Del-Ton AR-15 20" Government Profile Rifle Kit

[McAngus]

I am considering buying this kit. If AR experts could please chime in on the good and the bad. Why would you buy this or not buy this?

As for me:
I want 20" because I want to shoot 300+ yards.
This will not be a self defense, SHTF or hunting rifle, but still having forward assist and dust cover is better than not having them.
1/9 twist is NOT a concern for me as long as those cheap steel 55gr 223 can do fine at 300+ yards.
I like the barrel is Manganese Phosphate, which I understand will last longer without sacrificing accuracy.
Not too picky about furniture, won't be adding anything except iron sights, yes I am trying to do long range with iron sights only.
If it matters, this kit will go on either an Anderson or PTAC lower receiver.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/61...overnment-contour-barrel?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Found the sale on slickguns.com, want to give the site credit
http://www.slickguns.com/product/del-ton-20-government-profile-rifle-kit-47699#comments

 

[MachIVshooter]

It is a lower end kit; don't expect to be winning any matches with it. I have one built with DTI 20" LW barrel; the FSB was canted about 2°.

1/9 twist is NOT a concern for me as long as those cheap steel 55gr 223 can do fine at 300+ yards

What do you consider "fine"? The bullets will get there, but you'd better have appropriate expectations for using one of the cheapest 20" barrels out there and feeding it crap ammo.

 

[Fishbed77]

For the money, I'd definitely look into a BCM or PSA 20" upper. Either will be higher quality.

I like the barrel is Manganese Phosphate, which I understand will last longer without sacrificing accuracy.

This is pretty much the lowest-end finish for an AR barrel.

It may last longer than an unfinished barrel, but that's about it. If you are really looking for accuracy paired with long life, you should be looking first at stainless steel, followed by nitride/melonite, followed by chrome lining (which really degrades accuracy less than you would think).

 

[HammsBeer]

If it will just be a bench gun, and you're dead set on a 20", get a heavy barrel. The gov profile puts the thickness at the wrong end of the barrel. And stainless or chrome lined.

I've got .gov and lightweight profile barrels, and the 16" LW just carry and point so much better and about a pound lighter.

 

[NWcityguy2]

The barrel has the phosphating on the outside, not the inside. Same with PSA and BCM. It is a good finish for non-stainless barrels. Tough, but not pretty. The inside of the barrel is unlined steel.

If you plan on shooting more than several thousand than a chrome lined barrel will outlast an unlined one. 1:9" will work fine for 55gr bullets, which should have no problem hitting a man sized target at 300m. There isn't much point to going all out on accuracy if you plan on pairing it with iron sights, as they will be the limiting factor (but maybe not with cheapo steel cased ammo). With quality ammo though, the AR15 can generally out-shoot its sights.

I have bought a couple things Del-ton. One was a barrel which shot some bullets MOA, but my mainstay bullet 3 MOA, so I ended up replacing it. Not all barrels are going to shoot every bullet well. I've also bought some small parts from them, which they probably didn't make, they were fine too. Del-ton is a good entry level kit from a company that doesn't have a long history of cutting every corner they can. It isn't something you will need to replace as your shooting skill grows.

 

[gotigers]

1:9 twist in a gov 20".... not interested without being able to shoot the 75 or 77 grains.

 

[NWcityguy2]

Lots of 1:9" barrels will shoot 75-77gr bullets. My Del-ton did. What ranges are you shooting at? Outside of competition, most people vastly overestimate how effective 75-77gr bullets are at fighting the wind compared to 68-69gr bullets. It has far more to do with the perception that 1:7" is better than 1:9", compared with anything the bullets do in flight.

 

[dvdcrr]

I bought a 20" delton upper gov profile a few years ago. I put a floating forend on it. I use a SSA-E trigger. With Federal 55 gr. SP I can rapidly empty a mag at a 6" 200 yd. gong and ring the middle of it with each shot. Very impressive.

 

[Ibmikey]

I have Del Ton lightweight and heavy carbines, the LW is a fun rifle to shoot and handle. It matains high standing among my 25 AR's. The heavy barrel is a tack driver (after an ALG ACT fire control group) and a wonderful bench rifle but too heavy for this old guy to want to pack for long periods. Both my Del Ton rifles are chrome lined mid length gas and reflect care in assembly.

