is not perfectly clear = then please do explain to this old man what you mean.

IF,License OR Need does not cover all,I do not get your meaning.

I totally enjoy my hunts,but I take no joy in killing,I hunt for meat and do so lawfully.
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Ever killed a random snake in the back yard? Shot gophers, prairie dogs, or ground hogs? Maybe set traps for mice or rats? Maybe went fishing and randomly caught and wasted trash fish like suckers or carp? Maybe shot a coon who kept digging in the trash or a fox who raided the chickens?

All these situation one can be resolved without killing the offending “critters”.

All I’m saying....be it a skunk or a white tail deer, they are both critters...
 
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