 

[Archangel14]

For the price of BCM 20 inch upper, with the discounted BCG and charging handle, spend the extra money.

 

[Mayvik]

I went with a Fulton Armory upper for my 20" A2. Very happy with it and not brutally expensive. Keep an eye out as they have some decent sales for Vet/Mem day.

 

[henschman]

I am considering buying this kit. If AR experts could please chime in on the good and the bad. Why would you buy this or not buy this?

There isn't much good to say about it, other than that it is a gun that would probably shoot bullets most of the time, and would be accurate enough to hit torso sized steel with TulAmmo at the distance you are wanting to shoot at. Also it has a warranty (which you might well need).

As for the bad, it is a low-end AR from a manufacturer who is not highly regarded when it comes to quality. No, that barrel does not have anything that would lend to longer life. It is plain 4140 chrome moly steel, which gives the shortest life of any of the common barrel types.

As for why I would or wouldn't buy it, there is no way in hell I would buy it, because for $70 more, you can get this kit from PSA, which is better in every way: http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...-hammer-forged-chrome-lined-mp-rifle-kit.html

If we were talking about a several hundred dollar price difference, I would say go for the cheapie for the relatively non-demanding role you have in mind... but when you can have this much ridiculously better of a rifle for just $70 more bucks, it really is a no-brainer. That is very cheap quality assurance.

 

[d2wing]

I have one in Govt profile that is very nice and shoot under .75 MOA with factory 55 grain. I am thinking that some naysayers have never even seen one in person.
I bought one with the idea of a barrel upgrade but it was not needed. I am very happy with it.
A dealer that specializes in AR's told me most AR's buy parts from the same suppliers and they all are to the same specs. Barrel quality can vary though.

 

[redmule]

Bought the same kit from Midway several years ago. Added a Nikon P-223 3x9 scope in Nikon rings. Put an inexpensive free float hand guard and a 2-stage trigger. With the right loads it will stay well under 2" at 200 yards from a rest. The rifle does every thing I need an AR to do. Fun gun at the range and a good light weight varmint rifle.

 

[NWcityguy2]

I think this is where people error in calling some kits, or specifically Del-ton, below average. Too much attention gets focused on AR conforming to a certain stereotype and not enough gets placed on actual use.

Here is a good example on a hunting forum of a mil-spec obsessed shooter completely destroying a reasonable discussion about Del-ton. http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2291791&page=2

The reality is, Del-ton makes an accurate barrel for a very good price. They are good options to look at if that is priority #1 and money is tight.

 

[Archangel14]

I'm wondering, what is it about Delton uppers that makes people think that they will fail with some hard use. Do Delton products have such a reputation based in fact?

 

[NWcityguy2]

Years ago they made some bolts that sheared off their lugs. There are still probably a few pictures floating around the web of them. They aren't an issue anymore and Del-ton will replace them for free.

Criticism of Del-ton is the same generic criticism that is leveled at any company that sells an AR without the features of a Colt/BCM/DD etc.

 

[jobu07]

You probably don't have to worry about lugs shearing off on this one. From the parts listed it looks like the kit doesn't come with a bolt/carrier or charging handle.

 

[natman]

You probably don't have to worry about lugs shearing off on this one. From the parts listed it looks like the kit doesn't come with a bolt/carrier or charging handle.

From the Midway listing:

This Del-Ton Rifle Kit includes everything needed to turn your Stripped AR-15 Lower Receiver into a complete, fully functional rifle. This kit features an assembled Del-Ton A3 Flat-Top Upper Receiver forged from 7075 T6 Aluminum with a 20" Government Contour Barrel, Rifle-Length Gas System, F-Marked Front Sight Assembly, 2-Piece A2-Style Handguards and an A2 Flash Hider. The barrel's 5.56x45mm NATO Chamber, M4 Feed Ramps and 1 in 9" Twist rifling ensure reliable feeding and functioning with a wide variety of both commercial and surplus ammunition. The mil-spec Bolt Carrier is machined from 8620 Steel for strength, incorporates a properly staked, chrome lined gas key, and houses a Carpenter 158 Steel Bolt that has been High Pressure Tested and Magnetic Particle Inspected to guarantee a consistent, defect-free part.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/61...overnment-contour-barrel?cm_vc=ProductFinding

The parts list is for the LOWER parts, so it's not surprising that the bolt carrier group is not listed there.

 

[jobu07]

I suppose your right. I visually inspected the photo and then quickly looked the list over and didn't see the BCG listed.

Attention to details I suppose...

 

[35 Whelen]

I'm not a big AR guy, but a few years ago I realized I could build one for about $400. I bought a lower and found the cheapest kit available was a Del-Ton Dissipater from Midway. Also all I could get was one of the ridiculous collapsible stocks, which don't exactly lend themselves to accuracy. Anyhow, I found the rifle to be acceptably accurate even with PPU factory ammo grouping right at 1 1/2" at 100 yds.:



Once I switched to a standard fixed stock, and handloads, groups improved even more. I tried this set up at our local High Power match (I normally shoot a Swiss K-31) and shot my highest offhand score to date; a 186.

Regarding twist and heavy bullets, a buddy of mine who is intimately familiar AR's and their long range accuracy with heavy bullets and a 1-in-9 twist told me this; 75 gr. Hornady A-Max; won't work as they're too long for a 1-in-9. 75 gr. Hornady Match HP, MAYBE. He related that some barrels with said twist would stabilize them, some wouldn't.

So if the OP never intends to shoot past 300, he'd be well served with something like a 69 gr. HPBT should he ever choose to handload.

35W

 

[strambo]

The PSA linked is a much better value. The FN barrel alone is a massive upgrade from the Delton and is what is used in military M16 A2s and A4s, well worth the slightly higher cost IMO, not to mention the twist rate to stabilize heavier bullets. With a $40 Anderson lower, your at $600 plus shipping and xfer fee on the lower, darn good price for that quality level.

 

[Archangel14]

The PSA linked is a much better value. The FN barrel alone is a massive upgrade from the Delton and is what is used in military M16 A2s and A4s

I don't disagree with you that FN makes a highly regarded barrel, but I think the terminology that we use has a real world effect on opinions. Is the FN barrel really a "massive upgrade" from Delton's offerings? I mean, that's the point on my OP. What really makes a FN barrel "massively" better than what is being offer on Del Ton's 20 upper, keeping in mind the nature of the needs of the typical civilian end user? Is the Del Ton barrel going to melt, break in half, just suddenly stop working with some hard use? Is it a demonstrably inferior product that cannot serve the needs of the weekend shooter/hunter? Is it only capable of shooting 6-7 inch groups? I would imagine that when an AR fails, it often has little to do with the barrel, but falls more to thinks like extractor, sheared bolts, ect.

I don't know, maybe it is all about the chrome......

 

[strambo]

Well, OP wants to shoot over 300 yds so the 1/9 twist is already a poor choice, no reason to be limited to lighter bullets even if the bulk of shooting is with cheaper 55s. The FN CHF chrome lined barrel will provide way more barrel life and is more likely to be chambered properly than the Del-ton. I think it is a massive upgrade even if the OP feels they don't need the extra quality (which is OK, he asked for opinions though and the PSA option is a heck of a good one).

If the OP didn't mention a 20" for shooting over 300 then it wouldn't be as big of a deal, but I'd still take the higher quality for not much more coin. It isn't like PSA is expensive, just offers a lot more quality for what is still a budget price point.

 

[NWcityguy2]

The FN CHF barrel will offer a massive upgrade in round count, if that is something the OP is interested it, for a $160 price increase (as of today). Beyond that I think, in my competitive shooting experience, that strambo is over-estimating all the other benefits he is point out. Accuracy, twist rate, chamber dimensions (a bit of an lol moment right there), none of them will be a massive upgrade.

I would like to see you demonstrate in real world shooting the massive upgrades that you are talking about. Show me the 69gr bullet that struggles past 300 yards.